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Thread: Old Tech vs New Tech

  1. #61
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    I'm running my old appliances into the ground. They seem a lot simpler to upkeep with less parts that can possibly break. The appliances I have now appear to date between the early 90s and late 90s. Still work like a charm (though maybe the fridge is a bit heavy on the electric).
    Same principle applies to older cars... I know a few guys who won't buy cars they can't fix themselves. And the more doodads, widgets, features, "options" a car has - the more things that can and will break.

    I know someone who was obsessed with buying luxury cars with all the options, but bought used and never took good care of the car afterward. Between four luxury sedans, every option you can imagine broke or stopped functioning on one sedan or the other at some point.

    To quote Christopher George Latore Wallace: mo options, mo problems.

    At least I think that's how the saying goes.

    Switching gears a bit, anybody have any thoughts as to the proposals of the A-10 being replaced with the F-35?

    My opinion, we should keep the A-10.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 15 Jun 18, at 04:56.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  2. #62
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    They use 6A fuses for regular housing over there? Only know those from mobile homes over here. The default for housing here is a single 16A fuse per room at 230V (no separate ]
    circuits) plus 16A on the three-phase 400V for the kitchen.
    yes, 6A is shared between lights and plug points. In the kitchen and bathrooms there is an additional 15A plug point for the boiler and washing machine

    What do you do if you want to plug in a vacuum cleaner for example - because mine for example already requires 7.5A at full power, and it's not exactly anything special...?
    The one i have works from any power point. Its not that high an amperage. I don't really use one very often as i don't have any carpets. All tiled floors.

  3. #63
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    Same principle applies to older cars... I know a few guys who won't buy cars they can't fix themselves. And the more doodads, widgets, features, "options" a car has - the more things that can and will break.

    I know someone who was obsessed with buying luxury cars with all the options, but bought used and never took good care of the car afterward. Between four luxury sedans, every option you can imagine broke or stopped functioning on one sedan or the other at some point.

    To quote Christopher George Latore Wallace: mo options, mo problems.

    At least I think that's how the saying goes.

    Switching gears a bit, anybody have any thoughts as to the proposals of the A-10 being replaced with the F-35?

    My opinion, we should keep the A-10.
    Definitely something I tend to see a lot of with 2000s cars. The electronics on those things were soooooooooo finicky and died out way too quickly. Also, obsession with used luxury cars...sounds like a money pit to me! My understanding is those German pieces require some extremely pricey fixes.

    I hope the 2012 and 2015 makes we have will last for a while....cars are damned expensive and I don't want to shell out money for a trimmed out model again.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  4. #64
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    Definitely something I tend to see a lot of with 2000s cars. The electronics on those things were soooooooooo finicky and died out way too quickly. Also, obsession with used luxury cars...sounds like a money pit to me! My understanding is those German pieces require some extremely pricey fixes.
    I've never owned a German car, but from what I've gathered and observed from people who have, they're engineered so well, whenever there's a mechanical failure, they have a high tendency to experience a cascading failure.

    I had a co-worker about ten years ago, and some engine component, I don't remember which, failed in his early 00s Volkswagen. He had to have the entire engine replaced at a cost of several thousand dollars. I do vaguely recall that if it had happened in my late 90s Pontiac Bonneville, I would have been out perhaps $100-200 and I could have done the labor myself.

    Regarding cars in general these days, for those who can afford to buy new, the idea is to trade-in the car before all these problems crop up, whether it be the luxury options failing, or a mechanical issue. They never saw or experienced any problems, they got rid of it beforehand, all they knew of the car was a quality experience.

    It's the people economically downstream who can only afford to buy used that end up experiencing just how expensively bad it can be when all of these options start failing, and they're stuck with a car where you can't even fix the alternator unless you dismount and cherry-pick the entire engine. Best to KISS if one is downstream and can only afford cars used.

    I hope the 2012 and 2015 makes we have will last for a while....cars are damned expensive and I don't want to shell out money for a trimmed out model again.
    Cars consume 20-25% of the average American income. Gas, insurance, maintenance, repairs, fines, fees, and the biggest cost of all - depreciation.

    Unless they become collector's items, cars in the end are only worth as much as the scrapper will pay for it. That $50,000 car, the last person to own it will get perhaps $75-200 in scrap value.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 15 Jun 18, at 17:18.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  5. #65
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    They seem to be focused on the military/industrial market. Not the consumer one. Can get a CRT screen for an old F-15, but I'll bet they don't have CRT screens for that 1980's 27in console TV But I did get a laugh out of this on their site
    We are your obsolescence solution.
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  6. #66
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    Same principle applies to older cars... I know a few guys who won't buy cars they can't fix themselves. And the more doodads, widgets, features, "options" a car has - the more things that can and will break.

    I know someone who was obsessed with buying luxury cars with all the options, but bought used and never took good care of the car afterward. Between four luxury sedans, every option you can imagine broke or stopped functioning on one sedan or the other at some point.
    And thats the key. If you don't take care of your stuff its gonna break.

    I've had 6 Toyotas. Just bought the last one yesterday. Of the other 5, 4 were used over 10 years and the only thing that I replaced was a Starter on the 91 Corolla and the clock on the 05 Matrix. My 02 4Runner and 05 FJ Cruiser were tanks. Replaced tires and windshield wipers only. We will see how dependable the 18 Rav4xLE is.
    The other car was a 2015 that I leased. I was way upside down on a POS Pathfinder and that was the best option to get out of it. Still 3 years and not a hickup


    Switching gears a bit, anybody have any thoughts as to the proposals of the A-10 being replaced with the F-35?

    My opinion, we should keep the A-10.
    Get rid of it. Its old and can only fly in a permissible environment. Just about every plane in the US inventory can drop smart weapons

    Its no longer about dropping dumb bombs and shooting things with a big gun.
    Last edited by Gun Grape; 15 Jun 18, at 21:14.
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  7. #67
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    And thats the key. If you don't take care of your stuff its gonna break.

    I've had 6 Toyotas. Just bought the last one yesterday. Of the other 5, 4 were used over 10 years and the only thing that I replaced was a Starter on the 91 Corolla and the clock on the 05 Matrix. My 02 4Runner and 05 FJ Cruiser were tanks. Replaced tires and windshield wipers only. We will see how dependable the 18 Rav4xLE is.
    The other car was a 2015 that I leased. I was way upside down on a POS Pathfinder and that was the best option to get out of it. Still 3 years and not a hickup
    The 91 Corolla is a pretty basic car electrically. More complicated than say my 65 F100 or 68 Cougar but less than anything from 2000 onward. I happen to have two cars from the early 90's which are used as daily drivers, a 90 and 91 Mazda 626. Very basic mechanically as I can rebuild most everything on the cars. They do have a primitive on board computer where you read light flashes on the dash.

    By 2004 I bought a Ford Focus. My first foray back to an American manufacturer since the 70's. The first 11 years the car was nothing less than spectacular. Stick shift, large powerful four, great handling and great visibility. Then in it's 12th year little electrical gremlins. The interior light might flash off and on at night in the locked car. The idiot lights for oil pressure and/or alternator might glow in the dark with the car off. The upshift light always have a light glow all the time. People say grounds or corrosion. In my environment not a spec of surface rust anywhere on the car inside, outside or under. Right now I am dealing with a P0302 and P1235. I solved the 0302 but the 1235 refers to the fuel system. I believe the pump is ok but the pcm and FP control are having issues talking. Another electrical gremlin.

    Now if I had gotten rid of the car after 7 years, typical, I would never have seen that but someone else would. Could this car last 28 years like the 90 Mazda 626? Yes, it could mechanically. Electrically??? Could it last 50 years electrically like my Cougar? No way.

    The newer cars of today scare me even more. I am quite adept at mechanical work. Put an engine back together is no problem. Diving into the myriad wiring harnesses, relays, sensors and so forth not so much.

  8. #68
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    The 91 Corolla is a pretty basic car electrically. More complicated than say my 65 F100 or 68 Cougar but less than anything from 2000 onward. I happen to have two cars from the early 90's which are used as daily drivers, a 90 and 91 Mazda 626. Very basic mechanically as I can rebuild most everything on the cars. They do have a primitive on board computer where you read light flashes on the dash.

    By 2004 I bought a Ford Focus. My first foray back to an American manufacturer since the 70's. The first 11 years the car was nothing less than spectacular. Stick shift, large powerful four, great handling and great visibility. Then in it's 12th year little electrical gremlins. The interior light might flash off and on at night in the locked car. The idiot lights for oil pressure and/or alternator might glow in the dark with the car off. The upshift light always have a light glow all the time. People say grounds or corrosion. In my environment not a spec of surface rust anywhere on the car inside, outside or under. Right now I am dealing with a P0302 and P1235. I solved the 0302 but the 1235 refers to the fuel system. I believe the pump is ok but the pcm and FP control are having issues talking. Another electrical gremlin.

    Now if I had gotten rid of the car after 7 years, typical, I would never have seen that but someone else would. Could this car last 28 years like the 90 Mazda 626? Yes, it could mechanically. Electrically??? Could it last 50 years electrically like my Cougar? No way.

    The newer cars of today scare me even more. I am quite adept at mechanical work. Put an engine back together is no problem. Diving into the myriad wiring harnesses, relays, sensors and so forth not so much.
    Know what you mean. I had to replace the clock in the Matrix, not because the clock went out. I replaced it because the clock is used as the controller for all things in the interior.
    The passenger seat airbag sensor went out so the clock had to be replaced. Me and the head of the service dept had a long talk about that when the mechanic told me that.

    This is where we are at. A few months ago I was listening to a local mechanics talk show on the radio. Guy calls in because his transmission is slipping, hes a shade tree mechanic and cannot find anything wrong but the problem will not go away.
    Host ask if he does his own services or takes it to the dealership for oil changes. Guy changes his own oil. Host tells him that's the problem. He hasn't taken his car in so the computer(s) have not been updated with the latest version of software.
    Tells him that GM had pushed out a couple of updates, one of them was for the sensors in the transmission at XXX number of miles. Tells the guy to bring it to his shop and he will update the vehicles operating system

    Having a brother in the car business, and doing a short stint as a salesman myself I'll tell you that it will only get worse.

    Dealerships do not make money selling new cars. The service dept is where they make their money.
    Last edited by Gun Grape; 16 Jun 18, at 00:43.
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  9. #69
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post

    To quote Christopher George Latore Wallace: mo options, mo problems.
    Hertz upgraded me to a Merc last year, and it was the most complicated car I ever drove. I don’t own a car, so rentals are pretty much my only experience for the last 35 years.
    In other words, new doesn’t scare me.

    At the end of a week-long drive around NE Scotland and back down to London, I made the mistake of turning on the radio. I’m not familiar with the layout of British roads, so I was relying on the Sat-Nav, and it was small enough that the audio instructions were useful.

    Well, I couldn’t figure out how to turn down the radio far enough to hear the Sat-Nav without also turning down the volume on the Sat-Nav. And, I couldn’t figure out how to turn off the radio, either.

    Very frustrating for the last 100 miles or so.
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    Well, I couldn’t figure out how to turn down the radio far enough to hear the Sat-Nav without also turning down the volume on the Sat-Nav. And, I couldn’t figure out how to turn off the radio, either.

    Very frustrating for the last 100 miles or so.
    What's wrong with a map?

  11. #71
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    And thats the key. If you don't take care of your stuff its gonna break.
    Not all of the options that failed/stopped working were the result of a lack of care. Most of the options were just not made with the quality to last 150,000+ miles. Lack of taking care of these cars caused this person more mechanical issues and problems with rust on the body.

    The only option I can think of that failed directly due to lack of care, is that there was a leak in the windshield that went unfixed, and rain would perpetually soak the passenger side panel with the power window swtich. The power windows wouldn't work even after I replaced the switch twice. My guess would be the wiring got corroded, and I don't work on wiring and relays.

    A lot of the options couldn't be used because switches, buttons, etc. were low quality and after 15+ years, the switches/buttons etc. would break, fall off, or simply wouldn't work when pressed.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 16 Jun 18, at 18:03.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  12. #72
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    What's wrong with a map?
    Nothing . But

    The nav system in my car allows me to program my destination in it, with side trips included. It then calculates the three best routes (Fastest, shortest, best gas mileage).
    Gives me the mileage to destination and est time of arrival. (Continuously updated)
    While driving it alerts me to road construction, traffic jams, accidents. In towns it alerts me to traffic cameras at intersections
    It tells me ahead of time (1 mile, 1/2 mile, 500 ft) when I need to change lanes to make a turn.Or that a turn is coming up. ( would have been lost without this feature driving through Houston Tx)
    It tells me where gas stations are.
    When I get hungry it plots out restaurants. And I can choose which type for it to display. So if I'm in an unfamiliar city and want to find a Korean restaurant the nav system can find all of them in a set radius and give me directions. ( loved this in San Antonio)
    And I never have to look down, or depend on a a-driver to read the map
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  13. #73
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    A lot of the options couldn't be used because switches, buttons, etc. were low quality and after 15+ years, the switches/buttons etc. would break, fall off, or simply wouldn't work when pressed.
    The light switches in your house aren't designed to last 15+ years. Doesn't make them low quality.
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  14. #74
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Problem. He drilled 120 feet down. The water table at the time was 80 feet down. The year after, the water table dropped to 130 feet, so he paid another $10K to drill down to 200 feet plus the propane he used when the pumps were not working because of no water.
    If I were him, I'd do rain barrel collection, piped down from the gutters and downspouts on the house into the barrels. These barrels would be sealed to prevent evaporation, and would constitute a reserve of fresh water for a variety of needs.

    Obviously he didn't cause the water table to drop 50 ft. through his personal use, but at least he'd have ample water for watering the lawn, garden, and trees. If he's using flush toilets, he can always draw a bucket of water for this purpose.

    Outdoor watering represents 30% of typical American household water consumption, and toilet flushing another 20%. So rain barrel collection could potentially supply half of water consumed, at least during non-winter seasons.

    The rainwater could also be rendered potable with some expense involved. Might be cheaper than using propane to power the pump to draw it up from 130 ft deep though.

    Bottled water can be kept on stock for emergencies when rendering the rain barrel water potable proves to be too inconvenient, or during dry spells when the barrels are low or empty.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 16 Jun 18, at 20:19.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  15. #75
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    he wasn't using the water for consumption. he was using geothermal to heat his house
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

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