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Thread: US Steel & Aluminum Tariffs

  1. #316
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-e...-idUSKBN1JN3AP

    Canada strikes back at U.S. over tariffs, unveils aid package

    OTTAWA (Reuters) - Canada struck back at U.S. steel and aluminum tariffs on Friday, vowing to impose punitive measures on C$16.6 billion ($12.63 billion) of American goods and unveiling a C$2 billion aid package for affected industries and workers.

    Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland told a news conference the tariffs would come into effect on July 1.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  2. #317
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    $16bil in new taxes while only $2bil is slated to help those affected. [sarcasm]Yeah, I did not see that coming.[/sarcasm]

  3. #318
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    You really believe that tariffs increase a country's tax yield?

  4. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    You really believe that tariffs increase a country's tax yield?
    Tarrif -Wikipedia
    A tariff is a tax on imports or exports between sovereign states.

  5. #320
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    That is not what I asked... Do you believe that tariffs increase a country's tax income?

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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    That is not what I asked... Do you believe that tariffs increase a country's tax income?
    In all fairness, it is a very tough question to answer. We need to take into account suppressed demand, lost jobs and higher prices (which yield higher taxes, albeit on a smaller base). There's no single right answer, but the general consensus is that tariffs are bad for your wealth.
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

  7. #322
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    That is not what I asked... Do you believe that tariffs increase a country's tax income?
    Maybe you had meant to ask if tariffs would increase/decrease a country's national income (GDP).

    In which case, a tariff, like other taxes, might decrease it as a result of deadweight loss.

    I'd defer to a real economist to provide a better explanation of this phenomenon. I only ever took introductory level economics courses at university.

    The US federal government used to be funded almost exclusively through tariffs in the 18th and 19th centuries though, until income taxes were invented.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

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    Maybe then Britain should have thanked Napoleon for his 'Continental System'? Why do Governments impose taxes on cigarettes and alcohol? To increase revenue or drive down demand and so save money in healthcare? If Canada were to impose tariffs on Scotch whisky such that one bottle cost CAN $1000 or more how much would the Canadians drink? As we are seeing the export costs of Harley Davidson are merely forcing them to move production elsewhere to avoid EU counter tariffs. Classically it has been normal for conservatives to argue for more free trade but now I hear Trumpkin saying the whole purpose of setting up the EU was to "take advantage of the US". Presumably he never heard about the wars of the last century. He asked Macron "why don't you leave the EU?" but no... this is nothing to do with pal in Moscow. Trumpkin is actively working on Putin's agenda of dismantling the EU and the transatlantic alliance and in the process actually harming his own constituency at home.

  9. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    That is not what I asked... Do you believe that tariffs increase a country's tax income?
    Ask the Trudeau Government. Their numbers. Not mine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Maybe then Britain should have thanked Napoleon for his 'Continental System'? Why do Governments impose taxes on cigarettes and alcohol? To increase revenue or drive down demand and so save money in healthcare?
    You're showing your ignorance to the hilt. It's revenue. When consumption went down, Ottawa raised the taxes because they were counting on the revenue.

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    If Canada were to impose tariffs on Scotch whisky such that one bottle cost CAN $1000 or more how much would the Canadians drink?
    A bottle of Lagavulin has a 125% markup here and they can't keep it on the shelf.

    Do the freaking research before spouting crap.

  11. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Ask the Trudeau Government. Their numbers. Not mine.
    So Canada is thanking Trumpkin? And returning the 'favour'?

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    You're showing your ignorance to the hilt. It's revenue. When consumption went down, Ottawa raised the taxes because they were counting on the revenue.
    But Trumpkin's tax cuts were good right? Hmm...

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    A bottle of Lagavulin has a 125% markup here and they can't keep it on the shelf.
    Would you still buy as much Scotch whisky if it cost CAD $5,000 for bottle of malt? The whole point of tariffs is to drive down domestic demand for an imported commodity; to make imported steel more expensive the US and hope someone will produce steel domestically. But it fails when others do the same on your exports. You end up making each other poorer. Trade is mutually beneficial because if say Turkey sells widgets to Ukraine and Ukraine sells wheat to Turkey both Governments get tax income and both exporting companies gain income with which they can expand - employ more people etc... Their employess are then better off so they can import other things from Turkey and vice versa. You do not wish to make your trade partners destitute or they cannot buy anything from you. Hardly rocket science or quantum calculations. Read Adam Smith and understand why Britain fought Napoleon.

  12. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    So Canada is thanking Trumpkin? And returning the 'favour'?
    The current Trump metal tarrifs will have a .04% effect on Canada's GDP according to the Liberal's own numbers. So, they did the math. In the scheme of things when a $bil crosses the road borders everyday, never mind the train and shipping trade, $16bil means diddly squat between the US and Canada. So, yeah, Trudeau is already spending that $16bil.

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    But Trumpkin's tax cuts were good right? Hmm...
    Ask the Americans. They seemed to be having a robust economy.

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Would you still buy as much Scotch whisky if it cost CAD $5,000 for bottle of malt? The whole point of tariffs is to drive down domestic demand for an imported commodity; to make imported steel more expensive the US and hope someone will produce steel domestically.
    1) Nobody outside of Scotland is legally allowed to produce scotch and no one outside of Lagavulin Distillery can produce Lagavulin 16 year old and it's not a matter of recipie but of location. Local waters gives each scotch their own distinct flavours, so you're really pulling stuff out of your ass if you think Canada or anyone else could even come close to replicating distinctive Scotch brands.

    2) The government wants revenue. Taxing scotch out of reach will produce exactly zero revenue.

    Don't bother trying to give me economic lessons you know nothing about.
    Last edited by WABs_OOE; 01 Jul 18, at 19:21.

  13. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    The current Trump metal tarrifs will have a .04% effect on Canada's GDP according to the Liberal's own numbers. So, they did the math. In the scheme of things when a $bil crosses the road borders everyday, never mind the train and shipping trade, $16bil means diddly squat between the US and Canada. So, yeah, Trudeau is already spending that $16bil.
    So you're saying Canada is benefitting? Evidently all economic theory prior to you was mistaken!

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Ask the Americans. They seemed to be having a robust economy.
    But increasing taxes increases tax yield "When consumption went down, Ottawa raised the taxes because they were counting on the revenue" so how can tax cuts work to increase revenue? Incidently they are not in the US and the deficit (which Trumpkin promised to get rid of) is increasing the debt. Interest payments on the debt will soon take the most money from the US budget. God forbid a stock market crash and raise in bond rates.



    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    1) Nobody outside of Scotland is legally allowed to produce scotch and no one outside of Lagavulin Distillery can produce Lagavulin 16 year old and it's not a matter of recipie but of location. Local waters gives each scotch their own distinct flavours, so you're really pulling stuff out of your ass if you think Canada or anyone else could even come close to replicating distinctive Scotch brands.
    I went to school for a while in Scotland and my oldest friend still lives there. I do not need a Canadian's education on the distilleries.

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    2) The government wants revenue. Taxing scotch out of reach will produce exactly zero revenue.
    So a pareto curve to optimise tax yield? But how do tariffs on imports fit in?

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Don't bother trying to give me economic lessons you know nothing about.
    More insults... no counter argument. Yawn...

  14. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    So you're saying Canada is benefitting? Evidently all economic theory prior to you was mistaken!
    Can you even freaking read? I've said the Liberals' own numbers say Trump's tarrifs will have a net effect of 0.4%, that's less than 1 percent on the Canadian economy. Yeah, it will hurt but it's a bee sting, not an open wound.

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    But increasing taxes increases tax yield "When consumption went down, Ottawa raised the taxes because they were counting on the revenue" so how can tax cuts work to increase revenue?
    Stay on freaking topic. You said was tax on alcohol and cigerrettes about revenue or promoting healthcare by avoiding health problems with smoking and drinking.

    I point blank point out you know crap since Ottawa cared more about the revenue than reducing consumption. People were consuming less. Ottawa raised the taxes because they were not getting the revenue. Pure simple facts. Stop trying to pretend you know more about the situation when you know crap all. They're sin taxes. The more you sin, the more you pay. People were sinning less, so Ottawa taxed those who are still sinning higher. Simple math deludes you.

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Incidently they are not in the US and the deficit (which Trumpkin promised to get rid of) is increasing the debt. Interest payments on the debt will soon take the most money from the US budget. God forbid a stock market crash and raise in bond rates.
    Funny. The US economy grew 2.2%. You must have a definition of not doing robost. I'll go with the economists.

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    I went to school for a while in Scotland and my oldest friend still lives there. I do not need a Canadian's education on the distilleries.
    Yeah you do since you're obviously not a scotch drinker and obviously underage while there. I doubt you have any collection close to mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    So a pareto curve to optimise tax yield? But how do tariffs on imports fit in?
    People will pay for what they want. The Liberals are raising 20cents on a bottle of ketchup. That's a hell of a lot different than raising car prices $6K-$10k. In case you go off tangent again, these are the real world price hikes we're talking about, not some imagined fairy tales out of your mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    More insults... no counter argument. Yawn...
    Only you find real world facts insulting.
    Last edited by WABs_OOE; 01 Jul 18, at 21:12.

  15. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Can you even freaking read? I've said the Liberals' own numbers say Trump's tarrifs will have a net effect of 0.4%, that's less than 1 percent on the Canadian economy. Yeah, it will hurt but it's a bee sting, not an open wound.
    I thought you were saying that the Canadian Government earned extra tax revenue from their counter tariffs so benefitted ergo tariffs are good?

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    They're sin taxes. The more you sin, the more you pay. People were sinning less, so Ottawa taxed those who are still sinning higher. Simple math deludes you.
    As a Catholic I do not regard the consumption of wine but thanks for another insult.

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Funny. The US economy grew 2.2%. You must have a definition of not doing robost. I'll go with the economists.
    I did not mention growth. How is the debt doing? I mean that is a conservative thing to worry about normally, so perhaps Trumpkin is not a real conservative? "Analysts predict the U.S. will dive further into debt over the next year. In a report published March 2, the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget said the national debt “is rising unsustainably.” It added that “recent tax and spending legislation have made a bad situation even worse."
    http://www.newsweek.com/us-national-...on-mark-855946

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Yeah you do since you're obviously not a scotch drinker and obviously underage while there. I doubt you have any collection close to mine.
    Actually I do not mind a highland malt in winter but you can compare collections with my Pater.

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    People will pay for what they want. The Liberals are raising 20cents on a bottle of ketchup. That's a hell of a lot different than raising car prices $6K-$10k. In case you go off tangent again, these are the real world price hikes we're talking about, not some imagined fairy tales out of your mind.
    People also pay for they can afford. US prices for goods needing steel rise as they cannot buy they cheapest steel on the market. Ironically in Europe it was a good criticsm of the EU that the UK could not import cheap bananas etc from Africa. Don't get me wrong I am all for free trade but I do not think customs unions or tariffs encourage free trade. The end result is you get smugglers - the ultimate 'free traders'.

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Only you find real world facts insulting.
    Never met an insulting fact, not sure one can find a fact insulting. Only people such as you trying to avoid a point. Yea I know... "the Senate illegaly elected Pompey" right? Just more BS and insults. Stick to the Scotch.

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