"The Senate illegally elected Pompey" dispute.

**snapper** · 01 Jul 18,, 23:31

No they did not because the Senate never elected Consuls.

**WABs_OOE** · 01 Jul 18,, 23:46

To put it simply, the Senate was above the Law. And that is your complete failure in understanding all of this.

If you are going by the letter of the law, then you will have to go back to the Marius Reforms when the Senate all but acted only they determine what laws to follow. Since Marius and until Augustus, the Senate, and not the law, determines who is to be Consuls. This was backed up by the fact that Pompey had thugs in the streets to force both the people to vote the way he wanted.

Let's not forget that Pompey was in fact ignoring the Senate in the first place as part of the First Triumpheret where Caeser had the NW, Pompey, the SC, and Cassius, the East. With Cassius's defeat against Parthia, both Pompey and Caeser was put on a collision course. There were divisions within the Senate and compromises were negotiated up the ying-yang with both Caesar and Pompey giving up their legions on the same day. Depending on whose stories you believe, either Caesar or Pompey changed the terms of that deal.

Shortly after, those senators supporting Caesar were either on the run and in hiding. The Senate, therefore, put forth Pompey as the only obvious candidate and with Pompey's on leave legionaires running around, the result was obvious. There was nothing legal about any of this.

**snapper** · 02 Jul 18,, 00:00

But this is "whataboutism"... did the Senate (which was NOT above the law) "elect Pompey"?

**WABs_OOE** · 02 Jul 18,, 02:24

Originally Posted by snapper

But this is "whataboutism"... did the Senate (which was NOT above the law)

Yeah, well nobody punished them for it starting with giving Marius a 2nd term, giving Sulla unlimited powers, and again all the fiascos that Pompey and his thugs pulled.

Originally Posted by snapper

"elect Pompey"?

If you want to pendant about it, no, the Senate did not cast the ballots to "elect Pompey." But that is only if you want to be pendant about it. Just about every historian noted the Senate left no doubt who was going to be counsel; especially with Pompey's thugs making sure the votes go their way ... thugs bought by Senator monies.

**snapper** · 02 Jul 18,, 19:42

Originally Posted by WABs_OOE

Yeah, well nobody punished them for it starting with giving Marius a 2nd term, giving Sulla unlimited powers, and again all the fiascos that Pompey and his thugs pulled.

Marius and Sulla were tyrants at times - at least Sulla had the decency to 'retire', but we are not arguing about the previous.

Originally Posted by WABs_OOE

If you want to pendant about it, no, the Senate did not cast the ballots to "elect Pompey." But that is only if you want to be pendant about it. Just about every historian noted the Senate left no doubt who was going to be counsel; especially with Pompey's thugs making sure the votes go their way ... thugs bought by Senator monies.

Well partly right... Pompeius was not made Consul. The Senate could not elect him Consul. They asked him to command the troops in defence of the Republic. I am not denying that it was highly partisan or that the Senate probably took bribes or that Roman politics in the whole late Republic was full of murder even (take the Gracchi) but I am pleased we have our facts straight on the Senate "illegally electing Pompeius Magnus".

**HenryAngelic** · 17 Aug 18,, 12:35

"Well partly right... Pompeius was not made Consul. The Senate could not elect him Consul. They asked him to command the troops in defence of the Republic. I am not denying that it was highly partisan or that the Senate probably took bribes or that Roman politics in the whole late Republic was full of murder even (take the Gracchi) but I am pleased we have our facts straight on the Senate "illegally electing Pompeius Magnus"."

Hmm, good point.