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  • #16
    Originally posted by Oracle View Post
    Who owns the guns and the dollars in Pakistan? The PA, so no, unless America thinks Pak should collapse for whatever reasons.
    It will cause friction between the two groups. Collapse is too strong a word.

    It always was.
    How do you explain them moving against Musharaf ? Could it be this isn't the first time their judiciary moved against a leader. There is supposed to be a balance of power between executive, legislature & judiciary. This is blatant overreach. Or are they making amends for their earlier infraction against Mushraraf. Quid pro quo.

    Panama papers was a godsend, they had a ready pretext. Earlier the judiciary were under dictators and had to do their bidding. Couldn't stop Zia.


    These intellectuals are right, but they don't matter. They can't change anything inside Pak, from the outside.
    You had asked me who one of them was. A Parsee. I cannot remember now where that post is.


    Without the PA/ISI, its killing tactics and hobnobbing with islamist terrorists, Pak could collapse any moment.
    Amazing how it still somehow continues to survive.

    #2. The religious abduls. PA uses them to bring the civilian government on its knees, everytime the civilian government reads something from a somewhat independent script. Also use it against the media. So that you know the PA has banned Dawn in some cities in Pak, and there is a gag order on media as a whole. Tehreek-e-Labaik sit in at Faizabad contesting changes in the Election Bill 2017, and then a PA general going over there and handing out cash (caught on camera) and saying he was with them, and later the National Assembly regretting it as a clerical error. The founder, Khadim Hussain Rizvi was a nobody until the military promoted him, as promoting Hafiz Saeed or someone else on UNs list accused of terrorism would have come to the notice of American & Indian intelligence and caused greater scrutiny. Don't think it escaped the attention of US and Indian intelligence anyway. The PAs usual retort is everybody can protest in a democracy. This list also includes 20 other terrorist groups as identified by the US State Dept, including India facing groups like LeT, HM, JeM etc.
    Powerful levers that can be used whenever

    #3. The so called intellectual abduls. They are Pak film-stars, famous TV anchors, sport-stars etc. They support the PA, and by extension also the ISI to win favours, and also for their own survival. Shahid Afridi tweeted recently that - Innocents being shot down by oppressive regime to clamp voice of self-determination and independence. This is the PAs way to show the world that eminent Paks also enunciate the terrible situation in Kashmir and regret the oppressive Indian regime. Never did Afridi talk about the situation in PoK, or in Pak as a whole, or even criticise the PA. Afridi also once said that Pakistani and Muslims hearts are bigger than Indian hearts - that was fodder for the usual abduls.
    It would seem it is ok to bash Pakistan so long as it is done outside Pakistan not within

    #4. The business abduls. They want a stable Pakistan as it is in their interests. The more stable Pak is, the more money they make from a bigger Indian market and elsewhere. Some of them are very critical of China and CPEC, but they shut up, instead of being 6 foot under. Poor Nawaz Sharif was one of them. RIP.
    This is Nalapat's contention. Nawaz opposing the monopoly the PA has over the economy. Like robber barons

    #5. The civil society adbuls. They are a minority, very few. These are the future of Pakistan. They hold rallies, protest marches and sit-ins. Sometimes they are harassed, sometimes they go to prison. Sometimes they are kidnapped never to return. It consists of the real intellectuals living inside Pak, fearless in the face of terrorism that the Pakistan Army sponsors on its own civilians. They are young and old, men and women. People that actually care for Pakistan, and understand the cancer (PA) that is eating their country from the inside. I know some of them. More power to you guys.
    Few & far bettwen. Afrasaib khattak comes to mind. Usual charge still applies. Only talk sense outside office but do nothing when in office.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 15 Jul 18,, 15:49.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
      It will cause friction between the two groups. Collapse is too strong a word.
      There is already friction. Sharif has moved back to Pak, and the PA has lodged him and his daughter to jail. The issue here is America is still patient with Pak, thinking the new administrations pressure will force Pak to finally act. History is proof that isn't the case. Pakistans' history started in 1947, and immediately they started a war in Kashmir. The PA has tasted the blood of innocents and free money, they won't give it up, unless something drastic happens.

      Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
      How do you explain them moving against Musharaf ? Could it be this isn't the first time their judiciary moved against a leader. There is supposed to be a balance of power between executive, legislature & judiciary. This is blatant overreach. Or are they making amends for their earlier infraction against Mushraraf. Quid pro quo.

      Panama papers was a godsend, they had a ready pretext. Earlier the judiciary were under dictators and had to do their bidding. Couldn't stop Zia.
      You answered it yourself.

      The issue started with Cyril Almeida in Dawn exposing the frustration of the then PM Nawaz, CM of Punjab Shebaz Sharif and some other Pak politicians regarding strong statements coming from the Trump administration to stop siding with the TTP. The PA/ISI screws democracy in Pak hiding in the shadows, which is not so hidden as far as world opinion is concerned. But this Dawn leaks made them feel naked (?) probably, and was a direct hit at their support base amongst ordinary abduls. Hence the downfall of Nawaz Sharif.

      Here, I'd like to mention another point. The majority people of Pak, I don't think love the PA/ISI, they fear this monstrous duo.

      There was no just trial on the Panama papers case. And NAB which sentenced Sharif to 10 years of imprisonment constituted of 5 judges, of which 2 were from the PA.

      Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
      You had asked me who one of them was. A Parsee. I cannot remember now where that post is.
      Nevermind. It's not important.

      Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
      Amazing how it still somehow continues to survive.
      PA/ISI still kills its innocent civilian activists, journalists, Pushtuns, Balochis, basically anyone who questions them. Pak continues to survive because the PA/ISI continue their genocide. Earlier it was the Bengalis, now ethnicities have changed. And also because they have been successful in convincing the US that if they fall, the nukes get transferred to the Islamists. It's a nightmare scenario, but I do think that the Pentagon has prepared contingency plans.

      For it's evil stupid laugh, have you ever seen a Hyena getting killed in Discovery or Nat Geo, or anywhere? I haven't. They hardly hunt, and scavenge to survive, that is free food. PA is the Hyena of Pak.

      Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
      Powerful levers that can be used whenever
      Yes. Powerful levers got them to the greylist of FATF. Here, another interesting thing - when rumours came about that Pak was placed in FATF greylist, even the next day when newspapers carried this message in their front pages, the abduls in P-Def were saying that it was India which was greylisted. That India was blacklisted once earlier by the FATF.

      Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
      It would seem it is ok to bash Pakistan so long as it is done outside Pakistan not within
      Some do it inside Pak as well, not so overtly. And very few, do it overtly as well inside Pak.

      Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
      This is Nalapat's contention. Nawaz opposing the monopoly the PA has over the economy. Like robber barons
      PA=Pak Economy. Rest have to scavenge whatever is left. The Hyena analogy comes to mind again.

      Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
      Few & far bettwen. Afrasaib khattak comes to mind. Usual charge still applies. Only talk sense outside office but do nothing when in office.
      You're taking a hit in understanding Paks politicians. Afrasaib is a politician. I have read his contrary views. He's no saint. First, he will think of his survival. But there are others, I don't want to name who think about Pak first. A very cute girl is amongst those. At a certain point in time, she used to follow me on Twitter. <heart went la la ..> Thought I would take her out for dinner in a posh <Pak city> hotel.
      Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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      • #18
        I suppose this is a replay of the previous coup in '99. That was punjabi vs punjabi as well. Paks still held together. Expect they will survive this one a well. Nawaz is another question the Saudis aren't interested in helping him this time.

        Originally posted by Oracle View Post
        For it's evil stupid laugh, have you ever seen a Hyena getting killed in Discovery or Nat Geo, or anywhere? I haven't. They hardly hunt, and scavenge to survive, that is free food. PA is the Hyena of Pak.
        Analogy is limited. Hyenas and Lions are competitors as they go after the same prey

        Lions get Hyenas

        Hyenas get lion

        Read the description of the second. The lions recognise the hyena calls when they have some prey and try to steal off the hyenas. Doesn't always work

        PA=Pak Economy. Rest have to scavenge whatever is left. The Hyena analogy comes to mind again.
        They control 30% of the Pak economy. Nawaz wanted to loosen their hold, in effect they saw he was going after their means and countered back. Because they control 30% there is no way to grow those sectors as they would oppose any competition
        Last edited by Double Edge; 15 Jul 18,, 23:36.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
          Analogy is limited. Hyenas and Lions are competitors as they go after the same prey

          Lions get Hyenas

          Hyenas get lion

          Read the description of the second. The lions recognise the hyena calls when they have some prey and try to steal off the hyenas. Doesn't always work
          I said analogy, and you had to dig up videos from Youtube? I feel bizarre!

          Click image for larger version

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          Pak yet to crush terror groups despite tall claims by govt: Reports

          FATF Greylist. Lucky.
          Blacklist. No. China.

          External interference in Elections 2018

          Fcuk you America! Fcuk you India! Infidels!!!
          Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Oracle View Post
            I said analogy, and you had to dig up videos from Youtube? I feel bizarre!
            Because you said you never saw a hyena get killed : D

            Pak yet to crush terror groups despite tall claims by govt: Reports

            FATF Greylist. Lucky.
            Blacklist. No. China.
            That editorial in the Tribune is valid. No better vindication for the greylisting though they don't quite put it across that way

            External interference in Elections 2018

            Fcuk you America! Fcuk you India! Infidels!!!
            This one however is typical. The foreign hand excuse. It's an Indo-American-Afghan conspiracy now. The Israelis have been dropped : D

            A former ambassador no less. Permanent representative at the UN used to giving out nonsense to the world.
            Last edited by Double Edge; 21 Jul 18,, 18:03.

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            • #21
              US flags concern over LeT-affiliated individuals participating in Pak polls: Report

              Terrorists being brought into parliament: Pakistan Senators

              Body of cop abducted by Hizb found in J&K's Kulgam
              Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

              Comment


              • #22


                Can't wait to see this new 'enlightened chapter' : D



                https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/65084608.cms
                "Terrorists were being brought inside the parliament and parliamentarians were being sent to jails," Senator Pervaiz Rashid of Pakistan Muslims League-Nawaz (PML-N) said, in an apparent reference to the ECP's decision to allow some candidates having affiliation to banned groups in the July 25 elections, while former premier and party chief Nawaz Sharif was sent to Adiala Jail in Rawalpindi.
                So naturally they have to raise funds for political 'campaigns'

                He also said that Pakistan was put on the Financial Action Task Force's (FATF) grey list last month on the issue of terror financing.
                hehe

                Leader of the Opposition in the Senate and leading member of Pakistan Peoples' Party (PPP), Sherry Rehman, warned that allowing banned organisations to contest the elections will lead to bringing them into the mainstream.

                "We won't be able to breathe if these people (extremist elements) enter the Parliament," she said.
                Last edited by Double Edge; 21 Jul 18,, 23:11.

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                • #23
                  They go after young guys

                  https://www.hindustantimes.com/india...E18YXQRrJ.html

                  From a year ago, this launched operation all out

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    3 terrorists killed in encounter in J&K's Kulgam district
                    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Senators question magisterial powers for troops on poll duty

                      'How can the elections be free and fair in this environment?' Rabbani thunders at ECP

                      If troops are not deployed, how will elections be rigged to the satisfaction of the PA/ISI?
                      Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Shehbaz vows to make Pakistan better than India

                        LAHORE: Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) President Shehbaz Sharif on Saturday said that people can change his name if he does not take Pakistan ahead of its arch-rival India after coming into power.

                        Addressing a rally in Sargodha, the PML-N president said, “If I do not end load shedding crisis in six months, you can change my name,” adding “They will come to Wahga Border and call Pakistani’s their master.”
                        Paks can try till eternity, but will remain a terrorist shit-hole.
                        Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Only one day later. If there was a shootout they found the right people. What i want to know is whether they were local or from across the border.

                          https://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...le24270569.ece

                          They still haven't found who shot Shujat Bukhari. This is more important to counter Pak as any Kashmiri personality seen to side with India will be eliminated. Safer is to either be quiet or sympathize with the separatists. You know the tide is turning when more voices come out without fear against the separatists. They can only do that when they are safer. These people will be more potent than any armed forces as the fight then is at the source. The narrative.
                          Last edited by Double Edge; 22 Jul 18,, 11:53.

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                          • #28
                            This is the oppositon's view to Modi's policy in Kashmir. That it plays into the ISI's hands. I don't entirely agree with that line.

                            From the ISI’s point of view, therefore, the Modi government was a gift from heaven. The very last thing it wanted was for anything to impede India’s accelerating descent into self-destruction in Kashmir. Asad Durrani, a former director general of the ISI and convinced “peacenik”, summed this up at a recent book launch in Delhi. When asked what the ISI would do next, he said, “Nothing. You have done everything it wanted.”
                            Not quite true is it, why then the need for shelling and infilitrating. Clearly operation all out is taking out their guys that have to be replaced some how


                            The part however that confuses me is the following

                            The ISI might even then have done nothing if it had believed that Modi would return to power in 2019. But the growing unity of the opposition, the succession of bye-election defeats suffered by the BJP, and the coming together of the Congress and JD(s) in Karnataka have made its return less and less likely. This may have been the final straw that made it take the decision to crush any possible revival of dialogue in Kashmir, by killing its current principal icon of peace.
                            It is difficult not to link this revival of threats to the declining fortune of the BJP in India.
                            Ignore for a moment that Modi might lose the next election. How does this prospect influence the ISI wanting to crush any possible revivial of dialog in Kashmir ?

                            Modi’s continuing his policy of killing Kashmiri militants has therefore become a necessity for the Pakistan army’s continued seizure of power in the country.
                            He even manages to blame Modi's Kashmir policy for creeping military rule in Pakistan
                            Last edited by Double Edge; 22 Jul 18,, 15:15.

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                            • #29
                              ISI doesn't want Nawaz, daughter out of jail till elections: Islamabad High Court judge

                              That guy is so dead, or the PA/ISI will make him their bitch.
                              Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Violent Extremist or Political Candidate? In Pakistan Election, You Can Be Both

                                Pompeo’s Pakistan Test: A Suspected Terrorist Turns to Politics
                                Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                                Comment

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