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Thread: How would a dog fight an armed intruder?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Sir, I think we're thinking too much. Gun laws are stricter in commonwealth countries, and if there is a break-in or unlawful entry into a house - 2 German Shepherds can absolutely tackle that part where those who enter carries a poison spray or whatever. German Shepherds are the deterrence here. Before both the dogs go down, they would have done their work with their barking and biting. If however Roman legionaries are out hunting dogs, then we can dig deeper. :D
    Let's put it this way. If it was me, your dogs would be dead and I would have no bites on me.

  2. #17
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    The point is that those willing to risk the dogs will be prepared to take on the dogs and it doesn't have to be guns. Poison sprays would be just as effective and worst comes to worst, a spear is a good way to put them down.
    If the dogs are inside, one could just open up a window a crack, toss the dogs some poison-laced meat, and wait a few minutes. Or if they're outside, toss it over the fence as one is walking by the residence, and come back later.

    Dogs are really only good for deterring opportunistic thieves, who are looking for low-risk paydays that involve the least amount of effort.

    I'm being Captain Obvious here, but generally speaking, a sizeable dog can be a great force multiplier in an interpersonal combat situation. The first people to domesticate dogs tens of thousands of years ago had a distinct advantage over peoples who did not, which is why dogs spread so far and wide throughout the Old World in relatively short order. In the ten or twenty thousand years before recorded history began, either you had dogs, and if you didn't, you found yourself conquered by a tribe who did.

    Anyone determined enough though will deal with the dogs. If someone is the target of a determined person(s), they've got problems that go far beyond simply not having dogs, or not having enough home security. At which point, other actions are necessary to deal with the problem.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 30 Jun 18, at 17:00.
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  3. #18
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    If the dogs are inside, one could just open up a window a crack, toss the dogs some poison-laced meat, and wait a few minutes. Or if they're outside, toss it over the fence as one is walking by the residence, and come back later.
    This is why i asked about not taking anything from strangers. The dogs have to be well fed and disciplined or they will be vulnerable.

  4. #19
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    This is why i asked about not taking anything from strangers. The dogs have to be well fed and disciplined or they will be vulnerable.
    If one were to toss the dog poison-laced meat, and walk away for half an hour, the dog will likely forget it was given to them by a stranger, at which point it's just a chunk of meat, and they'll start chowing down. Then the determined intruder can return to the scene and do whatever it is they intended to do, unmolested.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    If the dogs are inside, one could just open up a window a crack, toss the dogs some poison-laced meat, and wait a few minutes. Or if they're outside, toss it over the fence as one is walking by the residence, and come back later.
    That is what's wrong with this entire premis. The people with the dogs assume that the intruder would walk in against a fully alert and ready dog. Why would the intruder not use a barrier, walls or fence, to stop the dog's weapons and eliminate the dogs before entry?

  6. #21
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    If one were to toss the dog poison-laced meat, and walk away for half an hour, the dog will likely forget it was given to them by a stranger, at which point it's just a chunk of meat, and they'll start chowing down. Then the determined intruder can return to the scene and do whatever it is they intended to do, unmolested.
    Incorrect. If one knows how to discipline his/her dog, it would never eat anything, even chunks of meat thrown by strangers. My dog wouldn't since he became a year old. And, btw, Cesar Milan would disagree.
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  7. #22
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Let's put it this way. If it was me, your dogs would be dead and I would have no bites on me.
    Absolutely. Having had dogs for close to 12 years, a Bhutia dog before the German Shepherd, I can say with confidence, that if I want to rob a house with dogs, I can. Most people have dogs for show. A lady friend of mine too bought a German Shepherd after I bought mine. Whenever I would visit her, and I would visit her often, the dog would take a peek at me from behind the curtains, and walk away. Depends a lot on the owner. She made it look and behave like a lady, not as a guard dog.
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  8. #23
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Incorrect. If one knows how to discipline his/her dog, it would never eat anything, even chunks of meat thrown by strangers. My dog wouldn't since he became a year old. And, btw, Cesar Milan would disagree.
    I'd wager that less than 1 in 10,000 dogs in this world would resist the meat. What you're describing sounds like something that's ideal and theoretical, but wouldn't hold up in practice. You may have had dogs that had been behaviorally conditioned to refuse food from strangers in your presence, but when a dog is not in the presence of its owner, a lot of things go right out the window.

    If I were to observe how you fed your dogs, and placed the meat where you put their food, after I make myself absent, the dog will likely forget how to meat got there, and even come to believe that you had put that meat there, and the dog had simply forgotten to eat the rest of the breakfast you gave it.
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  9. #24
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    I'd wager that less than 1 in 10,000 dogs in this world would resist the meat. What you're describing sounds like something that's ideal and theoretical, but wouldn't hold up in practice. You may have had dogs that had been behaviorally conditioned to refuse food from strangers in your presence, but when a dog is not in the presence of its owner, a lot of things go right out the window.

    If I were to observe how you fed your dogs, and placed the meat where you put their food, after I make myself absent, the dog will likely forget how to meat got there, and even come to believe that you had put that meat there, and the dog had simply forgotten to eat the rest of the breakfast you gave it.
    Sorry, don't agree at all. We lived in Government quarters. Adjacent to our house was a XXX family, they had connection with terrorists. These guys tried all methods to tame my buddy, without success. They would throw raw meat, cooked meat, even bones, to no effect. It's how one trains his/her dogs.

    Once the para-military raided their house at around 9:45 PM, my GS started barking so loud, I got a warning the next day. In response, I said I can't help my dog barking. It's exactly the purpose why I have my GS in the first place.
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  10. #25
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    That is what's wrong with this entire premis. The people with the dogs assume that the intruder would walk in against a fully alert and ready dog. Why would the intruder not use a barrier, walls or fence, to stop the dog's weapons and eliminate the dogs before entry?
    Who's coming to get me? John Wick? I'd agree if a SF operative turned professional mercenary is looking for me. In normal neighbourhoods and times, 2 GS are more than enough. That too in Australia. We're are thinking way too much.
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  11. #26
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    If I were to observe how you fed your dogs, and placed the meat where you put their food, after I make myself absent, the dog will likely forget how to meat got there, and even come to believe that you had put that meat there, and the dog had simply forgotten to eat the rest of the breakfast you gave it.
    It's the smell my friend. It's the smell of my hand, that touched the meat. I am assuming you never had a German Shepherd.
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  12. #27
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    This is why i asked about not taking anything from strangers. The dogs have to be well fed and disciplined or they will be vulnerable.
    What do you mean by a well fed dog? A well fed dog is one that eats all the time, is obese, and will be dying shorty. A well fed dog is same as a duck or a rabbit that eats all day. Discipline is all that matters. Your dog might be on an empty stomach, but it will not accept any food from strangers if disciplined well enough.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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  13. #28
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    It's the smell my friend. It's the smell of my hand, that touched the meat. I am assuming you never had a German Shepherd.
    It's easy enough to impart your odors onto the meat, while not imparting any of mine, if that's what getting the dog to eat the meat truly hinged upon.

    The Stasi used to place absorbent fabric on chairs while interrogating citizens of the DDR, and crank up the heat in the room a bit and make the interrogee nervous to get them to sweat. When the interrogation was over, they would gingerly take the odor-infused fabric from the chair, and seal it in a bag. That way, they'd have the person's scent if they ever needed to track the person down with dogs. One could simply find a way to swipe someone's towel, underwear, or a shirt for the same purpose.

    But you're right, we're overthinking it. It's just as easy to drop a 20 kilogram stone on the dog's head from atop a fence or a wall. Or spear it down the throat through a fence or a gate while out of reach of its teeth. It all depends on whether being more or less noticeable is important or not.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 30 Jun 18, at 19:42.
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  14. #29
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    As far as training dogs not to eat/accept food from strangers, the US military tried that. That's why nuclear installations are/were protected by geese during the cold war. They make one hell of a noise.

    Against the opportune intruder, the noise will scare them away. Especially in the urban environment. Out in the country, not so much.

    With more than one person attempting to break in, One distracts the animals at the opposite side of the house while the other enters. Then its a matter of closing doors and isolating the dogs in one area. Or I just beat the dogs to death/cut their throat/stab their neck as they try to bite me. Zapp them with a stun gun, Hit them with pepper spray I bought at the local market. Spray them in the face with an ammonia based cleaner/oven cleaner if the other options are illegal to buy

    Because if its a deliberate robbery, vice one of opportunity, I've cased your house and know about the dogs. I've come prepared
    Last edited by Gun Grape; 30 Jun 18, at 21:23.
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  15. #30
    Senior Contributor bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    How do you train it not to take food from others ?

    Has to be well fed or it will take food from strangers as well

    Some people do train their dogs to only take food from them. At some point in time the owner dies, spends a lot of time in a hospital, etc and the dog starves to death.
    Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

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