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Thread: China v USSR 1989

  1. #31
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    It's not a dictator losing a gigantic chunk of territory. It's the dictator acknowledging that he gave up the fight for that territory. Stalin did not give up the Soviet territories under Nazi occupation though the military effect of the Partisans can be described as miniscue.

    A dictator needs 2 of 3 three things to stay in power: support of the people, money, and the army. Within context, if the army was still willing to fight to reclaim lost territories and the dictator is unwilling, then the army would either accident the dictator or more likely shoot him as a traitor.
    Does this explain Chiang's plan to retake China between 1949 and 1975?
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    Does this explain Chiang's plan to retake China between 1949 and 1975?
    CKS was delusional. The US was not going to let him. However, during the GPCR, there was a strong chance that the PRC could erupt into full blown Civil War and an organized KMT army could take advantage of such a disarray.

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    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    CKS was delusional. The US was not going to let him. However, during the GPCR, there was a strong chance that the PRC could erupt into full blown Civil War and an organized KMT army could take advantage of such a disarray.
    Oh no, I don't mean if he had a decent chance of retaking China. I'm wondering if he had to at least pretend to have a plan to retake China to keep his army happy and his people motivated.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    Oh no, I don't mean if he had a decent chance of retaking China. I'm wondering if he had to at least pretend to have a plan to retake China to keep his army happy and his people motivated.
    No, he didn't have to pretend because the decision to invade the ML would have been made in Washington and not Taipei. Every single one of his Generals knew it and so did CKS.

    Besides, no one thought CKS a military genius, not even his generals.

  5. #35
    Senior Contributor Triple C's Avatar
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    One interpretation of CKS's intent was to justify the military's size and power. The internal security apparatus of CKS were military intelligence units.
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    -Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    CKS was delusional. The US was not going to let him. However, during the GPCR, there was a strong chance that the PRC could erupt into full blown Civil War and an organized KMT army could take advantage of such a disarray.
    My reading of the GPCR era PLA leadership (MR and up) is that they would have quickly set aside domestic differences in the event of any coherent ROC/KMT force posing an actual threat to PRC national integrity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    My reading of the GPCR era PLA leadership (MR and up) is that they would have quickly set aside domestic differences in the event of any coherent ROC/KMT force posing an actual threat to PRC national integrity.
    By the time anyone outside of the PRC knew what a mess the GPCR had made of China, the Sino-Soviet Split had errupted into a full border war. The PRC became a defacto US ally. CKS's wet dreams of reconquering China was sidelined in the more pragmatic WWIII prep work.

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    Come to think of this, this would have been a PLA nightmare. They were preparing for a war against the USSR. A sudden offensive by the KMT would have left them both physically and pyschologically oriented the wrong way. And they could not withdraw enough armies from the Sino-Soviet border in case the Soviet Army does strike, in essence a two front war.

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    but as you said, if CKS comes over the fence it's because the US let him.

    the USSR would probably look upon this...unfavorably. Taipei would probably go up in a mushroom cloud.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    Eric, recall the timeline. Brezhnev asked Nixon for a joint strike.

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    yes, but a joint US-USSR strike on PRC nuclear facilities is different than re-introduction of Nationalist armies into the ML.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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