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Thread: US Steel & Aluminum Tariffs

  1. #61
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    The vast majority of US imports from China are made by foreign-invested companies that were either founded in China or moved there from Hong Kong, Taiwan, Korea or Japan. We're talking something on the order of 60-70%.
    All good, those companies will face a temporary haircut. What will China's reaction be is the question.

    Everybody is getting similar treatment. He objected to 100% import duty levied on Harley Davidson motorcycles in India. GOI's response was to reduce that import duty to 75% and further to 50%.

    Result ? Harley become 25% cheaper to buy in India : D

    Is China going to 'retaliate' in a similar fashion ? ie become more reasonable. I think they will. Too early to rock the boat.

    Am waiting for the Brits to start a similar agitation when it comes to their whiskies. Import duties on those are 400%. Completely fcuked up!!

    His message to the common man is quite clear. The US has been open to the world and allowed many to get rich but in exchange they aren't offering an equitable deal to the US.

    He intends to change that.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 22 Mar 18, at 11:45.

  2. #62
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    Dow down over 700 points at close and S&P down about 2.5%.

    Stocks oversold. Actually policy shows trade war fears largely overblown.

    Real worry now is Fed tightening.

  3. #63
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    Are we all just ignoring the fact that a free trade agreement between the US and China has the scales tipped significantly in China's favour?

    Wage, labour, workplace safety and environmental laws add huge costs to manufacturing. Imposing a costly regulatory regime on your own businesses is one thing. But then opening the door to foreign competitors who have a much lower level of regulation is simply screwing over those that follow your rules.

    China is a perfect example of a country that does not impose the level of regulation that the US does. Steel is a perfect example of a product whose costs are significantly effected by regulation. Trump is absolutely right in trying to even the playing field. If China wants to trade with the US it should follow the same rules. Why should he maintain an agreement that puts US producers at a disadvantage? This seems like Trump bashing gone mad. You could make the case that opening trade to developing countries gives them a 'leg up'. China doesn't need a leg up. Remember that Xi Jinping just made himself life long leader - history tells us that that never turns out well. There's plenty of issues to bash Trump on but this isn't one of them.

  4. #64
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    I agree. Something had to be done.

  5. #65
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    i don't mind the tariffs aimed at China; there were years of negotiations and polite fictions that China was opening up, blah blah.

    it was all the Trump talk about how our allies were actually the ones screwing us over the most, the talk that South Korea had better accept the tariffs or we would pull out-- that's the crap that pisses me off.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  6. #66
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    i don't mind the tariffs aimed at China; there were years of negotiations and polite fictions that China was opening up, blah blah.

    it was all the Trump talk about how our allies were actually the ones screwing us over the most, the talk that South Korea had better accept the tariffs or we would pull out-- that's the crap that pisses me off.
    When did he say allies were the most ? wasn't China always top of the list there

  7. #67
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    http://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/08/...m-tariffs-232/

    Trump on Thursday said discussions with U.S. allies on tariffs could hinge on the allies’ level of defense spending.

    “Many of the countries that treat us the worst on trade and on military are our allies, as they like to call them,” he said.
    regarding the relevant tariffs on steel, for instance: the largest US sourcing for steel comes from Canada, Brazil, SK, Russia, Mexico, Japan, and Germany.

    in any case Trump ended up exempting a lot of US allies anyways. so, what did he antagonize US allies for?
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  8. #68
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Defense spending according to your source. This isn't new, remember reading an article a while back that previous administrations have had the same sentiment if not as vocal about it

  9. #69
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Boat View Post
    Are we all just ignoring the fact that a free trade agreement between the US and China has the scales tipped significantly in China's favour?

    Wage, labour, workplace safety and environmental laws add huge costs to manufacturing. Imposing a costly regulatory regime on your own businesses is one thing. But then opening the door to foreign competitors who have a much lower level of regulation is simply screwing over those that follow your rules.

    China is a perfect example of a country that does not impose the level of regulation that the US does. Steel is a perfect example of a product whose costs are significantly effected by regulation. Trump is absolutely right in trying to even the playing field. If China wants to trade with the US it should follow the same rules. Why should he maintain an agreement that puts US producers at a disadvantage? This seems like Trump bashing gone mad. You could make the case that opening trade to developing countries gives them a 'leg up'. China doesn't need a leg up. Remember that Xi Jinping just made himself life long leader - history tells us that that never turns out well. There's plenty of issues to bash Trump on but this isn't one of them.
    Yep, gonna ignore it.
    First, it doesn't exist today.
    Second, it never existed.
    Third, no one has ever proposed it.
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

  10. #70
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    i don't mind the tariffs aimed at China; there were years of negotiations and polite fictions that China was opening up, blah blah.

    it was all the Trump talk about how our allies were actually the ones screwing us over the most, the talk that South Korea had better accept the tariffs or we would pull out-- that's the crap that pisses me off.
    How do you "aim" tariffs at a country from which more than half of the exports are by foreign-invested firms? Remember, SOEs don't export all that much (except commodities and commodity-like products) because they aren't all that competitive.
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    http://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/08/...m-tariffs-232/



    regarding the relevant tariffs on steel, for instance: the largest US sourcing for steel comes from Canada, Brazil, SK, Russia, Mexico, Japan, and Germany.

    in any case Trump ended up exempting a lot of US allies anyways. so, what did he antagonize US allies for?
    Apparently, he's exempted everyone of note but the Japanese...

    I expect that the China tariff will probably go the way of the steel and aluminum tariff (exemptions turn it into another cheap publicity stunt).

  12. #72
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    How do you "aim" tariffs at a country from which more than half of the exports are by foreign-invested firms? Remember, SOEs don't export all that much (except commodities and commodity-like products) because they aren't all that competitive.
    more of a political message than an economic one-- that China is more vulnerable to outside economic shock than the US, and more dependent on that foreign investment going into China. i understand that essentially this will be like stabbing through yourself to get at an opponent, but there it is.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    more of a political message than an economic one-- that China is more vulnerable to outside economic shock than the US, and more dependent on that foreign investment going into China. i understand that essentially this will be like stabbing through yourself to get at an opponent, but there it is.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV4YXmpcP3E

    But didn't they use national security as the excuse to put up this tariff? Don't these exemptions make a mockery of that "national security"?

  14. #74
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    this administration in general makes a mockery of national security, so go figure.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    this administration in general makes a mockery of national security, so go figure.
    But did you watch the video i linked?

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