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Thread: For Pakistan, terrorism is a state-sponsored business

  1. #16
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Who owns the guns and the dollars in Pakistan? The PA, so no, unless America thinks Pak should collapse for whatever reasons.
    It will cause friction between the two groups. Collapse is too strong a word.

    It always was.
    How do you explain them moving against Musharaf ? Could it be this isn't the first time their judiciary moved against a leader. There is supposed to be a balance of power between executive, legislature & judiciary. This is blatant overreach. Or are they making amends for their earlier infraction against Mushraraf. Quid pro quo.

    Panama papers was a godsend, they had a ready pretext. Earlier the judiciary were under dictators and had to do their bidding. Couldn't stop Zia.


    These intellectuals are right, but they don't matter. They can't change anything inside Pak, from the outside.
    You had asked me who one of them was. A Parsee. I cannot remember now where that post is.


    Without the PA/ISI, its killing tactics and hobnobbing with islamist terrorists, Pak could collapse any moment.
    Amazing how it still somehow continues to survive.

    #2. The religious abduls. PA uses them to bring the civilian government on its knees, everytime the civilian government reads something from a somewhat independent script. Also use it against the media. So that you know the PA has banned Dawn in some cities in Pak, and there is a gag order on media as a whole. Tehreek-e-Labaik sit in at Faizabad contesting changes in the Election Bill 2017, and then a PA general going over there and handing out cash (caught on camera) and saying he was with them, and later the National Assembly regretting it as a clerical error. The founder, Khadim Hussain Rizvi was a nobody until the military promoted him, as promoting Hafiz Saeed or someone else on UNs list accused of terrorism would have come to the notice of American & Indian intelligence and caused greater scrutiny. Don't think it escaped the attention of US and Indian intelligence anyway. The PAs usual retort is everybody can protest in a democracy. This list also includes 20 other terrorist groups as identified by the US State Dept, including India facing groups like LeT, HM, JeM etc.
    Powerful levers that can be used whenever

    #3. The so called intellectual abduls. They are Pak film-stars, famous TV anchors, sport-stars etc. They support the PA, and by extension also the ISI to win favours, and also for their own survival. Shahid Afridi tweeted recently that - Innocents being shot down by oppressive regime to clamp voice of self-determination and independence. This is the PAs way to show the world that eminent Paks also enunciate the terrible situation in Kashmir and regret the oppressive Indian regime. Never did Afridi talk about the situation in PoK, or in Pak as a whole, or even criticise the PA. Afridi also once said that Pakistani and Muslims hearts are bigger than Indian hearts - that was fodder for the usual abduls.
    It would seem it is ok to bash Pakistan so long as it is done outside Pakistan not within

    #4. The business abduls. They want a stable Pakistan as it is in their interests. The more stable Pak is, the more money they make from a bigger Indian market and elsewhere. Some of them are very critical of China and CPEC, but they shut up, instead of being 6 foot under. Poor Nawaz Sharif was one of them. RIP.
    This is Nalapat's contention. Nawaz opposing the monopoly the PA has over the economy. Like robber barons

    #5. The civil society adbuls. They are a minority, very few. These are the future of Pakistan. They hold rallies, protest marches and sit-ins. Sometimes they are harassed, sometimes they go to prison. Sometimes they are kidnapped never to return. It consists of the real intellectuals living inside Pak, fearless in the face of terrorism that the Pakistan Army sponsors on its own civilians. They are young and old, men and women. People that actually care for Pakistan, and understand the cancer (PA) that is eating their country from the inside. I know some of them. More power to you guys.
    Few & far bettwen. Afrasaib khattak comes to mind. Usual charge still applies. Only talk sense outside office but do nothing when in office.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 15 Jul 18, at 15:49.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    It will cause friction between the two groups. Collapse is too strong a word.
    There is already friction. Sharif has moved back to Pak, and the PA has lodged him and his daughter to jail. The issue here is America is still patient with Pak, thinking the new administrations pressure will force Pak to finally act. History is proof that isn't the case. Pakistans' history started in 1947, and immediately they started a war in Kashmir. The PA has tasted the blood of innocents and free money, they won't give it up, unless something drastic happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    How do you explain them moving against Musharaf ? Could it be this isn't the first time their judiciary moved against a leader. There is supposed to be a balance of power between executive, legislature & judiciary. This is blatant overreach. Or are they making amends for their earlier infraction against Mushraraf. Quid pro quo.

    Panama papers was a godsend, they had a ready pretext. Earlier the judiciary were under dictators and had to do their bidding. Couldn't stop Zia.
    You answered it yourself.

    The issue started with Cyril Almeida in Dawn exposing the frustration of the then PM Nawaz, CM of Punjab Shebaz Sharif and some other Pak politicians regarding strong statements coming from the Trump administration to stop siding with the TTP. The PA/ISI screws democracy in Pak hiding in the shadows, which is not so hidden as far as world opinion is concerned. But this Dawn leaks made them feel naked (?) probably, and was a direct hit at their support base amongst ordinary abduls. Hence the downfall of Nawaz Sharif.

    Here, I'd like to mention another point. The majority people of Pak, I don't think love the PA/ISI, they fear this monstrous duo.

    There was no just trial on the Panama papers case. And NAB which sentenced Sharif to 10 years of imprisonment constituted of 5 judges, of which 2 were from the PA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    You had asked me who one of them was. A Parsee. I cannot remember now where that post is.
    Nevermind. It's not important.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Amazing how it still somehow continues to survive.
    PA/ISI still kills its innocent civilian activists, journalists, Pushtuns, Balochis, basically anyone who questions them. Pak continues to survive because the PA/ISI continue their genocide. Earlier it was the Bengalis, now ethnicities have changed. And also because they have been successful in convincing the US that if they fall, the nukes get transferred to the Islamists. It's a nightmare scenario, but I do think that the Pentagon has prepared contingency plans.

    For it's evil stupid laugh, have you ever seen a Hyena getting killed in Discovery or Nat Geo, or anywhere? I haven't. They hardly hunt, and scavenge to survive, that is free food. PA is the Hyena of Pak.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Powerful levers that can be used whenever
    Yes. Powerful levers got them to the greylist of FATF. Here, another interesting thing - when rumours came about that Pak was placed in FATF greylist, even the next day when newspapers carried this message in their front pages, the abduls in P-Def were saying that it was India which was greylisted. That India was blacklisted once earlier by the FATF.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    It would seem it is ok to bash Pakistan so long as it is done outside Pakistan not within
    Some do it inside Pak as well, not so overtly. And very few, do it overtly as well inside Pak.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    This is Nalapat's contention. Nawaz opposing the monopoly the PA has over the economy. Like robber barons
    PA=Pak Economy. Rest have to scavenge whatever is left. The Hyena analogy comes to mind again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Few & far bettwen. Afrasaib khattak comes to mind. Usual charge still applies. Only talk sense outside office but do nothing when in office.
    You're taking a hit in understanding Paks politicians. Afrasaib is a politician. I have read his contrary views. He's no saint. First, he will think of his survival. But there are others, I don't want to name who think about Pak first. A very cute girl is amongst those. At a certain point in time, she used to follow me on Twitter. <heart went la la ..> Thought I would take her out for dinner in a posh <Pak city> hotel.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - AR

    Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it!

  3. #18
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    I suppose this is a replay of the previous coup in '99. That was punjabi vs punjabi as well. Paks still held together. Expect they will survive this one a well. Nawaz is another question the Saudis aren't interested in helping him this time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    For it's evil stupid laugh, have you ever seen a Hyena getting killed in Discovery or Nat Geo, or anywhere? I haven't. They hardly hunt, and scavenge to survive, that is free food. PA is the Hyena of Pak.
    Analogy is limited. Hyenas and Lions are competitors as they go after the same prey

    Lions get Hyenas

    Hyenas get lion

    Read the description of the second. The lions recognise the hyena calls when they have some prey and try to steal off the hyenas. Doesn't always work

    PA=Pak Economy. Rest have to scavenge whatever is left. The Hyena analogy comes to mind again.
    They control 30% of the Pak economy. Nawaz wanted to loosen their hold, in effect they saw he was going after their means and countered back. Because they control 30% there is no way to grow those sectors as they would oppose any competition
    Last edited by Double Edge; 15 Jul 18, at 23:36.

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