Page 13 of 24 FirstFirst ... 45678910111213141516171819202122 ... LastLast
Results 181 to 195 of 354

Thread: 2018 Toronto Van Murders

  1. #181
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
    Join Date
    26 Aug 06
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    1,477
    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    I keep my possessions as minimal as possible - I prize mobility, flexibility, and the ability to rapidly "re-deploy" to anywhere I need to be, or want to go, on a few days notice. Even if I'm currently sitting around doing a whole bunch of nothing - I want to be able to pick up and leave at any given moment, whether it's due to boredom or I'm just sick of things.

    I live in weekly rentals, use storage units, and my address is a PO Box. Material possessions are deadweight. So is a girlfriend. The older woman/massage therapist strategy perfectly suits my lifestyle.

    I don't want a marriageable woman, nor can I attract one with my lifestyle, which is a win-win.


    Re-quoting this to make a point about something.

    You've talked about cars, money, and wealth and responses to them, but you forgot about power.

    Some forgo wealth in favor of power. Certain careers with five-digit or low six-digit salaries, can earn one higher status, and give individuals the ability to wield more power than even the wealthiest of people.

    It's of course dependent on the worldview and beliefs on an individual, but everything you've said about wealth can equally apply to, and is interchangeable, with power.

    Power can be exercised in combination with wealth, and it can also be exercised without wealth. There are many people in this world who have virtually no wealth, but are still very powerful persons.
    No problem with any of that, as long as you know what you're about.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  2. #182
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
    Join Date
    03 Jul 06
    Location
    Belgrade
    Posts
    2,794
    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    I think you think too much, and you're buying too heavily, and spinning pseudo-scientific theories. Psychology and sociology are pseudo-sciences to begin with. In my opinion, what you've been posting is pseudo-pseudo-pseudo-science.

    If you're living the lifestyle you prefer, be contented with what you have. If Serbian women are "psychotic" in your view and wholly unsuitable for marriage, find alternative and ethical means for female companionship, and stop worrying about it. My two cents. If the "V", as you put it, has no power of you, why are you even thinking about it? If that statement were true, you wouldn't be dwelling on it or discussing it.

    No offense, but you're obviously too old to be a paramour to older women. Go on vacation somewhere and find a way to relax. My advice.
    Heh, Serbia is a Chad o land, it has been like this forever, so what incel see as injustice is actually normal behavior for us. That is why the average IQ in Serbia is 89, due to their natural urges to procreate with the most dominant and violent man that is physically most fit. Unfortunately that comes with the price in the IQ points, but they don't care about that.
    Last edited by Versus; 01 May 18, at 16:38.

  3. #183
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Sep 10
    Location
    Bangalore
    Posts
    7,230
    Quote Originally Posted by Versus View Post
    I am trying to recreate the logic that turns incel into a mass murderer or any other type of felon.
    From analyzing videos and posts made by incels, the clear pattern emerge in their behavior and it is divided into layers. The first layer is the victim mentality. It is based upon realization that they are rejected by the society because of their physical or mental deficiencies. The logic is, that they couldn't chose their parents and therefore their DNA structure out of which their physical and mental deficiencies come from. In the first case, the case of Eliot Rogers, that is clearly seen. He blames his heritage, being born out of mix marriage between Asian and European parents. So the first victims are Asians. Than, he blames women for rejecting him for being a mixed race, so his second victims were females. On top of his hatred towards himself, there is a false self "the supreme gentlemen" that is a narcissistic construct in his mind that judges him constantly and forces him to do actions like these. The "inner sadistic judge" sits at the head of the tribunal of every narcissist and he brings verdicts and punishment to the true self for not living up to idealistic goals set by the false self. Since shame and blame are the two primary forces in the cluster B disorder, these "inner sadistic judges" are also present in all disorders in that spectrum.

    In front of every incel, there is vision of the future, that is so grim and dark, it is a void filled up with eternal sorrow and pain. It breeds fear, out of which depression or anger come out. They feel sentenced for life, to a life without intimacy and sex. Their guilt and crime is being born with traits that they couldn't chose and therefore they see themselves as sentenced for the crime that they didn't commit. First, the pathological envy sets in, that creates resentment and resentment creates hate. So they rebel. If they are already doing the time, they might just as well do the crime, that is the correlation and logic that sets in in their minds. Therefore, the sense of hopelessness breeds power which enables them do commit the crime.

    What is characteristic for groups like these is that technology plays an important role in their life, especially video games and social media. In the world of video games, they are all omnipotent super heroes that slay beasts and dragons, they are successful and than they go on social media, all hyped up to seek validation from females and get rejected. However, the transition is seamless, because interactions are done in the virtual world. So jumping from a video game avatars to app/social app avatars is "the same". However, when rejection comes, it shatters the entire narrative of their "success" and trauma accrues. Multiple traumas lead to the formation of resentments that in the long run, lead to this explosive mixture that can result in crimes.
    Looked up Elliot rogers and he was even younger at 22

    Is there a cut off age here with these incels, are they all in their twenties mostly ?

  4. #184
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
    Join Date
    03 Jul 06
    Location
    Belgrade
    Posts
    2,794
    No, not really. They break down usually at that age because they think that going to college will ensure the flow of V like it is portrayed in the movies. Many of them move out of their parents houses and if they thought that the reason why they cannot get laid is due to them, painful realization sets in once they found out that its not the case. Also the society considers them adults legally in the most of the states at that age.

  5. #185
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Sep 10
    Location
    Bangalore
    Posts
    7,230
    Quote Originally Posted by Versus View Post
    One thing is certain, the security and law enforcement agencies now will be in great trouble, because profiling the would be suspects will be near impossible. I mean, everyone without a girlfriend is now suspect or person of interest, for them.
    Males in their early to late twenties. Which also happens to be the ideal age for most crime commited by males

    Quote Originally Posted by Versus View Post
    No, not really. They break down usually at that age because they think that going to college will ensure the flow of V like it is portrayed in the movies. Many of them move out of their parents houses and if they thought that the reason why they cannot get laid is due to them, painful realization sets in once they found out that its not the case.

  6. #186
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
    Join Date
    02 Aug 03
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    11,653
    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Looked up Elliot rogers and he was even younger at 22

    Is there a cut off age here with these incels, are they all in their twenties mostly ?
    I don't even know what this incel stuff is, as far as I'm concerned it's a pseudo-scientific theory crafted out of a pseudo-science.

    The following are my opinions and beliefs, and mine alone.

    In my view, psychology and sociology are bullshit, and these incel/pareto theories are exponentially more bullshit.

    All the social sciences are are an attempt to give definition and make sense out of complex, abstract phenomenon that in reality cannot be easily defined. The mainstream social sciences just happen to be a load of bullshit that a large enough number of people have temporarily agreed, in whatever decade or century, to be the truth.

    Physics and mathematics are real sciences. The social sciences are just a set of beliefs that some people contemporaneously agree upon.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 01 May 18, at 17:06.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  7. #187
    Senior Contributor Red Team's Avatar
    Join Date
    04 Oct 11
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    768
    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Looked up Elliot rogers and he was even younger at 22

    Is there a cut off age here with these incels, are they all in their twenties mostly ?
    The mindset for "incels" is not age-exclusive. Like what was said earlier, the common threads to these people are a heavy sense of entitlement combined with seeing women as objects rather than human beings. This mindset has been around for as long as people have been around, and young men with poor social connections and a lack of direction are most vulnerable to it. The entitlement is an emotional defense mechanism to instances where they are rejected, i.e., "How dare these women reject me/I deserve sex from you because I bought you a drink." Plainly put, without having people around to check you on your BS, those feelings of resentment fester and--in very extreme cases--can lead to externalized aggression.

    That said, the risk for externalizing these frustrations entirely depend on the presence of other disorders/syndromes. For example, if the guy in question has thoughts of entitlement towards getting sexual partners, but has depression, he is much less likely to externalize those emotions into concrete behaviors than someone with impulse control issues (i.e., ADHD). However, someone like an Elliot Rogers represents an extreme case of "incel," likely meeting some criteria for Antisocial Personality disorder.
    "Draft beer, not people."

  8. #188
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
    Join Date
    02 Aug 03
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    11,653
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Team View Post
    The mindset for "incels" is not age-exclusive. Like what was said earlier, the common threads to these people are a heavy sense of entitlement combined with seeing women as objects rather than human beings. This mindset has been around for as long as people have been around, and young men with poor social connections and a lack of direction are most vulnerable to it. The entitlement is an emotional defense mechanism to instances where they are rejected, i.e., "How dare these women reject me/I deserve sex from you because I bought you a drink." Plainly put, without having people around to check you on your BS, those feelings of resentment fester and--in very extreme cases--can lead to externalized aggression.

    That said, the risk for externalizing these frustrations entirely depend on the presence of other disorders/syndromes. For example, if the guy in question has thoughts of entitlement towards getting sexual partners, but has depression, he is much less likely to externalize those emotions into concrete behaviors than someone with impulse control issues (i.e., ADHD). However, someone like an Elliot Rogers represents an extreme case of "incel," likely meeting some criteria for Antisocial Personality disorder.
    In my opinion, besides children, who have needs that must be provided for, nobody is entitled to anything, except not to have certain rights violated.

    When people feel entitled - "you have something, I want it, if you don't give it to me, I'm going to take it" - this is the source of most of the world's problems.

    Nobody is entitled to love, a partner, wealth, happiness, or sex. If one wants these things, earn them. If somebody approaches you with a sense of entitlement, turn your shoulder and find someone who is free of entitlement.

    Since you brought up ADHD - I'll repeat my views on it. It is not a mental illness if you're, say, a car salesman. It is a mental asset. Every form of "mental illness" can flip to becoming a mental asset in the right conditions. I believe, but cannot prove, that most prophets and religious figures who claimed to have visions of gods, their will, and prophecies, were simply highly intelligent schizophrenics, noble liars, under the influence of hallucinogens, or any combination of the three.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 01 May 18, at 17:25.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  9. #189
    Senior Contributor Red Team's Avatar
    Join Date
    04 Oct 11
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    768
    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    I don't even know what this incel stuff is, as far as I'm concerned it's a pseudo-scientific theory crafted out of a pseudo-science.

    The following are my opinions and beliefs, and mine alone.

    In my view, psychology and sociology are bullshit, and these incel/pareto theories are exponentially more bullshit.

    All the social sciences are are an attempt to give definition and make sense out of complex, abstract phenomenon that in reality cannot be easily defined. The mainstream social sciences just happen to be a load of bullshit that a large enough number of people have temporarily agreed, in whatever decade or century, to be the truth.

    Physics and mathematics are real sciences. The social sciences are just a set of beliefs that some people contemporaneously agree upon.
    As a student of both sciences, I agree to an extent. There's certainly branches of psychology out there that continue to subscribe to questionable theory foundations and assessment methods. But it's not as clear cut as saying the whole science is bunk. Cognitive Psychology and Neuroscience synthesize principles of medicine and chemistry with psychological theory very well with good rates of findings replication. Psychometrics and Behavioral psychology (my branch of study) use standardized measures and procedures to observe and interpret data that is concrete and observable (i.e., behaviors, academic/job performance), with a heavy reliance on statistical analysis to support theoretical framework--not unlike physics. It's all a far-cry from crackpot Freudian theory.

    Today's Sociology is mainly focused on studying the function of bureaucracy and institutions on society, and is also very reliant on statistical methodology to support findings. Also a far-cry from past figures who were decidedly less empirical in their theory building.
    "Draft beer, not people."

  10. #190
    Senior Contributor Red Team's Avatar
    Join Date
    04 Oct 11
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    768
    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    In my opinion, besides children, who have needs that must be provided for, nobody is entitled to anything, except not to have certain rights violated.

    When people feel entitled - "you have something, I want it, if you don't give it to me, I'm going to take it" - this is the source of most of the world's problems.

    Nobody is entitled to love, a partner, wealth, happiness, or sex. If one wants these things, earn them. If somebody approaches you with a sense of entitlement, turn your shoulder and find someone who is free of entitlement.
    Absolutely, I agree. It's funny, I just had a discussion about this in my last class regarding the effect of artificially inflated self-esteem in children with helicopter parents and overly nurturing classroom environments. Studies over the past year have shown that inflated self-esteem actually negatively impacts academic performance over time. Kids need to experience rejection and failure early on in their lives so they can learn how to overcome it. This is why we're starting to see lesson plans reinforce effort rather than "smartness." The hardest and most critical thing to bring out of children isn't smartness, it's work ethic and resilience.
    "Draft beer, not people."

  11. #191
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
    Join Date
    03 Jul 06
    Location
    Belgrade
    Posts
    2,794
    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    I don't even know what this incel stuff is, as far as I'm concerned it's a pseudo-scientific theory crafted out of a pseudo-science.

    The following are my opinions and beliefs, and mine alone.

    In my view, psychology and sociology are bullshit, and these incel/pareto theories are exponentially more bullshit.

    All the social sciences are are an attempt to give definition and make sense out of complex, abstract phenomenon that in reality cannot be easily defined. The mainstream social sciences just happen to be a load of bullshit that a large enough number of people have temporarily agreed, in whatever decade or century, to be the truth.

    Physics and mathematics are real sciences. The social sciences are just a set of beliefs that some people contemporaneously agree upon.
    Problem is that you have individual cases, with individual pathology, joining in into these online communities and there their views get self reinforced and than they become collective psychosis. A cult, that needs to have its leaders, martyrs/heroes and followers. That can be a dangerous phase.
    Last edited by Versus; 01 May 18, at 18:35.

  12. #192
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
    Join Date
    02 Aug 03
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    11,653
    Quote Originally Posted by Versus View Post
    Problem is that you have individual cases, with individual pathology, joining in into these online communities and there their views get self reinforced and than they become collective psychosis. A cult, that needs to have its leaders, martyrs/heroes and followers. That can be a dangerous phase.
    Most human belief systems, which includes practically everything that we do, say, and think, that isn't objectively hard science, can be classified as a construct. I hesitate to use the word 'cult' as a term for it, due to the pejorative connotations.

    Some human constructs are mainstream, relatively safe, or benign. Some are not. Some that are, are not, when exercised in the wrong hands, or when individuals get carried away, and act upon otherwise benign beliefs in a malign manner.

    These are my opinions and beliefs, and as always, one can take it or leave it.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  13. #193
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Sep 10
    Location
    Bangalore
    Posts
    7,230
    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    I don't even know what this incel stuff is, as far as I'm concerned it's a pseudo-scientific theory crafted out of a pseudo-science.

    The following are my opinions and beliefs, and mine alone.

    In my view, psychology and sociology are bullshit, and these incel/pareto theories are exponentially more bullshit.

    All the social sciences are are an attempt to give definition and make sense out of complex, abstract phenomenon that in reality cannot be easily defined. The mainstream social sciences just happen to be a load of bullshit that a large enough number of people have temporarily agreed, in whatever decade or century, to be the truth.

    Physics and mathematics are real sciences. The social sciences are just a set of beliefs that some people contemporaneously agree upon.
    Yes but don't you find they add something here to understanding what is happening

    What else would you use instead ?

    So many of these cases can be lumped into one category, crazy guy went and killed some people

    Why'd he do it ? cos he was crazy

    The end

    Is that it

  14. #194
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    12 Aug 08
    Location
    UK/Europe
    Posts
    4,672
    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    Physics and mathematics are real sciences. The social sciences are just a set of beliefs that some people contemporaneously agree upon.
    Strictly speaking maths is not a science. You cannot prove that 2+2=4 empirically. Applied maths is science but pure maths not.

  15. #195
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    12 Aug 08
    Location
    UK/Europe
    Posts
    4,672
    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Yes but don't you find they add something here to understanding what is happening

    What else would you use instead ?

    So many of these cases can be lumped into one category, crazy guy went and killed some people

    Why'd he do it ? cos he was crazy

    The end

    Is that it
    I don't think 'social science' are without insight. It's a bit reading a book - you learn about Gandalf when you read LoTR and might be able to guess how he might react in some situations. It is not provable in the way that having a broken leg is.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 12 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 12 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. 2018 American Political Scene
    By astralis in forum American Politics & Economy
    Replies: 979
    Last Post: Today, 16:14
  2. ANZAC Day 2018
    By Albany Rifles in forum World Affairs Board Pub
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 25 Apr 18,, 15:20
  3. Iranian uprising 2017-2018
    By 1980s in forum The Iranian Question
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 23 Jan 18,, 02:34
  4. Miami Vice reboot -2018
    By surfgun in forum Movie & TV Room
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04 Aug 17,, 01:23

Share this thread with friends:

Share this thread with friends:

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •