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  • Originally posted by Versus View Post
    Its not the sex that they wanted, they wanted intimacy and love, although they interpreted that as sex. In both cases, Eliot's and Alek's it was the vision of reality that was perceived by them to be worse than death, that compelled them to commit these acts. Both cases were suicides in essence, while the murders were just the mechanics that would ensure that.
    Why are you referring to these guys by their names? This Alek guy is no longer Alek. He is the Toronto Van Murderer.

    The Toronto Van Murderer should have bought a ticket to Amsterdam, or gone to see a masseuse. Fuck that guy.
    "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
      With certain people, especially friends, certainly tell.

      If they judge you or tell other people what you confided in them, you know they can't be trusted and they're not your friend. ;-)

      Easy way to separate the wheat from the chaff.*
      Let me give you another analogy. You will have friends who hate Trump, like Trump, couldn't care less.

      You will temper what you say with the first group and play along with the second regardless of what you think of Trump

      You won't allow things to get in the way of a relationship

      *this stratagem might not be applicable in countries such as India. Works very well in the West, as long as you're a private citizen and don't work for the government
      On the contrary what Clinton said is a very valid strategem for the east in general. It's surprising a westerner would say it.

      In the west if there is a problem , you deal with it , you fix it, rinse & repeat until done.

      In the east some things are best left unsaid. Not worth the hassle. More closed and set in their ways. This is the old world after all where everything might not always be possible

      Things do change with time though, slowly as is inevitable.

      A good example is retirement homes. In India, in the 80s, retirement homes was some western idea where families are broken because everybody knows in India we take care of our elderly. The idea that children could dump thier aging parents in some home was just callous. Fast forward to today and there are quite few retirement homes around. Now all of a sudden Indian society isn't as broken as the west
      Last edited by Double Edge; 29 Apr 18,, 14:57.

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      • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
        On the contrary what Clinton said is a very valid strategem for the east in general. It's surprising a westerner would say it.
        I agree that it is. And it may very well be a valid stratagem for men living in rural America, and/or have a wife and kids, and/or who are working for the government.

        As a bachelor, who is a private citizen working in the private sector, I don't have to worry about security clearances or SSBIs. I confide things in friends to see how they react, who they tell, and if they judge me.

        Then I know to end the friendship, if they gossip or judge. Especially if the friend tells his wife/girlfriend.
        Last edited by Ironduke; 29 Apr 18,, 15:21.
        "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
          Lot of dark thoughts. Some secrets are out. This thread infuriates me and Snapper. And the Colonel doesn't give a shit.
          How applicable is what happened in Toronto in the Indian context ?

          key question i'm interested in. I see many familiar patterns.

          Its one thing to talk about frustrations which is a good thing because bottling it up is bad and another very different matter to act out on them as happened

          What that Vox article made clear is talking about them in the wrong company does the exact opposite. Rather than being a form of group therapy its can serve to make people act out in harmful ways. The positive feedback loop ends up radicalising people.

          We have a shitload more yoofs than they do. Demographic dividend and all. All got phones. All love their whatsapp groups.

          There is no 8:1 bloody sex ratio in India more like 1:8

          Now what ?

          Some crap happens in the west, we say decadent west, a few years later it happens here, we go oh crap!
          Last edited by Double Edge; 29 Apr 18,, 15:17.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
            Some crap happens in the west, we say decadent west, a few years later it happens here, we go oh crap!
            Or it was always going on in the East, and people make-believed and pretended it wasn't going on, until things got more relaxed and it came out into the open.
            "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
              I don't see what's wrong with pointing out that if you're really that hard up for female companionship, there are ways you can get it where nobody gets hurt, and the both of you part happily, with both having got what they want.
              I rather think Oracle was referring your (and the Colonel's) somewhat surprising knowledge regarding 'Ladies of the Night', their charges etc... I do not really have a view on prostitution except when a Lady is forced into the 'oldest trade' by deception and against her wishes (as many who are 'people trafficked' are). If a Lady wishes to charge clients for her companionship - no matter how much it may be against my own personal morals for me to do so - I do not see that I have the right to stop her as she wishes. I do not like some foods personally or some 'modern art' but if other people want to make really hot food or paint obscure monstrosities and some people will pay for it - who am I to stop them? It is just respecting their individual wishes as the individuals they are.

              Nor do I really have a problem approaching a man if I am interested in him. Obviously it is preferable if a man approaches the Lady first - particularly in Slavonic culture where masculinity among the male population is set at great value. So for a Lady to approach a male Slav may make feel him feel inferior compared to other men - silly but true. That though is a Slavonic hang up - in England or France though it was never such a problem. My problem is that I - just as everyone else in the world - am a weirdo. You're in your local pub/bar aged 18/19 and my nose was usually in a book. "What are you reading?" some guy asks... well it could be anything - ancient history, languages, abstruse science, philosophy or something but it is very unlikely to be some recent "best seller" or a newspaper. That is the way I am and to most guys looking for "fun" at that sort of age it was not always the best enticement. Nor am I particularly 'sociable' with people I do not know. I do not like crowds or loud noise. Supper with good friends and interesting conversation is a much nicer evening for me than going clubbing or to some mass 'rave' party. I went to the Glastonbury Festival once (big summer festival in England) with some friends - had to leave the first day because there were too many people.

              So yea I am 'weird' to some people but to me I am the normal and all the rest of you are the weirdos - though everyone else is different in their own way. Nobody is the 'normal' and if you were exactly "normal" - drank the mean average amount of alcohol, performed every other behaviour exactly in the mean average way - well you would be a real freak because 99% of other people do not. So to say I am 'normal' in some ways has no real meaning compared to the reality of who people are.

              Of course there are some loons who take to killing innocent members of their own communities. It happens more in the US because of course guns are more prevalent there as a right. I believe Switzerland has the highest level of gun of gun ownership in Europe and after that right now probably Ukraine. There were over 500,000 registered guns (including air guns) in Kyiv during Maidan. Nor do I really blame guns - a maniac will kill with a knife from the kitchen draw if he/she has to but guns do perhaps inflate the number of victims. I do not doubt that those who go off and commit these crimes could have been helped before they were driven to such extremities but for one reason or another - and I doubt very much it has anything to do with not being able to find a girlfriend or use the services of a prostitute (whom some murders prey on) - they feel their families and society as a whole has let them down. Maybe a "nobody understands me" thing or "Nobody listens to me". Sometimes people feel "left out". Not a problem for most people - we are all to some extent 'alone' anyway. Those who cannot understand that the 'human condition' is pretty much the same for everyone and feel they have kill others for no reason to draw attention to their problems or end their existence perhaps are freaks who basically cannot treat others with the same respect they would like for themselves. But respect is reciprocal; earned not given.

              All humans are individuals and to categorise all men or women or Jews or French as a whole and say they are "haughty", "stand offish", "reserved", "proud" or whatever is wrong. Not all Slavic men are wrapped up in the importance of their 'man's role' - some are even gay! Categorisation of groups of individuals will always be wrong. Respect the individual for who he/she is, to to understand them, what they want, aspire to, dream of - and respect it. That is the basic tenet of respect for others and by doing that you can earn their respect.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
                Or it was always going on in the East, and people make-believed and pretended it wasn't going on, until things got more relaxed and it came out into the open.
                Right, we go from not talking about it to now its on the evening news in exceptional cases with attendant political fallout for the incumbent party.

                But still not really wanting to talk about it. Can't talk about because of pressure groups

                Comment


                • Originally posted by snapper View Post
                  I rather think Oracle was referring to your somewhat surprising knowledge regarding 'Ladies of the Night', their charges etc... I do not really have a view on prostitution except when a Lady is forced into the 'oldest trade' by deception and against her wishes (as many who are 'people trafficked' are). If a Lady wishes to charge clients for her companionship - no matter how much it may be against my own personal morals for me to do so - I do not see that I have the right to stop her as she wishes. I do not like some foods personally or some 'modern art' but if other people want to make really hot food or paint obscure monstrosities and some people will pay for it - who am I to stop them? It is just respecting their individual wishes as the individuals they are.
                  I'm not going to speak on behalf of anyone else, but everyone needs to eat. As long as she's not victimized into the trade, she's working independently, and nobody gets hurt - nothing wrong with it, in my opinion.

                  I'm not really familiar with the feminist movement, but from what I understand, the predominant view in that movement, or at least within sub-groups in that movement, is more or less the same as what I just stated.

                  If he or she is a Christian, that's what last rites are for, when one reaches the end of one's life.

                  I'm sure you've been to Germany, and I'm sure you know half the population in some towns around US/NATO military bases are "ladies of the night". I'm a bit confused when you claim to be surprised.

                  If there's no women on base, or fraternization with female soldiers is disallowed or looked down upon, the rule is do what you gotta do, just be back in the barracks at a certain time.

                  It's dangerous for these men not to have these outlets. On a military base, in a non-combat situation, where there's a large population of male soldiers trained to kill, who handle dangerous weapons and equipment, quartered amongst a civilian population - there's too much potential for male-male aggression, where arguments and conflicts could otherwise escalate very quickly.

                  Hence why there's so many "ladies of the night" and nobody cares as long as you're back in the barracks in time.
                  Last edited by Ironduke; 30 Apr 18,, 08:10.
                  "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by snapper View Post
                    My problem is that I - just as everyone else in the world - am a weirdo. You're in your local pub/bar aged 18/19 and my nose was usually in a book. "What are you reading?" some guy asks... well it could be anything - ancient history, languages, abstruse science, philosophy or something but it is very unlikely to be some recent "best seller" or a newspaper. That is the way I am and to most guys looking for "fun" at that sort of age it was not always the best enticement. Nor am I particularly 'sociable' with people I do not know.
                    It applies the other way too, any guy who did what you said would get the same treatment from the other party. What annoys me is you have to dumb it down if you want to hold their interest very early on. They like the way you look, don't screw it up with what you say.

                    i was listening to a talk and this lady all of 25 whenever asked what she did -- advising about nuclear weapons deterrence and the reply invariably around bars in DC was oh! : D

                    I do not like crowds or loud noise. Supper with good friends and interesting conversation is a much nicer evening for me than going clubbing or to some mass 'rave' party. I went to the Glastonbury Festival once (big summer festival in England) with some friends - had to leave the first day because there were too many people.
                    You didn't train properly. I knew people that were locals and quite a few were at entry points, which meant getting in and out was easy. So a proper shower was also available.

                    Glasters isn't for everybody but one key test was if she could handle all of it without whinging too loud then she was a keeper : D

                    Country girls can take it, ones with the heels in the city such delicate things not.

                    A lot of variety there as far as music and people.

                    Couldn't really get into the Woodstock thing on the other side of the pond as i didn't have the connections. Definitely a group activity and being in the right crowd goes a long way
                    Last edited by Double Edge; 29 Apr 18,, 16:01.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
                      Why are you referring to these guys by their names? This Alek guy is no longer Alek. He is the Toronto Van Murderer.

                      The Toronto Van Murderer should have bought a ticket to Amsterdam, or gone to see a masseuse. Fuck that guy.
                      No problem I will call him like that. Again, sex is not the issue, it is their identity.

                      Comment


                      • If you really want to go deeper into this subject there are few definitions that need to be addressed.
                        1.What is Chad/Tyron?
                        2.What is Stacy/Ashley?
                        3.What is a nice guy as an abstract ?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
                          As long as she's not victimized into the trade, she's working independently, and nobody gets hurt - nothing wrong with it, in my opinion.
                          If it is a Ladies choice I do not feel I have any right to stop her taking a path that I might myself believe misguided. I may not approve of it but I respect the right of others to act as they wish.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by snapper View Post
                            If it is a Ladies choice I do not feel I have any right to stop her taking a path that I might myself believe misguided. I may not approve of it but I respect the right of others to act as they wish.
                            You've made statements, as the current sole representative of the other half of the human species on the forum, that we don't understand women. Some of us do, some of us don't, or are somewhere in between.

                            I'll give you a lesson in Human Male Psychology 101. This applies to 99% of men.

                            If he is sexually satisfied, he is safe.
                            If he is sexually unsatisfied, he is potentially dangerous.

                            Women have a tendency to overthink, seek out over-complicated answers for simple things, search for hidden meanings, and make the mistaken assumption that men think like women do, etc.

                            Straight up - men are animals. Simple, uncomplicated beings at our core - we really just like to eat meat, have fun, drink some beers, etc.

                            We pretend to be mature and grown-up when the situation demands it - but it's all an act. When nobody is looking, we're children/teenagers again, like monkeys swinging from the trees, eating fruit, and having fun.

                            When someone is looking, again, we go back to pretending to be mature and grown-up.

                            Oh, and a man with an IQ of 50 is a dumb monkey. A man with an IQ of 200 is a smart monkey. Doesn't change the fact, that men are animals.
                            Last edited by Ironduke; 29 Apr 18,, 16:43.
                            "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                              You didn't train properly. I knew people that were locals and quite a few were at entry points, which meant getting in and out was easy. So a proper shower was also available.

                              Glasters isn't for everybody but one key test was if she could handle all of it without whinging too loud then she was a keeper : D

                              Country girls can take it, ones with the heels in the city such delicate things not.
                              I have no problem camping or anything - even in snow. I was brought up from 6 to 18 mostly in the country (boarding schools) but with a fair amount of sailing in between. Not keen on cities either for the same reason as I did not like Glastonbury; too many people. Could only do the London 'tube' with headphones and a book. Not keen on Kyiv or the metro there either but have a car and a rented house on the outskirts there. Groups of people I know or in a more formal setting - a yacht club or office etc are no problem nor is meeting a small group of new people. I just don't like vast crowds of unknown people - most of whom I do not want to know - jumping around to music so loud I cannot hear myself thinking. Each to their own and I am glad you enjoy 'Glasters'; give me the Tor and the Monastery, a pub lunch and a wander round the bookshops and then a hotel room in Wells (which is a nicer place altogether in my view).

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
                                You've made statements, as the current sole representative of the other half of the human species on the forum, that we don't understand women. Some of us do, some of us don't, or are somewhere in between.
                                I certainly meant to imply no categorically statement regarding men. I do not think they are all the same at all. I have male friends and colleagues who I basically disagree with 99% of the time but who I can understand their point and be friends with. There are other men who I might largely agree with but could never be on friendly terms with. Why because some are 'civil' or 'polite' if you wish to call it that while others are just - well not. The basis of civility or politeness is respect for others - even if you not agree with them.

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