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Thread: Turkey 2018

  1. #16
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    So the Trump administration doesn't say a thing about the 2 US scientist being held in Turkey but imposes sanctions because of a preacher that has been living there for over 20 years.
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  2. #17
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    So the Trump administration doesn't say a thing about the 2 US scientist being held in Turkey but imposes sanctions because of a preacher that has been living there for over 20 years.
    The scientist

    http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/...5-years-prison

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/n...stor-s-n895681

    And a professor

    https://www.delawareonline.com/story...016/779352001/

  3. #18
    FreeGeneral Senior Contributor Big K's Avatar
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    well well, let me give some insights from here.


    first of all if you believe that all these are because of a pastor lived 20+ yrs in here, you are sorely mistaken and/or biaised


    oh before we begin lets not forget that Erdogan was heavily supported by USA. He was the first person to meet the American President without having any official title

    before that there is a meeting with Richard Perle in January 2002

    United States, back then, should support the Seculars not the Islamists. lets not forget this.

    now,

    Turkish economy was lucky in past 16 yrs. Erdogan builded a reputation on this and the economic program put in effect by Kemal Dervis -this was Ecevit's last move to counter economic crisis of 2001. Until mid 2000's AKP kept that program and it worked with the lucky economical climate of the world.

    but EVERYONE on the opposition told that this is an illusion, we were relying the hot money flowing seemingly endlessly towards emerging markets... now it came to an end

    Turkish economy is not healthy thats for sure, nobody denies that.

    BUT

    Turkish economy does not deserve THAT low values of TRY. that is also for sure


    Trump, IMO,

    is an other Erdogan, a more powerful Erdogan with all the strength of USA and this is very dangerous for all of us. He is a populist and knows (or by chance) very well populist rhetoric.

    he is pushing Turkey dangerously. Even i got offended by some of his sayings.

    Erdogan started to gain more support because of Trumps attitude, F-35 deal and etc.

    Plus American attitude towards Germany, Italian ministers voice who told that "same can happen to Italy" also causes Turkish people think that "US is crossing the line against whole world and we are not alone" and this is dangerous too.

    Erdogan, with that kind of support can make us leave NATO & Western alliance (oh you can bet that he would be a HERO in half of the poor people who are not even aware what is happening)

    if you think that a NATO without Turkey, well you are very close to that. if not well i am sorry it can happen.

    oh btw,

    Fethullah Gulen IS an evil man and i am not an Erdogan supporter...
    Last edited by Big K; 18 Aug 18, at 16:22.
    Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.

  4. #19
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Hi Kerem

    What is the deal with Gullen. The man sets up countless schools in Turkey and abroad. These are good schools. Then one fine day he finds himself on the wrong side. Everybody even remotely associated is then considered an enemy. Big purge happens. Similar to how seculars see the Muslim brotherhood as a threat

    Is it a case of islamist vs islamist ? Erdogan vs Gullen
    Last edited by Double Edge; 18 Aug 18, at 17:58.

  5. #20
    FreeGeneral Senior Contributor Big K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Hi Kerem

    What is the deal with Gullen. The man sets up countless schools in Turkey and abroad. These are good schools. Then one fine day he finds himself on the wrong side. Everybody even remotely associated is then considered an enemy. Big purge happens. Similar to how seculars see the Muslim brotherhood as a threat

    Is it a case of islamist vs islamist ? Erdogan vs Gullen
    Yes once Erdogan & Gulen were side by side against seculars. after a while gulen wanted too much power and Erdogan did not allow it of course.

    but this is not that simple.

    Gulen is evil & dangerous. I know this from first hand experience.

    NEVER fall to his "moderate, humble" behaviour. he is like a spider waiting fo bite.

    its hard to believe that a clerc with NO education of clergy nor any education other than elementry school WITH NO INCOME WHATSOEVER can build such an empire. this issue is still to be solved. my bet is that he was/is supported various secret services from time to time.

    at first they locate two types of youngsters.

    first type is the intelligent but poor one. this one will be supported in any way you can imagine. he is to be put into key positions in where ever needed. like time bomb.

    second one is the morons with poersonality disorders (but rich ones -of them was my cousin) they are the money resources. they are in search of their own way,

    they are not radicals so Fethullahs moderate approach of Islam acts like a flypaper.

    Gulen becomes their ONLY real authority in almost everything from their marriage (yes they are pre-arranged) to their votes.

    this imam (with only elementry shool education) is a good speaker for feeble mindeds. my cousin tried to convince me but well... i guess i was rather... non-believer for their taste.

    fethullahs aim is to create a giant web of community whose members will be willing to do almost ANYTHING a) to repay their debts to the Gulen b) to do the right thing and to help the "cause"

    gulen also uses Mustafa Kemal Ataturk to persuade seculars (this secularity issue is a complex one. I am secular and also a muslim you see?)

    they corrupt every system that they touch to manipulate thing in their way

    I am first hand witness of his wrong doings... there are millions of things that can be given as exemples.

    as a proud Wabbit and a person who despise Erdogan, please take my word on this.

    i got a way for Trump to make things perfect and got all he wants.

    get rid of gulen in any way you can.

    make a favor to the world
    Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    So the Trump administration doesn't say a thing about the 2 US scientist being held in Turkey but imposes sanctions because of a preacher that has been living there for over 20 years.
    The whole theater seems to be set up to resolve in October, for the maximal midterm effect (though with the increasingly weird things coming out of 1600 Penn Ave, I don't think a 45 'victory' would register with even the most diehard Infowars cultist by then).

  7. #22
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    He didn't mention, and the Republican Congress didn't mention/include the scientist/professor because they don't fit the narrative. The Pres and republicans can say they they are standing up for "Christian Values" and fighting christian persecution by Muslims.
    that plays to their evangelical base. And gets them votes
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  8. #23
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    He didn't mention, and the Republican Congress didn't mention/include the scientist/professor because they don't fit the narrative. The Pres and republicans can say they they are standing up for "Christian Values" and fighting christian persecution by Muslims.
    that plays to their evangelical base. And gets them votes
    The scientists probably believe in evolution and that the world is more than 6000 years old.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  9. #24
    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    So the Trump administration doesn't say a thing about the 2 US scientist being held in Turkey but imposes sanctions because of a preacher that has been living there for over 20 years.
    1. Pastors play well to the base.
    2. Erdogan went out of his way to make it clear that this guy is a hostage of sorts (like the two Greek soldiers, German journalist).
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

  10. #25
    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    EXECUTIVE Published August 20, 2018
    Trump rejects Turkey's offer to release American pastor if US drops probe of Turkish bank: report
    By Lukas Mikelionis | Fox News

    Turkey rejects US appeal to end pastor's house arrest
    Rich Edson reports on the escalating tensions over the detention of Pastor Andrew Brunson.

    The Trump administration rebuffed Turkey’s offer to release detained American pastor Andrew Brunson if the U.S. halts the investigation into Turkish bank Halkbank, The Wall Street Journal reported Sunday.

    Continue Reading Below


    The Turkish government agreed to drop terrorism charges against the pastor in exchange of the U.S. government dropping fines totaling billions of dollars against the bank. A senior White House official said the offer was rejected.

    “A real NATO ally wouldn’t have arrested Brunson in the first place,” the official told the Journal.

    Brunson has been detained in Turkey since December 2016 on espionage and terror-related charges after being accused of helping a group that allegedly coordinated the failed July 2016 military coup in the country. Both Brunson and the U.S. vehemently deny the accusations.

    The White House has been clashing with Turkey and pressuring Ankara to release the pastor. The administration sanctioned Turkey's justice and interior ministers last month and doubled tariffs on steel and aluminum earlier this month in a bid to get Turkey to release the pastor.

    “I have just authorized a doubling of Tariffs on Steel and Aluminum with respect to Turkey as their currency, the Turkish Lira, slides rapidly downward against our very strong Dollar! Aluminum will now be 20% and Steel 50%,” Trump tweeted earlier this month. “Our relations with Turkey are not good at this time!”


    Continue Reading Below


    The standoff between Turkey and the U.S. led to steep economic decline in Turkey. The Turkish lira, tumbled from 4.7 to the dollar to a depleted 6.4 to the dollar, for the first time in history breaking the 6 mark.

    TRUMP TARIFFS IN RETALIATION FOR JAILED AMERICAN PASTOR SEND TURKEY’S ECONOMY PLUNGING

    Trump pressed the Turkish government again on Thursday, saying the U.S. won’t pay anything for the release of the pastor.

    “Turkey has taken advantage of the United States for many years. They are now holding our wonderful Christian Pastor, who I must now ask to represent our Country as a great patriot hostage. We will pay nothing for the release of an innocent man, but we are cutting back on Turkey!” Trump tweeted on Thursday.


    Earlier this month, U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo also pressed the Turkish government, saying the sanctions on Turkish officials mean the White House is serious about the immediate release of Brunson and others.

    “The Turks were on notice that the clock had run out and it was time for Pastor Brunson to be returned and I hope they'll see this for what it is: a demonstration that we're very serious,” he said. “Brunson needs to come home as do all the Americans being held by the Turkish government.”

    “Pretty straightforward. They've been holding these folks for a long time. These are innocent people,” he added, referring to several other detained local employees of the U.S. diplomatic missions in the Turkey.

    Fox News’ Hollie McKay and The Associated Press contributed to this report
    ....
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Didn't stop him imposing tariffs on the rest of the world. We will discover these limits more with time if there aren't any existing examples
    Clearly the US president has some control over US foreign policy. But as a 'for instance', the US president has no direct control over interest rates, where as Recep specifically does and there in lies part of Turkey's current problem. Trump has made similar statements concerning interest rates, but he has no direct ability to prevent them from being raised. Hence my statement that he lacks the power to enforce enough of his will to do further damage to the US economy; if he had Erdogan's level of economic power (and also media control) I'm quite certain he was could irreparable damage.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skywatcher View Post
    The whole theater seems to be set up to resolve in October, for the maximal midterm effect (though with the increasingly weird things coming out of 1600 Penn Ave, I don't think a 45 'victory' would register with even the most diehard Infowars cultist by then).
    The third of so of the US that solidly supports Trump will never have their minds changed regardless of outcome. Anything that goes wrong is the fault of the deep state and democrats. Anything that goes right is due to Trump. Recep has similar situation only with far more political power after the constitutional amendments. I sincerely doubt there will ever be another presidential election while he is alive.

  13. #28
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh View Post
    Clearly the US president has some control over US foreign policy. But as a 'for instance', the US president has no direct control over interest rates, where as Recep specifically does and there in lies part of Turkey's current problem. Trump has made similar statements concerning interest rates, but he has no direct ability to prevent them from being raised. Hence my statement that he lacks the power to enforce enough of his will to do further damage to the US economy; if he had Erdogan's level of economic power (and also media control) I'm quite certain he was could irreparable damage.
    Very good

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh View Post
    The third of so of the US that solidly supports Trump will never have their minds changed regardless of outcome. Anything that goes wrong is the fault of the deep state and democrats. Anything that goes right is due to Trump. Recep has similar situation only with far more political power after the constitutional amendments. I sincerely doubt there will ever be another presidential election while he is alive.
    He'd realize that, if he had halfway rational or competent pollsters who aren't spinning sugar plum dreams of a Red Wave in the midterm elections (he probably thinks that a Turkey 'win' will rally the base, never mind that the whole sorry affair is a lot less visible than that Singapore Summit with Kim).

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