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Thread: Old Tech vs New Tech

  1. #166
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    You will strike water before you dig 10ft.
    Ah its the high water table, that happens too in some places but can be pumped out

  2. #167
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    New tech thing that I love. Electronic banking. Especially depositing checks.

    Old way was, once I received a check, filled out a deposit slip and took to to my local branch bank. If after 2PM they processed it the next day and it took 3-5 working days for the money to show up in my account.

    Now days, You hand me a check. I use the bank app on my phone to take a picture of it front and back (with endorsement for E-deposit only). Within 2 min I receive a text telling me that the image was accepted. Within 30min I get a text telling me that the check was processed and money has been credited to my account. And it doesn't matter what time of day or night I send the image.

    Works great for me, especially since my primary bank is based in Va. And the nearest branch office is close to 40 miles away.
    I still have to fill out a deposit slip here and it shows up a few days later. With Chase over twenty years back all i did was stick a cheque in an envelope, into the ATM it went and it appeared in the account later in the day or the day after.

  3. #168
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Why aren't you using a credit card ?!?
    I could just as easily ask, why use a credit card? I can think of plenty of good reasons not to use one.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  4. #169
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    I could just as easily ask, why use a credit card? I can think of plenty of good reasons not to use one.
    Protection is better than a debit card. You can refuse payments. Can't do that on a debit card. If you pay on time its just like a debit card. Won't do your credit rating any good though.

    I remember a friend getting his Discover card used fraudulently. Turned out the thieves went through the garbage and used the statements. He managed to cancel some payments and after that shredded everything and was fine after.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 07 Jul 18, at 00:21.

  5. #170
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Protection is better than a debit card. You can refuse payments. Can't do that on a debit card
    I prefer to use neither.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  6. #171
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    We get that with people moving within a city - or trying to use tricks to pretend to have done so (which usually don't work). It's less pronounced partially because we only have tied school districts for elementary school, i.e. the first four years, and afterwards you can cart your kid halfway across the state if you want to. Most kids from the suburbs do go to schools in the cities for secondary too, even if they sometimes have one-hour commutes due to that. That's both because there's a lack of schools in the suburbs and because those that are out there for secondary at best have an average reputation.
    Pretty much the opposite in the US... in the cities, and poor rural areas as well, kids often make do with obsolete textbooks that are literally falling apart. Public schools in the US are mostly funded through property taxes. The resources available to and quality of education provided to students scales with the income level of the community the school district is in. Wealthy suburban kids have the benefit of smaller class sizes, iPads, well-paid, more qualified teachers, advanced placement courses, nutritious school lunches, and well-funded extracurricular activities of every type.

    There are wealthy parents who live in the city as well, but they can easily afford to skip the whole public school thing and send their kids to private school.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 08 Jul 18, at 18:44.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  7. #172
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    I could just as easily ask, why use a credit card? I can think of plenty of good reasons not to use one.
    Convenience. Also I have a credit union that replaces any funds lost through illegal use of either credit or debit card. With no liability on my part. So If my cards get stolen/hacked and used I get all the money back.
    Don't have to go to the bank before I go shopping to draw money out. Have access to my money 24/7

    The only reason I can think of not to go mostly cashless ( I keep maybe $10 in cash on me) is someone with a lack of will power/personal responsibility. One that impulse buy a lot. Then runs up bills that they cannot pay back.

    So what are the reasons not to use credit/debit cards?
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  8. #173
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    The only reason I can think of not to go mostly cashless ( I keep maybe $10 in cash on me) is someone with a lack of will power/personal responsibility.
    Ask the Germans that question. 80% of purchases there are made in cash. If an entire First World nation can get by just fine using cash for most everything, why can't people exercise their own freedom of choice, and do the same here?

    Yet for many Germans, the convenience of electronic payment is beside the point. Rather, the use of cash has, to a surprising extent, become a proxy for profound concerns about trust, privacy, and the role of the state. Whereas in most countries the choice of how to organize purchases is basically a question of utility, in Germany it’s freighted with much deeper connotations. “Cash, to me, is an important public good by which you measure the transparency and legal order of a society, and also the respect for the individual and the private sphere,” says Max Otte, an economist in Cologne who leads Save Our Cash, a national campaign that opposes measures to restrict the use of physical currency. “ ‘Why do Germans like cash?’ is the wrong question,” he adds. Instead, Otte asks, “Why have others shifted to a cashless society so quickly?”
    Last edited by Ironduke; 08 Jul 18, at 18:57.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    Pretty much the opposite in the US... in the cities, and poor rural areas as well, kids often make do with obsolete textbooks that are literally falling apart.
    That should be relative, i don't think i had any textbooks in school that were less than 15 years old back then. Most of them actually came from another school that had been dissolved 25 years earlier...

    I know, that's the "back in my times we had to walk five miles through the snow" kind of complaint.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    Public schools in the US are mostly funded through property taxes.
    While the source of funding is pretty radically different here, the resulting effect is pretty similar: If the municipality is wealthy then the city is also wealthy. If the population is poor the municipality is also poor. This is padded somewhat in comparison since the source of a town's wealth can also be resident industry, but the general scaling effect is overwhelmingly still the same.

    However, US municipalities tend to have far less available assets (... and services that they pay for). Offhand my town only spends 8% of its budget on its public schools, though that does not include pay for the teachers; that'd probably be another 8-10% relative, but that's directly paid by the state. For scale of that, the town spends 4.5% on its theater houses and orchestra...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    There are wealthy parents who live in the city as well, but they can easily afford to skip the whole public school thing and send their kids to private school.
    For the 20,989 kids going to any school in my town...

    For primary education:
    - 81% at public school (100% from inside town - tied school districts)
    - 19% at private school (44.1% from inside town / 55.9% from outside town)

    For secondary education:
    - 57% at public school (86.7% from inside town / 13.3% from outside town)
    - 43% at private school (56.6% from inside town / 43.4% from outside town)

    For vocational post-secondary education:
    - 97% at public school (26.6% from inside town / 73.4% from outside town)
    - 3% at private school (not distinguished)

    We do have a relatively high private school proportion though for the state.

    Of the private schools above about half are church-funded (of various competing denominations), the other half are private for-profit schools. These private schools are subsidized by the state, tuition at the for-profit schools ranges between 5,000 and 10,000 USD per year these days.

  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    So what are the reasons not to use credit/debit cards?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    Ask the Germans that question.
    Most people here, i think, use cash because they work strictly on a budget. That budget being calculated by what they spend in experience over the next week or month, and then taking out that amount in cash and spending only that. It does help in tailoring your expenses to what you actually have. Many extend that to any larger purchases as well - i know people who when buying a car will build up a cash reserve by maxing out the daily limit at the ATM over a few weeks, and then buy the car in cash; and that's not something quirky, that's pretty normal here. Goes so far that there are legal requirements for how to handle house sales for cash money, even if most wouldn't do that.

    Up until a while ago you also had elderly people who simply wouldn't trust banks or the state with regard to money. My old neighbor from two decades ago born sometime around 1900 went through four currency reforms in his life, "losing" money every time. Hence why he kept most of his assets in cash and valuables.

  11. #176
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    Ask the Germans that question. 80% of purchases there are made in cash. If an entire First World nation can get by just fine using cash for most everything, why can't people exercise their own freedom of choice, and do the same here?
    Nothing wrong with using cash. I'm a proponent. The reason i suggested you use a CC instead of debit card is because you said you were robbed. If you can get by without plastic then great.

    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    Most people here, i think, use cash because they work strictly on a budget. That budget being calculated by what they spend in experience over the next week or month, and then taking out that amount in cash and spending only that. It does help in tailoring your expenses to what you actually have. Many extend that to any larger purchases as well - i know people who when buying a car will build up a cash reserve by maxing out the daily limit at the ATM over a few weeks, and then buy the car in cash; and that's not something quirky, that's pretty normal here. Goes so far that there are legal requirements for how to handle house sales for cash money, even if most wouldn't do that.
    As a way of organising spending this makes perfect sense. Its easier to deal with atoms than with bytes. Atoms don't replicate, they are either with you or not. It's easy to go crazy with e-payments because there isn't a real sense of how much is going out. You don't see it, you only imagine it.

    The way CC companies try to hook people in India into using their products is offering discounts in many portals, so called incentives. Discounts up to 15% off the bill up to a certain amount if you use this or that CC. I wondered how they made a living out of it and some one told me once you get people used to it they never stop. So best way is to get everyone hooked.

    Only time i had a CC is when i was in the states. Never bothered to get one here because the protections aren't half as good. We still have a way to go with consumer friendly laws, right now if something goes wrong the bank does its best to wriggle out of the loss. The record is mixed if your cc gets cloned and misused whether you will ever recover the loss.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 08 Jul 18, at 21:19.

  12. #177
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    Most people here, i think, use cash because they work strictly on a budget. That budget being calculated by what they spend in experience over the next week or month, and then taking out that amount in cash and spending only that. It does help in tailoring your expenses to what you actually have
    Thanks. You partially answered the question Gun Grape asked me.

    I'll also cite these tidbits from the Bloomberg article:
    Issing, the former ECB economist, accounts for this demand by making reference to an oft-repeated German maxim: “Cash is printed freedom”—offering the ability to transact with autonomy and anonymity in a country with good historical reasons to value both.
    Yet for many Germans, the convenience of electronic payment is beside the point. Rather, the use of cash has, to a surprising extent, become a proxy for profound concerns about trust, privacy, and the role of the state. Whereas in most countries the choice of how to organize purchases is basically a question of utility, in Germany it’s freighted with much deeper connotations. “Cash, to me, is an important public good by which you measure the transparency and legal order of a society, and also the respect for the individual and the private sphere,” says Max Otte, an economist in Cologne who leads Save Our Cash, a national campaign that opposes measures to restrict the use of physical currency.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...ssed-with-cash
    Last edited by Ironduke; 08 Jul 18, at 21:06.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  13. #178
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    I think most people who own credit cards in Germany only own and use them for highly specific purposes, such as for buying things on Amazon or similar. For the same reason - in combination with the budget management thing - prepaid credit cards are also becoming en vogue in Germany in recent years (banks have been pushing them for that too). After all, if you prepay the card, it becomes something that you buy in order to procure something else that you want to specifically buy; you don't buy credit on a costly prepaid card on a whim.
    There are also some companies that similar to India offer incentives - the rail operator Deutsche Bahn for example - but they tend to be not that successful. Deutsche Bahn even dropped the credit card thing in the late 90s for lack of customer demand and only reintroduced it ten years later.

    On average only one in three Germans even owns a credit card, and on average makes two purchases per month with it, for an average value of somewhere around 25-30 Euro per purchase.
    Last edited by kato; 08 Jul 18, at 21:23.

  14. #179
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    I think most people who own credit cards in Germany only own and use them for highly specific purposes, such as for buying things on Amazon or similar.
    This would be my reason to get one. To use with alibaba or similar. To buy from the states or europe and use shipping companies to deliver what isn't sold here

    Amazon india handles net banking already.

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Amazon india handles net banking already.
    In Germany Amazon will not accept online bank transfers if you're profiled as living in an area with a lowered credit rate. It seems to be mostly tied to street adresses, not an actual individual credit score. As in, i have to pay Amazon with a credit card because those students two houses down the road don't have the cash in their accounts for their purchases...

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