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Thread: For Pakistan, terrorism is a state-sponsored business

  1. #46
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Agree with both. The military is very clear on what's going on there. First is a good explainer for people who don't know better.

  2. #47
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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  3. #48
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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  4. #49
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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  5. #50
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Last edited by Oracle; 26 Jul 18, at 06:50.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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  6. #51
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    From the Wire link -

    And what does the PA say about the TTP? That India funds it and Afghanistan shelters it. IIRC, I guessed on the possibility of the Peshawar school attack being a hatchet job of the PA/ISI. Seems that is the case. These people will never change.

    The story that killed Saleem Shahzad

    Pakistan’s Spies Tied to Slaying of a Journalist

    Pakistani journalist Saleem Shahzad found dead

    The Journalist And the Spies (Dexter is the guy whom Shahzad contacted to get him out of Pak before he was killed)
    Contd. from post # 36, so the PA/ISI nurture the TTP because the bogey of a terrorist organisation hurting/killings Pakistanis and supported by US/India/Israel, and sheltered by the Afghans are necessary to keep the military's discourse in Pakistan running, and hence their business and the power it brings. Shahzad found that out and had to be murdered.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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  7. #52
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Been a while since i heard anything from Chris. Her twitter feed is so anti-Trump i don't bother with it much

    Some authors have suggested that the MML reflects Pakistan’s sincere desire to defang its nastiest militant group by shunting its stalwarts and cadres into a useful political role, whereby it can counter the army’s civilian enemies within Pakistan.

    Below, I argue that Pakistan’s move is much more profound than a quest to find an alternative to demilitarizing the LeT/JuD or even manipulating electoral outcomes.

    I contend that the formation of the MML is part of a more serious effort to use the pro-state organization against the myriad militant groups tearing the state apart, while also investing in another political alternative to the current political parties that will pay dividends over the longer time horizon.

    Based upon available information about the MML, its ties to the JuD and its mentorship by Pakistan’s security organizations, I reject the claim that the MML’s formation signals a new effort on the part of the Pakistani state to redirect JuD’s external militarism towards a new domesticated political role, and thus serves as a state-directed “de-radicalization” or “demobilization” effort to mainstream Islamist militants.

    I argue, instead, that the MML will be a complement to JuD’s efforts to stabilize Pakistan internally and enhance LeT’s external activities in the service of the deep state.
    That bolded but is important because that is exactly what it looks like from the outside.

    The underlined bit needs to be looked at more. I've always thought the LeT did some of this work already ie fighting other militant groups. But the thing is these militants move around. Their with one org today and another later on. So it can be pretty hard to preserve one and go after others. You either do nothing or very little which is what we've seen or go hammer & tongs at everybody which will not happen because it means the militants will unite and attack the state. Course the PA doesn't want to initiate these actions in the first place is the primary reason.

    Saeed’s release and his announcement of the MML’s formation was coincident with the U.S. Congress’ decision, under Pentagon pressure, to remove the requirement that Pakistan retard the activities of LeT/JuD as a precondition for American security assistance. This Congressional decision may reflect a bilateral understanding that Pakistan will not turn against the LeT. Oddly, despite Trump’s bluster about getting tough on Pakistan, Washington has been silent about these developments.
    remove the requirement ?!?

    Pentagon Forces US Congress to Drop Linkage of Pakistan Aid To LeT | The Wire | 17 Nov 2017

    This confuses me as i've heard LeT were also on the list as well for a while now. She goes on to say'..

    The odd timing of these events almost prompts the question of whether the Department of Defense cajoled the US Congress to remove the conditionality that Pakistan do more to combat the JuD/LeT with actual knowledge that the JuD was fielding the MML. No doubt Pakistani officials would have justified this move arguing that it was a “deradicalization” plan
    Last edited by Double Edge; 26 Jul 18, at 10:11.

  8. #53
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Been a while since i heard anything from Chris. Her twitter feed is so anti-Trump i don't bother with it much
    Agree with you about CFair. It gets tiring after a while, seeing her twitter posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    That bolded but is important because that is exactly what it looks like from the outside.

    The underlined bit needs to be looked at more. I've always thought the LeT did some of this work already ie fighting other militant groups. But the thing is these militants move around. Their with one org today and another later on. So it can be pretty hard to preserve one and go after others. You either do nothing or very little which is what we've seen or go hammer & tongs at everybody which will not happen because it means the militants will unite and attack the state. Course the PA doesn't want to initiate these actions in the first place is the primary reason.
    So, you also buy the theory floated by the PA/ISI that if they start taking actions against the terrorist groups they created, those might turn against the state? Well, Saleem Shahzad's expose about the PA/ISI nexus with the TTP should be an eye-opener.


    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    remove the requirement ?!?

    Pentagon Forces US Congress to Drop Linkage of Pakistan Aid To LeT | The Wire | 17 Nov 2017

    This confuses me as i've heard LeT were also on the list as well for a while now. She goes on to say'..
    I thought you knew that.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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  9. #54
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    So, you also buy the theory floated by the PA/ISI that if they start taking actions against the terrorist groups they created, those might turn against the state?
    yes, there will be several Peshawars going off. The state will win but there will be a stiff price to pay. Whoever orders it will be marked. We already have Indira & Rajiv as examples

    Once you dance with the devil you have to wait for the music to stop

    I thought you knew that.
    This wire article was missed at the time. i've always heard US reps include LeT in the list of orgs to go after.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 29 Jul 18, at 17:38.

  10. #55
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Last edited by Oracle; 29 Jul 18, at 15:27.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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  11. #56
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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  12. #57
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Didn't help Hafeez Saeed's party to get even one seat. That Barelvi Labbaik party seems to have faired better.

    Didn't help Imran get a majority so now he has to cobble a coalition to form govt.

    I suppose people are upset because Imran couldn't manage to get elected from his own constituency back in 2013. Then Imran lost to the PML-N candidate contesting from there : D

    Warning about Pakistan’s road ahead came from Bruce Riedel, a former CIA analyst and White House official, who took a dim view of the election of Khan, widely seen as a stooge of the Pakistani military, and a man he said blames Pakistan’s problems on America, and is the ''most anti-American politician in South Asia.''
    Imran is an army stooge. Nawaz was appointed CM of Punjab in 1985, another stooge. Took Nawaz around fifteen years to stand up to the amy. He did it a second time recently. And let's not forget Bhutto was Ayub's foreign minister. Yet another stooge who tried to go against the army as well and ended up going to the gallows.

    Imran marks a break with dynasty for whatever that is worth. No more Bhuttos & Sharifs in charge.

    ''Khan is an outspoken defender of the army and is closely aligned with the Islamist movements patronized by the ISI. He is a frequent critic of the United States which he says treats Pakistan like a ‘doormat’'', Riedel wrote in a commentary, while maintaining that there is ''compelling evidence'' that the army is supporting Khan, intimidating his opponents and suppressing the press to get him to power.

    Riedel pointed out that ''Imran Khan has said that it would be a ‘bitter pill’ to have to meet with Trump if he Khan is prime minister, but one he would swallow,'' while snarkily noting that ''He probably doesn’t have to worry. South Asia is not a priority for the Trump administration.''
    Then one expects a meeting with Trump to go badly.

    ''The president has made clear he wants to bring Americans home from Afghanistan and wash his hands of the war there. His hard-line rhetoric on Pakistan is unlikely to persuade Khan and the army to press the Taliban to peace negotiations. So far Trump has been all talk and no action about Pakistan’s ties to terrorism,'' the former CIA analyst wrote.
    Well, they did get put on the FATF greylist. That isn't quite nothing. If nothing gets delivered in another few months Trump will turn up the heat again. Imran will be the wrong person in charge then.

    ''None of that seems likely. Get ready for an uncharted future,'' Riedel concluded.
    That will be more the case for Pakistan if Imran can't get a hold on the economy
    Last edited by Double Edge; 30 Jul 18, at 06:36.

  13. #58

  14. #59
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    ^^2007 + 28 = 2035

    If Imran is still in office by then maybe he has something to worry about : D

    Nawaz Sharif’s proximity to Saudi Arabia is well known. By extension, the US sympathy and support for Nawaz Sharif cannot be denied. Nevertheless, post China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC), China’s meddling into Pakistani politics has considerably increased. From the recent chain of events, it is difficult not to deduce that

    the military + judiciary + Imran + China were arrayed against Nawaz + Saudi Arabia + US.

    Why China’s special emphasis on Pakistan? It is probably because the main threat to the CPEC is now from the Pashtuns.
    He is incorrect that China was arrayed against Nawaz. I posted an WOTR article that pointed out that China very much wanted Nawaz for a second term for the simple reason the Shariffs were better organised.

    If the threat to CPEC is from Pashtuns why isn't he mentioning that Imran is a Pathaan. That's yet another ethnic group that gets to rule Pakistan now apart from Punjabis & Sindhis

    The LeT candidates backed by the military fought under the banner of Allah-O-Akbar Tehreek. Hafiz Saeed’s son Hafiz Talha Saeed and son-in-law Hafiz Khalid Waleed also contested the elections. Though the LeT / JuD and Tehreek-e-Labaik contested 265 and 100 seats respectively, none of their candidates was close to victory. This was on the expected lines. These Deobandi and Barelvi radicals were fielded to nibble at the electoral support base of PML (N). Imran will always be indebted to these jihadi organizations for their valuable indirect support.
    What these outfits did was split the vote and the result is PML & PPP got fewer seats

    When Zardari made a strong move to bring the nuclear weapons of Pakistan under exclusive civilian control, the military-intelligence establishment of Pakistan staged 26/11.
    I've not heard this reason for 26/11 mentioned before. I thought they needed something spectacular to finish their pan India campaign as the previous attempts were running out of steam. From 2005 up to 26/11 there was a bombing somewhere every few months whose intensity & impact reduced gradually.

    Going by some Pakistani sources, the current hostility, rather enmity between Nawaz Sharif and the Military began after the surgical strikes. In the wake of these strikes, a high level meeting was held between the top civilian leadership and the military leadership. During this meeting, Nawaz Sharif’s brother Shahbaz Sharif, the CM of Punjab, is understood to have plainly conveyed that the military’s embrace of jihadis has put Pakistan in a diplomatic and economic fix. The civilian leaders insisted that Pakistan is becoming a pariah in the international arena. It may be mentioned that Shahbaz is considered to be endowed with great administrative acumen and is known for his integrity.
    I think its a co-incidence that this civil-military spat occurred a month after the surgical strike. This author suggests there is a cause & effect relation between the two.

    The enmity between Nawaz and the army i think stems from the fact that Nawaz wanted to reduce the army's stranglehold on the economy because the monopoly created hindered growth. If you want to go after the Pak deep state, then challenging their livelihood is one sure way
    Last edited by Double Edge; 30 Jul 18, at 09:58.

  15. #60
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Hmm, besides the Chinese it seems neither the Saudis or Iranians like him either

    How could they so blatantly rig the elections, pundits asked. Why him? Could they not see how the Chinese, the Saudis and even the Iranians had a problem with him?
    https://twitter.com/PMCocaineKhan

    Imran jokes

    Name:  imran.JPG
Views: 296
Size:  76.1 KB

    A man who has a severe drug habit has been chosen to head the country at a critical juncture in our history.
    Not good..
    Last edited by Double Edge; 31 Jul 18, at 23:39.

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