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Thread: Trump scraps Iranian nuclear deal

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Imperator is where we are headed, Trump has at least slowed that dreaded day.
    My god...you're serious aren't you. The guy says that president-for-life is "great". And suggests that we "give that a shot some day"

    And you think he's at least slowed down the imperium.

    Dude. What in the hell is wrong with you??
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to take rank with those poor, timid spirits who know neither victory nor defeat ~ Theodore Roosevelt

  2. #32
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    and that's not exactly the only time he's talked about how great autocracy is, and how he's besties with autocrats, lol.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  3. #33
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    My god...you're serious aren't you. The guy says that president-for-life is "great". And suggests that we "give that a shot some day"

    And you think he's at least slowed down the imperium.

    Dude. What in the hell is wrong with you??
    The word "detached" might work here...

  4. #34
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    and that's not exactly the only time he's talked about how great autocracy is, and how he's besties with autocrats, lol.
    During the cold war everyone was besties with autocrats at the expense of democracy in many countries. Made for a more stable world order

    If you had the misfortune of coming from a country that was important strategically or otherwise resource rich you were as good as screwed.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 18 May 18, at 16:31.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Imperator is where we are headed, Trump has at least slowed that dreaded day.
    In a way. Imperator was an acclamation of troops for a general who successfully lead them in battle. Given Trumps reticence to serve and age it seems unlikely that such an acclamation could be earned by him. Dictator or Tyrant is what I think others mean rather than Imperator. Augustus was Princeps politically basically meaning something "first Senator" in today's terms. Sure he was hailed "Imperator" too but that held no political position but was more akin to claiming that a general deserved a Triumph.

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    During the cold war everyone was besties with autocrats at the expense of democracy in many countries. Made for a more stable world order

    If you had the misfortune of coming from a country that was important strategically or otherwise resource rich you were as good as screwed.
    not personally admired, though.

    ie the quote attributed at times to either FDR, Truman, or LBJ was: "he's a bastard, but at least he's our bastard."

    now we have a President who openly admires the bastards.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    FDR, Truman, or LBJ
    Nixon, not LBJ. And in all three cases in its correct version it was directed at the Somozas in Nicaragua. All three generations of them. I guess the - relatively common - LBJ attribution is because "it's gotta be a Democrat who said that, and of course it couldn't be JFK. Or Carter."

  8. #38
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Maybe Kato could comment on this for me since there isn't much in U.S. news regarding how the various European countries are approaching this situation.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/...a-1208528.html

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    The German government to some extent had a "rally the allies first" approach - two-prong, with Merkel visiting Russia and China while Maas was gonna work the G20 summit. They were a bit overrun in this approach not just by other European governments (under the leadership of Macron and Federica Mogherini, our EU foreign minister) but also by the German industry which has increasingly been stating that "enough is enough".

    Macron in my opinion is just trying to prove the French populace wrong, which has been accusing him in recent months of being too buddy-buddy with Trump.

    The one to look for is Italy. Biggest trade partner of Iran within the EU, representing one-quarter of all trade between Iran and the EU. Not represented in the E3 that represent Europe in the JCPOA talks. In political turmoil as usual, and that's important in the current situation - besides Mogherini (who used to be with Renzi) making her statements in Italy instead of from Brussels the still incumbent government is also using the opportunity for publicity. And Italy does have enough throw-weight within Europe to move something. If you look at Iranian press agency releases they're currently really trying to lobby in that geographic direction too.

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    In a way, it seems like it's no win for Trump vis a vis Russia. If he tries a concerted effort to rebuild relations with Russia, the Trump-haters no matter what'ers -- the majority of whom are so-called progressive Democrats -- will claim this is proof he was a stooge of Putin all along and part of the Grand Russia Collusion Conspiracy. But if he toughens the US into a more adversarial stance to Russia (not much stooge behavior here) including increasing the US military as mentioned in the article, he'll be condemned for reverting to the same old unproductive pattern that has plagued US-Russia from administration to administration.

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  12. #42
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Well written article from Iran on India's options

    Iran's outreach to India after US exit from nuclear deal faces obstacles | Al Monitor | Jun 05 2018

    it remains unclear to what extent New Delhi’s support will impact the actions of Indian companies when it comes to trading with Iran. However, what is clear is that large Indian companies such as Reliance Industries, which have immense interests in the US and world economy, will likely abide by Washington’s sanctions, just as their Chinese and European counterparts will.

    However, state-owned and small- or medium-sized enterprises may continue their interactions with Iran. Therefore, while Tehran can be hopeful about New Delhi’s support for trade and investment, Indian business leaders can be assumed to side with Washington.
    Newslist i'm using to follow this whole debacle

    The Iranist
    Last edited by Double Edge; 11 Jun 18, at 04:03.

  13. #43
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    Full article: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-i...-idUSKBN1J91KN

    Iran says will begin uranium enrichment at Fordow if nuclear deal unravels

    BEIRUT (Reuters) - Iran will begin uranium enrichment at its Fordow plant and will install new nuclear equipment at its Natanz facility if it withdraws from a nuclear deal with major powers, said the spokesman for the Atomic Energy Organisation of Iran (AEOI).

    The fate of the 2015 nuclear deal is unclear after the United States withdrew from it. The other signatory nations - Russia, China, Germany, Britain and France - are trying to salvage the accord, which imposed curbs on Iran’s nuclear program in return for a lifting of some economic sanctions.

    Iran has two vast enrichment sites, at Natanz and Fordow. Much of Natanz is deep underground and Fordow is buried inside a mountain, which is widely believed to protect them from aerial bombardment.

    AEOI spokesman Behrouz Kamalvandi said in an interview published on Wednesday that new work would begin on the nuclear program on the orders of Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. He did not specify what kind of new equipment might be installed at Natanz.

    “Currently the Supreme Leader has ordered that the programs be carried out within the parameters of the nuclear deal,” Kamalvandi told the Young Journalists’ Club (YJC) in an interview.

    “And when he gives the order we will announce the programs for operating outside of the nuclear deal for reviving Fordow,” he added.

    Ali Akbar Salehi, the head of the AEOI, announced last week that Iran had begun work on a facility to construct advanced centrifuges at Natanz.

    The announcement appeared at least in part to be an effort to pressure the remaining signatories to preserve the 2015 deal.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  14. #44
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Thing is even if the remaining signatories stick to the deal its unclear how long it will hold after. For the deal to survive the world would have to apply counter sanctions. All up in the air at the moment.

    What are the milestones to be aware of here. Any dates from the american side.

    The answer to the question what happens now from me is -- don't know

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