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Thread: 2018 Toronto Van Murders

  1. #241
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    Otherwise, nobody is going to take the time to read what looks like a big wall of text. They're just going to read the first couple of sentences and skip to next person's post, that contained proper formatting.
    Yes they are. In fact, they do.

    Concision & paragraphs, especially paragraphs, should be a feature of most internet posts.


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  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Versus View Post
    That is all fine and dandy but not if you take out of equation the female nature.
    This is absurd. You are taking a figure of speech "female nature" to imply an obective existential reality. I can "Jesus sits at the right hand of God" and we understand the theological nature of the words but it does not mean that somewhere they are sitting there and if you take it as an existential claim you have not understood the context in which it is intended to be understood.

    Nor when propose a theory should you move from the general to the particular but vice versa. It that things constantly fall down when dropped that leads to the idea of gravity to explain it not vice versa. Woman like and dislike different things, foods, colours, some want children while others don't, they vote differently, practice different religions - or are atheists or agnostics; no two women are the same, not even identical twins. So when you examine the facts of all the differents in preferences and behaviour that women have (or do not have) it is impossible to formulate a universal law that might suggest there is a single "female nature". There is NOT. It is a figure of speech.

    So in the same way I might say "If unicorns and existed and could speak then x,yz might follow" is akin to saying "If a single female nature existed we might speculate that x,yz". Neither exist so all hypothesising that presupposes they do is waffle.

    Quote Originally Posted by citanon View Post
    Yes. Classical physics may be more intuitive, but it is deeply wrong in its description of the world. Quantum mechanics may be unintuitive, but as far as we can tell it is the most correct description of the world of any kind that mankind has ever devised.
    I would not say either are intuitive but nvm.

    Quote Originally Posted by citanon View Post
    No, actually before the measurement is preformed, the cat is absolutely in a superposition of live and dead.
    I am not sure I agree here. I do not think is in a "superposition" of "dead and alive". It is either/or - we just have not looked in the box yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by citanon View Post
    Just like around an atom, an electron is in a wavefunction and not at a point or moving in an orbit. The wavefunction around the atom IS the electron, we just find a point when we try to measure it's position.

    Neither of the above occurs because WE are uncertain about the outcome. Quantum mechanical objects inherently exist as wavefunctions.
    This I think is wrong. You can calculate where an electron is. You can also calculate its speed but you cannot calculate both at the same time due to the Uncertainty Principle. At the famous Copenhagen meeting between Bohr and Heisenburg they said more or less forget it, it works "just do the calculations." That is the orthodox view which does not make it right. The other view takes into the "many worlds" theories.

    Quote Originally Posted by citanon View Post
    The reason the above seems weird is that modern physics has no plausible description of just what a measurement is. Therefore, it also has no real good description of what time itself really is.
    Not sure there is problem with measuring on the macrocosmic level but certainly there are questions on the quantum level. Perhaps we just do not know enough yet but the Uncertainty Principle implies we can never know. It is possible that quantum computing may provide answers.

    I was merely using these short hand generalisations to illustrate the difference between science in the strict sense and so called "behavioral sciences" and I took some short cuts. Einstein does not say that "light bends" but that it appears to bend. What bends is space time. The earth actually move through space in a straight line as you might walk around the earth in straight line and end up back where started as space time is bent by the sun. Thus we can see galaxies which are actually behind black holes not because light bends but because the actual fabric of the universe does.

    Enough paragraphs?

  3. #243
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    Super-position is a real thing, though. It's empirically observed. Double-slit experiments show that a single unobserved photon goes through BOTH slits and interacts with itself. Once observed, the photon breaks down into a single position and only goes through a single slit.

    Extrapolating to something more intuitive: this is like you going into an airport. For some reason, 12 hours later, you are in both Paris and Moscow, and you are talking with yourself. Yet, this DOESN'T happen if we actually see you board the airplane, THEN you are in Paris OR Moscow.

    So the cat really is both dead and alive, just like you are really in both Moscow and Paris, just like the photon really does go through both slits.

    Standard relativity makes a lot more sense than this, and standard Newtonian mechanics makes a LOT more sense than this. Nonetheless, it is how the universe works, for some reason. For all we know it's a computer simulation and some 40 year old post-grad is playing a joke on us.

    Either way, our empirical observations are describing real things, we just don't understand the real things, even if we think we do. We thought we understood the universe real well with Newtonian mechanics right up until we tried to juice up electrons to go really fast, and it turned out that was impossible. They kept hitting some sort of weird speed limit, which turned out to the speed of light. But once we figured THAT out, then EVERYTHING changed.

    Also, does space-time curve? Or do gravitrons emit gravitational waves that propagate at the speed of light? Because those are two different things.

    Also Dark Matter and Dark Energy are really just residuals to equations to explain experimental observations, much like Planet Vulcan. We don't understand them at all, even though they make up the majority of the universe.
    Last edited by GVChamp; 02 May 18, at 15:46.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  4. #244
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    Interesting interpretation and example. Would I know which plane I got on? I mean I really do not want a plane a Moscow...

    Perhaps we should continue this interesting physics debate in the science section - it seems unrelated to the initial distinction I (and I think Ironduke) were trying to make here.
    Last edited by snapper; 02 May 18, at 15:46.

  5. #245
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    yeah, a bit unrelated. I take a bit of umbrage to the idea that social sciences aren't real sciences. They are a lot shoddier than most hard sciences because it's difficult and unethical to experiment on humans, but they are trying to observe and explain real social phenomenon. Also a lot of sciences are somewhat "hard" but still utterly suck because they have bad statistics practices: medicine and especially nutritional science run into this problem all the time.

    EDIT: Also everyone is okay with the social sciences when it "proves" something that jives with their preconceptions. Wage Gap between men and women!
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  6. #246
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    I am not saying that the terminology used by so called 'social sciences' or 'behavioral sciences' is "meaningless" in the logical empiricist sense of say A J Ayer. The words and categorisations they use have meaning - we understand what they mean. I understand the figure of speech "female nature" and "unicorn" just as I understand "psyche", "ego" or "psycopath". Nor am I saying they hold no value though I would argue it is largely a descriptive value in the way I might say "Gandalph was wise". That does not mean Gandalph or wisdom exist.

    As for wage disparity between the sexes it has never been an issue for me as I have spent most my working life as a Civil Servant. I believe it is more prevalent in the private sector and while I disagree with it on principle (and because it's against the law in most countries) I recognise that the realities. I am on maternity leave now myself; a guy is never going to be. Swings and roundabouts; but we are all free to make our choices.

  7. #247
    Senior Contributor Red Team's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Versus View Post
    Ok, since you know more about psychology and social science, what would be the consequences for the child's mental development if he or she is raised without a father? What personality traits does he or she develops?
    The short, unsatisfying answer is it depends. The questions you have to ask yourself in a situation like this are: Does the mother have a decent job and good social supports to help raise the child? Does the child have an easy temperament, or is he/she a handful? Is the mother substantially involved in the child's life?

    Yes, it is true that single parent child rearing is more of an uphill battle than the traditional family, after all the burden is on one parent to do the job of two---provide for and raise their child. But the influencing factors on child personality development isn't merely single vs. traditional parentage alone, it's a function of parent raising style, childhood experience, and social exposure---with a touch of genetics.

    There are plenty of perfectly functional, well-adjusted adults who were raised by single parents (our last president was one), and plenty of malcontents who squandered a life of affluence only to struggle in adulthood.
    "Draft beer, not people."

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Team View Post
    The short, unsatisfying answer is it depends. The questions you have to ask yourself in a situation like this are: Does the mother have a decent job and good social supports to help raise the child? Does the child have an easy temperament, or is he/she a handful? Is the mother substantially involved in the child's life?

    Yes, it is true that single parent child rearing is more of an uphill battle than the traditional family, after all the burden is on one parent to do the job of two---provide for and raise their child. But the influencing factors on child personality development isn't merely single vs. traditional parentage alone, it's a function of parent raising style, childhood experience, and social exposure---with a touch of genetics.

    There are plenty of perfectly functional, well-adjusted adults who were raised by single parents (our last president was one), and plenty of malcontents who squandered a life of affluence only to struggle in adulthood.
    My humor is also "tongue in cheek" if "long of tooth".

  9. #249
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Versus View Post
    Ok, since you know more about psychology and social science, what would be the consequences for the child's mental development if he or she is raised without a father? What personality traits does he or she develops?
    Forced to become emotinally mature before their time by like five years. So the mother takes on the job of two and the child needs to compensate as well.

    Higher appetite for risk if i compare behaviour of friends that went through it to those that did not

    If the divorce is messy then there is added stress

    The loss of a role model is significant so have to look for other role models

    Support networks matter a lot, family, friends etc

    At what age they lose the father also plays a role.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 02 May 18, at 23:03.

  10. #250
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Team View Post
    The short, unsatisfying answer is it depends. The questions you have to ask yourself in a situation like this are: Does the mother have a decent job and good social supports to help raise the child? Does the child have an easy temperament, or is he/she a handful? Is the mother substantially involved in the child's life?

    Yes, it is true that single parent child rearing is more of an uphill battle than the traditional family, after all the burden is on one parent to do the job of two---provide for and raise their child. But the influencing factors on child personality development isn't merely single vs. traditional parentage alone, it's a function of parent raising style, childhood experience, and social exposure---with a touch of genetics.

    There are plenty of perfectly functional, well-adjusted adults who were raised by single parents (our last president was one), and plenty of malcontents who squandered a life of affluence only to struggle in adulthood.
    Does that child ever breaks bond with the mother? How does it forms attachment to the primary caregiver object?

  11. #251
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    Except that money is really an aphrodisiac and guys like to fall in love with beautiful girls. "Girls don't like boys, girls like cars and money" doesn't mean that all women are the bimbo trying to bilk Hugh Heffner, it means that women's sexual and emotional responses don't even consciously activate except in the presence of a certain degree of wealth.

    It also doesn't mean guys will only bang super-models, but it also means guys will only seriously commit to girls above a certain attractiveness level.
    However, this applies to ALL people, because ALL people make shitty decisions and are susceptible to sin, and there are few, few, few people that are not superficial and materialistic. I seriously do not understand how any American cannot understand this, because we are buried in a consumerist, beauty-obsessed society literally every single day. Being a bit superficial and materialistic does not mean you cannot also be a good person.
    I see it as a Venn Diagram of sorts.

    I believe most women are looking for a combination of stability (this means a stable income, the higher the better, and a stable future, the better the prospects, the better) in a man, combined with personality. Most women will pick a man they can find, who is within her means to attain, with the optimal combination of both of these traits.

    I believe most men are looking for a combination of attractiveness, combined with personality. Most men will pick a woman they can find, who is within his means to attain, with the optimal combination of both of these traits.

    When women pick high income and ignore personality, and men pick attractiveness but ignore personality, that's where many of the problems start.

    The personality traits desired by each sex are, of course, variable, depending on the individual preferences of each man or woman. These traits may also change over the course of an individual's lifetime, which is where we see divorces, affairs, and "serial monogamy" in general.

    I think male-female relationships do have more complexity that what I've just stated, but this is my basic "101" takeaway, based upon what I've observed.

    As an aside, it's a shame that we live in such an entitlement society.

    A society where some men feel so entitled to sex that they run women over with vans when they don't get sex, or douse them in acid, so the woman can never have a normal life with another man.

    A society where some women feel so entitled that they will take a man for everything he's worth, deny him a relationship with his children and turn them against him, and leave him to die as he drinks himself to death, dies prematurely from a heart attack or a stroke, or commits suicide.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 03 May 18, at 04:58.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  12. #252
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
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  13. #253
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
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    Incel and the witch hunt that will ensue,if not already in full swing, can seriously damage MGTOW movement. The main problem is that in the phase called "Red pill" rage, Incel's ranting and "Red pill rage" are almost identical. The main difference is that ince's stay stuck in the "rage phase" and MGTOW's move on to self actualization. After taking the "red pill", a person goes trough phases that are similar to the phases that characterize trauma, the five stages of grief, denial, rage, bargaining , depression and acceptance. In the mgtow philosophy case, realization and acceptance of reality, causes short phase of denial, after which rage sets in. Than there is a phase called the "Mist" that can be translated to bargaining aka rationalization, where person tries to balance the newly realized truth and the role that that person had in the society. Since it doesn't work, because gynocentric society programming is so damaging, the identity it creates must be abandoned and that is equal to virtual death. Than the depression sets in and the person comes into the "Valley of suicide" where most men actually take their lives, because they are unable cope with the stress that comes out of the fact that old identity and defenses are rejected and effectively non existent, there is a sense of extreme vulnerability and weakness. In essence, trough the "Valley of suicide" the man dies and gets reborn again and the rebirth leads to self actualization, where new meaning and purpose of life is established and man continues his life as a true new person.
    Red pill is painful, it is risky but at the end, it saves lives.

  14. #254
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Versus,

    Paragraphs. You got to hit that enter key twice and put separate points and ideas on separate lines.

    Otherwise it's tldr; too long, didn't read.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  15. #255
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    @ Versus

    I played the black pill posts and my only conclusion is that I must have the superior genes(!).

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