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Thread: 2018 Toronto Van Murders

  1. #301
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    It's not that simple for a lot of guys. A lot of girls will look at a guy's dating profile and think "oh my god, what a great catch," see his utterly boring personality, and pass. That happened to my one buddy who got nexted like 60 times in a year.
    Personally, I don't use dating apps. I've tried them a couple times, but couldn't bring myself to do it. I look for women the way guys did prior to the invention of the internet.

    Then again, the women I'm looking for also tend not to use dating apps, at least not the extent of millennials, and whatever the younger generation is called, do.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 09 May 18, at 15:11.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  2. #302
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    Personally, I don't use dating apps. I've tried them a couple times, but couldn't bring myself to do it. I look for women the way guys did prior to the invention of the internet.

    Then again, the women I'm looking for also tend not to use dating apps, at least not the extent of millennials, and whatever the younger generation is called, do.
    I'm with you, dating apps are stupid and online dating in general is stupid. Guys should meet girls the traditional way. It has the added benefit of seeing more of the world and building your social circles, which are good things just by themselves.

    The exception are attractive guys interested in pulling a large number of women. Technology always is a useful leverage to those with natural advantages. Why not exploit economies of scale when Tinder and the girls themselves do all the work for you?
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  3. #303
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    I'm with you, dating apps are stupid and online dating in general is stupid. Guys should meet girls the traditional way. It has the added benefit of seeing more of the world and building your social circles, which are good things just by themselves.
    Dating websites in the late 1990s/early 2000s were OK. They were the option of last resort, for those who find themselves in circumstances in which they absolutely have no means or luck in finding somebody the conventional way.

    Instead, they have become for the millennial/younger generation, the first or even the only resort.

    The exception are attractive guys interested in pulling a large number of women. Technology always is a useful leverage to those with natural advantages. Why not exploit economies of scale when Tinder and the girls themselves do all the work for you?
    Yeah, these girls are just getting used and disposed of. I think she knows exactly what she's getting into, eyes wide open, but she thinks that she'll be that one exception, that he'll see how good she is, how perfect they would be together, and she'll be the lucky gal who beats all the competition, and gets herself that guy.

    Then the moment she walks out the door, the guy swipes right on girl #353, and girl #352 gets strung along or never gets a call back.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 09 May 18, at 15:47.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  4. #304
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    In the economically stable countries in the West, it takes a long time to acquire an education to assure a stable middle/upper-middle class income, and student debts interfere with the ability to get a mortgage.

    I would refer you again to Benjamin Franklin's Observations Concerning the Increase of Mankind, Peopling of Countries, etc.

    Ignore the old-timey 1700s racism and focus on the core of the argument.
    I'm going to post what I see as the eternal wisdom and correctness of Benjamin Franklin's observations regarding marriage, birth rates, families, etc. The relevant points, minus as much the old-timey 1700s racism as possible.

    He wrote this in 1751. In my view, it's still just as relevant today as it was then, and it'll be just as relevant in the year 2285, by which time we ought to have space lasers, relativistic kill vehicles, and Dyson Spheres, if we haven't kicked an owl goal on the planet by then.

    What was true regarding his observations of Europe then, has become mostly true of America now.

    Historical events such as the Industrial Revolution, the Green Revolution, revolutions in hygiene and medicine, which Franklin could not have foreseen; these temporarily lifted the limits on population growth in Europe, and accelerated it even further in America, but only temporarily.

    Once the limits those revolutions afforded were reached, things reverted once again: birth rates fell, the marriage rate fell, the age of spouses upon their first marriage increased, and again, what was true of Europe then is true again now, and what was true in Europe then and again now, is now mostly the case for America as well.

    It has also become true for most of the rest of the world as well, with perhaps sub-Saharan Africa being the most prominent example of where it is not (yet).

    _______________________________
    Observations concerning the Increase of Mankind, Peopling of Countries, &c.
    Benjamin Franklin

    1. Tables of the Proportion of Marriages to Births, of Deaths to Births, of Marriages to the Numbers of Inhabitants, &c. form’d on Observations made upon the Bills of Mortality, Christnings, &c. of populous Cities, will not suit Countries; nor will Tables form’d on Observations made on full settled old Countries, as Europe, suit new Countries, as America.

    2. For People increase in Proportion to the Number of Marriages, and that is greater in Proportion to the Ease and Convenience of supporting a Family. When Families can be easily supported, more Persons marry, and earlier in Life.

    3. In Cities, where all Trades, Occupations and Offices are full, many delay marrying, till they can see how to bear the Charges of a Family; which Charges are greater in Cities, as Luxury is more common: many live single during Life, and continue Servants to Families, Journeymen to Trades, &c. hence Cities do not by natural Generation supply themselves with Inhabitants; the Deaths are more than the Births.

    4. In Countries full settled, the Case must be nearly the same; all Lands being occupied and improved to the Heighth: those who cannot get Land, must Labour for others that have it; when Labourers are plenty, their Wages will be low; by low Wages a Family is supported with Difficulty; this Difficulty deters many from Marriage, who therefore long continue Servants and single. Only as the Cities take Supplies of People from the Country, and thereby make a little more Room in the Country; Marriage is a little more incourag’d there, and the Births exceed the Deaths.

    5. Europe is generally full settled with Husbandmen, Manufacturers, &c. and therefore cannot now much increase in People: America is chiefly occupied by Indians, who subsist mostly by Hunting. But as the Hunter, of all Men, requires the greatest Quantity of Land from whence to draw his Subsistence, (the Husbandman subsisting on much less, the Gardner on still less, and the Manufacturer requiring least of all), The Europeans found America as fully settled as it well could be by Hunters; yet these having large Tracks, were easily prevail’d on to part with Portions of Territory to the new Comers, who did not much interfere with the Natives in Hunting, and furnish’d them with many Things they wanted.

    6. Land being thus plenty in America, and so cheap as that a labouring Man, that understands Husbandry, can in a short Time save Money enough to purchase a Piece of new Land sufficient for a Plantation, whereon he may subsist a Family; such are not afraid to marry; for if they even look far enough forward to consider how their Children when grown up are to be provided for, they see that more Land is to be had at Rates equally easy, all Circumstances considered.

    7. Hence Marriages in America are more general, and more generally early, than in Europe. And if it is reckoned there, that there is but one Marriage per Annum among 100 Persons, perhaps we may here reckon two; and if in Europe they have but 4 Births to a Marriage (many of their Marriages being late) we may here reckon 8, of which if one half grow up, and our Marriages are made, reckoning one with another at 20 Years of Age, our People must at least be doubled every 20 Years.

    8. But notwithstanding this Increase, so vast is the Territory of North-America, that it will require many Ages to settle it fully; and till it is fully settled, Labour will never be cheap here, where no Man continues long a Labourer for others, but gets a Plantation of his own, no Man continues long a Journeyman to a Trade, but goes among those new Settlers, and sets up for himself, &c. Hence Labour is no cheaper now, in Pennsylvania, than it was 30 Years ago, tho’ so many Thousand labouring People have been imported.

    19. The great Increase of Offspring in particular Families, is not always owing to greater Fecundity of Nature, but sometimes to Examples of Industry in the Heads, and industrious Education; by which the Children are enabled to provide better for themselves, and their marrying early, is encouraged from the Prospect of good Subsistence.

    20. If there be a Sect therefore, in our Nation, that regard Frugality and Industry as religious Duties, and educate their Children therein, more than others commonly do; such Sect must consequently increase more by natural Generation, than any other Sect in Britain.

    Note: &c = etc.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 10 May 18, at 16:03.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    I prize mobility, flexibility, and experiences over material possessions. I have very low overhead, and have relatively high income when the contract work is there. I send a substantial portion of my earnings to family members in need, and when work is slow, I visit to provide to labor and goods that they need, at no cost to them.

    What I do is extremely rare for a white college-educated American to do, perhaps almost unheard of, but it's a very common practice in various immigrant communities.

    If a woman is looking to make a home, and fill it with children, as they oft tend to do, I'm not an option. So I pursue other options. To be honest, the fear of potentially being devastated in a divorce, or being trapped in a terrible marriage, is also on the back of my mind. It isn't the primary motivating factor influencing why I do what I do though.

    I don't really think my personality and background is suitable for a stable marriage anyways, at least not until I'm in my 50s. At that point I might consider being a 50-something bachelor with a 40-something spinster girlfriend, keeping separate finances and separate homes.
    Celebacy by choice is not incel. Incels are pathetic creatures who seek to be the victim rather than engage in self improvement. They are 3's and 4's thinking they deserve to bang 10's with out having 10 figure bank accounts. Incels with functioning plumbing and who lack major disfigurement deserve nothing but contempt and ridicule.

  6. #306
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Celebacy by choice is not incel. Incels are pathetic creatures who seek to be the victim rather than engage in self improvement. They are 3's and 4's thinking they deserve to bang 10's with out having 10 figure bank accounts. Incels with functioning plumbing and who lack major disfigurement deserve nothing but contempt and ridicule.
    I wasn't aware of this "incel" ideology until I saw this thread, and even then, I had to Google it yesterday to find out the definition.

    The problem, as I see it, is we have cultivated an extreme, out-of-control entitlement culture in the United States especially, and in the West more generally.

    Nobody is owed anything except basic rights, and to be treated with a certain level of dignity, so long as they treat others with dignity.

    There's this idea that far too many people have, that they are owed happiness, and if they're not happy, it's the responsibility of others to give them happiness. They genuinely believed they are owed, and it's someone else's fault if this other person/persons don't make them happy.

    Anybody who thinks like this has severe psychological problems. I feel that this entitlement complex, especially prominent in the US, has given rise to entirely new psychiatric disorders, that are not yet classified in the DSM-5 (which itself is highly imperfect, e.g. I don't think "ADHD" is a mental illness. "ADHD" people should be car salesmen, tour guides, scouts for hunting parties, hawkers vending beer from tubs at concerts/sporting events, etc., where they can leverage what would be "illness" if they worked, say, in an office environment, into a mental asset).

    Life's not fair and not all of us won the birth lottery. I look at these guys, they've got food in the cupboard, a roof over their head, electricity, entertainment, and so many other luxuries. Maybe they should take a trip to the Third World.

    I've had to make my way down streets, past hundreds of people, stepping over them, who had limbs falling off the bone, skin falling off their face, they were lying there rotting to death. Some looked like they were sleeping, some of those were probably dead. A couple dollars worth of penicillin taken timely would have prevented it. When I begin to dwell on misfortunes I've had, thinking about what I saw there usually sets me straight.

    Yet we have these "incels" who enjoy all of these First World luxuries, they can get antibiotics when they get sick, but they feel they are entitled, dehumanize women who aren't giving them sex, then run them over because they ain't got laid.

    So they don't have a Beamer, a half-million dollar house, and they haven't gotten laid. So what, they're still better off than 90% of the world's population. And there's plenty of married/divorced men in the United States who are in far worse circumstances than a single "incel".

    And if they're really that hard up for sex, there's always alternative outlets outside of marriage and cohabitation where they can get satisfaction. They might even learn a few things about women in the process, gain some confidence, and stop being "incels" some years later. And if the guy ain't got a girlfriend and there's no other options, I'm pretty sure with all the World of Warcraft they're playing and all the garbage they're posting on the "incel" subreddit, the guy has at least got high-speed internet. There's plenty of streaming options and even free live cam shows they could be watching.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 10 May 18, at 18:39.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  7. #307
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    I am not a huge fan of the incel ideology, but I don't see how it is worse than the whiny Millennials who want to take my guns because they feel unsafe, despite being in the safest environment that's ever existed, or want to increase my taxes and force companies to give them great-paying jobs, despite living in the wealthiest economy that's ever existed.

    These guys are mostly just depressed and angry losers who vent on the internet because no one in the real world likes them. They're barely worth noticing.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  8. #308
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    These guys are mostly just depressed and angry losers who vent on the internet because no one in the real world likes them. They're barely worth noticing.
    I think you have cause and effect reversed. Nobody in the real world likes them, because they've worked themselves into an angry and depressed psychological state.

    I don't see how it is worse than the whiny Millennials who want...
    For those afflicted with the entitlement complex, it has taken on new, strange, and increasingly bizarre forms with each succeeding generation...

    Somewhat unrelated, but I still cannot believe how 95% of people aged 18-35 don't know what direction east or west is, unless Google tells them.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 10 May 18, at 19:37.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  9. #309
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    Maybe in some cases. You can easily get jaded when you run into failure too many times, even if you started out a bright, amiable whipper-snapper.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  10. #310
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    Maybe in some cases. You can easily get jaded when you run into failure too many times, even if you started out a bright, amiable whipper-snapper.
    One can always be contented with less. I know I am. If one gets permanently jaded from failure, it means they felt entitled to "big success" and cannot get over it. Solution: be a happy-go-lucky guy and settle for smaller successes.

    I help out female relatives (most of whom live in the upper Midwest "Appalachia" or "Ozarks"), rent by the week two miles from downtown, and own practically nothing but the barest necessities for work and living. Not the best neighborhood, but it's better than Philly, and just a few blocks from the metro light rail.

    If I want to have fun, I go out. The game is always on at the bar, or I could just go to the stadium and watch the game too. I always run into interesting people when I go out too. And if I dress up nice, smell nice, and make myself look nice, there's always a lonely 40-something business traveling woman at one of the downtown hotel bars, and her place is but a 20-second elevator ride up from the bar.

    I otherwise help out metro area friends who have kids/are married for free with computer work, home maintenance/repairs/remodels, landscaping, yard work, when I get bored of everything else I'm doing, and work is slow. Get a 12-pack, fire up the grill, shoot the shit, and get to work.

    This lifestyle leaves me satisfied. I can't have it all, so I've settled for what is within my means to get.

    These "incels" could easily be doing something similar and stop sh-tposting and obsessing over their "failures" on the internet.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 10 May 18, at 20:18.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    One can always be contented with less. I know I am. If one gets permanently jaded from failure, it means they felt entitled to "big success" and cannot get over it. Solution: be a happy-go-lucky guy and settle for smaller successes.

    I help out female relatives (most of whom live in the upper Midwest "Appalachia" or "Ozarks"),

    This lifestyle leaves me satisfied. I can't have it all, so I've settled for what is within my means to get.

    These "incels" could easily be doing something similar and stop sh-tposting and obsessing over their "failures" on the internet.
    I trail ride in the Ozarks, I use a 2001 Nissan Pathfinder I've built on the cheap. I live in a singlewide, buying a doublewide on top of a mountain. Got a good job driving truck, a woman who loves me, kids, dogs and cats oh and my z car... God is good too me in the simple things and I am thankful for them. An attitude or gratitude makes life's pains hurt less and the little blessings feel bigger.

  12. #312
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Where I'm originally from isn't too different from that area. Different trees, climate, wildlife, and accents, but the people are more or less the same.

    I trail ride too. There's a 90s Honda FourTrax that I keep maintained back there. I hardly ever use it, but I either perform or pay for all the maintenance, keep new tires on it, keep it in good working condition, etc., so it's there for my use when I want to use it. Sometimes I go out and gather chaga mushrooms growing on spruce trees, gather berries, collect pine cones for camp/bonfire starting material, or just enjoy the wilderness in general. I've been meaning to get into canoeing to gather wild rice at least once a year, but haven't gotten around to it though.

    There's a 15-footer boat too, with a rebuilt engine, that I've been meaning to complete refurbish with new seats, carpet, etc., but I haven't had the time to do it yet. I used to take it out to a little island on a big lake, the island being perhaps 150 feet long and 75 feet wide, which rises 20 feet up from the water, and has just enough flat space for 3 tents, a few fold-up chairs, and a campfire.

    I don't own a car, but I'm thinking of buying an 80s Pontiac 6000, like the one I had 15 years ago, with an Iron Duke 4-cylinder engine, or if I really want to splurge, get an AMC Eagle with the wood panel design exterior. I'd keep it in a rented garage-sized storage unit back there, with a hitch fitted to it to take the fifteen footer out with. I've still got it memorized how to work on the Iron Duke engine, and as long as you change the fluids and keep them topped up, the engine lasts forever. I always scrounged junkyards for spare parts when I owned cars, and that's how I'd keep it maintained once I re-buy a 6000/buy an Eagle.

    It costs less than $30 and takes 4 hours to get there on a bus, and there's taxis in town which can take me to the storage unit.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 10 May 18, at 23:54.
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  13. #313
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    OKCupid apparently removed their data post (according to my Twitter feed, anyways). Not surprising, because the unfortunate implications made quite a stir in the incel community (among others).

    On the dating website, women rated 80% of men as below average attractiveness. An absolute majority were rated 1 or below (on a 5 point scale). So, if you are a guy that's a 3, your typical OkCupid woman looks at you and sees Danny Devito mixed with Hitler.

    The data shows that women set their expectations only "slightly ahead of the curve," so they sent 50% of their messages to above-average men (to them), meaning the top 20% of men (in reality).

    This pretty much jives with what I saw a younger guy. If you're an average-attractiveness guy or below-average attractiveness guy, you gotta deal with a lot of rejection. A LOT of rejection. Just get over it and lower your standards, of course, but that's still the reality.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  14. #314
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    This pretty much jives with what I saw a younger guy. If you're an average-attractiveness guy or below-average attractiveness guy, you gotta deal with a lot of rejection. A LOT of rejection. Just get over it and lower your standards, of course, but that's still the reality.
    I think this is a symptom of online dating/dating apps in general. Most of the content on dating apps is visual display.

    In person, the old-fashioned way, the man makes up for average-to-below-average attractiveness with personality, putting things such as intelligence, wittiness, expressing interests, telling jokes, and other personality traits on display. If the man is successful, at that point she puts on her rose-tinted glasses and the man get cuter, more handsome, better looking, etc.

    A man's personality might turn off 95-99% of women (diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks), but there's that 1-5% to whom a man's personality is perfectly acceptable, even desirable, and may make up for a man's looks.

    When a woman is simply looking at pictures and swiping left and right, a man's personality never stands a chance of being a factor getting taken into consideration.

    I do believe that men's brains are lopsidedly geared toward visual intelligence, while women's brains are geared more toward words, language, and communication.

    Swiping right/left on a picture is thus, in my view, is more suitable for/suited toward men, but not for/toward women. When women do it, I believe they are forcing a square peg through a round hole as, in general, their brains aren't naturally geared for that sort of thing.

    While I believe there are exceptions to this rule among both sexes, I also believe among the overwhelming number of men/women, it can be said to generally be the case.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 11 May 18, at 23:42.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    This pretty much jives with what I saw a younger guy. If you're an average-attractiveness guy or below-average attractiveness guy, you gotta deal with a lot of rejection. A LOT of rejection. Just get over it and lower your standards, of course, but that's still the reality.
    The retirement homes I've seen, that is now reversed. Ususally with one living man to every five women. Never mind a good looking man, he's the only one around. Live long enough and the women jump at you. Better still, the homes condomns are passed around like crazy, mainly used for cheap male incontinence.

    The downside, of course, is that you have to live live long enough and get the doc to get you enough viagara.

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