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Thread: US Steel & Aluminum Tariffs

  1. #301
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Claiming shock and awe now is being disingenuous.
    No it's not. But calling detention camps as concentration camps is. You do understand we stand on the same side as far as policies go.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    You can't deport them immediately, which means they have to be held in camps or released into the country.
    I know. We've been dealing with such issues since 1971.

    What I meant is if US doesn't want them, it can frame a law where-in anyone caught illegally entering your country have to give their biometrics and deportation occurs within 24 hrs.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

  3. #303
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    No it's not. But calling detention camps as concentration camps is. You do understand we stand on the same side as far as policies go.
    Yes, it absolutely is. When a candidate bases his entire campaign on calling people of a different country rapists and murderers, you are foolhardy to think that that is not how he will treat them once he gets elected.

    So Trump voters who are washing their hands off by saying that this is not what they voted for, you guys knew...
    Last edited by antimony; 25 Jun 18, at 03:34.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  4. #304
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    I know. We've been dealing with such issues since 1971.

    What I meant is if US doesn't want them, it can frame a law where-in anyone caught illegally entering your country have to give their biometrics and deportation occurs within 24 hrs.

    Houston, we have a problem.

    Amendment V
    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
    Trust me?
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  5. #305
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Yes, it absolutely is. When a candidate bases his entire campaign on calling people of a different country rapists and murderers, you are foolhardy to think that that is not how he will treat them once he gets elected.

    So Trump voters who are washing their hands off by saying that this is not what they voted for, you guys knew...
    Not disagreeing with you.

    But my point stands, those camps where children were being held are not concentration camps. There is no comparison, and I will not be let to believe because one of you told me so in this board. Hate trumps logical thinking, this is what it is.

    A simple google threw up these figures. 60.3% of the VEP voted. Out of that, about 45.9% voted for President Trump.

    Now, maybe not you, but many democrat supporters were busy merry making, went on a vacation, drinking - the day of the vote. I might be wrong in my assumption, so please tell me why didn't they go out and vote for Hillary? You want sources, I'll give you, if you ask, but I know you're smarter than that.

    President Trump won because people didn't go out and vote for the Democratic candidate. It's people who didn't vote that elected President Trump.

    When someone sees something wrong being done, they need to stand up, get counted and change that. It's done this time. Your time will come again. Wait for that, and vote President Trump out of power. It's the legal way.

    And in the meantime, figure out a legal way to solve issues you don't like. Gather like-minded people, spend money, get things moving.

    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    Houston, we have a problem.

    Amendment V
    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
    Try reading it again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    I know. We've been dealing with such issues since 1971.

    What I meant is if US doesn't want them, it can frame a law where-in anyone caught illegally entering your country have to give their biometrics and deportation occurs within 24 hrs.
    Now some history lesson about your fancy quote -->

    "Houston, we have a problem" is a popular but erroneous quote from the radio communications between the Apollo 13 astronaut John ("Jack") Swigert and the NASA Mission Control Center ("Houston") during the Apollo 13 spaceflight,[1] as the astronauts asked about their discovery of the explosion that doubted in their spacecraft. The erroneous wording was popularized by the 1995 film Apollo 13, a dramatization of the Apollo 13 mission, in which actor Tom Hanks, portraying Mission Commander Jim Lovell, uses that wording, which became one of the film's taglines.

    The words actually spoken, initially by Jack Swigert, were "Okay, Houston, we've had a problem here" (emphasis added). After being prompted to repeat the transmission by CAPCOM Jack R. Lousma, Lovell responded, "Uh, Houston, we've had a problem."
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

  6. #306
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Not disagreeing with you.

    But my point stands, those camps where children were being held are not concentration camps. There is no comparison, and I will not be let to believe because one of you told me so in this board. Hate trumps logical thinking, this is what it is.

    A simple google threw up these figures. 60.3% of the VEP voted. Out of that, about 45.9% voted for President Trump.

    Now, maybe not you, but many democrat supporters were busy merry making, went on a vacation, drinking - the day of the vote. I might be wrong in my assumption, so please tell me why didn't they go out and vote for Hillary? You want sources, I'll give you, if you ask, but I know you're smarter than that.

    President Trump won because people didn't go out and vote for the Democratic candidate. It's people who didn't vote that elected President Trump.

    When someone sees something wrong being done, they need to stand up, get counted and change that. It's done this time. Your time will come again. Wait for that, and vote President Trump out of power. It's the legal way.

    And in the meantime, figure out a legal way to solve issues you don't like. Gather like-minded people, spend money, get things moving.
    I am not questioning the legitimacy of Trump's Presidency. In fact I have said before that we as Americans are responsible for Trump, regardless of who we voted for, because collectively we have failed to prevent him. Therefore we all fully deserve whatever he is doing to the USA
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  7. #307
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    I am not questioning the legitimacy of Trump's Presidency. In fact I have said before that we as Americans are responsible for Trump, regardless of who we voted for, because collectively we have failed to prevent him. Therefore we all fully deserve whatever he is doing to the USA
    Slight correction.

    You guys have not failed collectively, because many support President Trump as well. And they should. It's a democratic process. Immigration is a touchy subject, their big data analyst figured that out, they also figured out the economic-policy disasters US made and focussed those on their rallying points. Why do you think PM Modi won?

    DATA. It's expensive than oil, right now.

    You guys lost. That's about it. You're lucky you don't live in KSA, you have your chances coming. Go out and vote.

    And so that things are clear, I support President Trump for his policies towards terrorism and terrorist supporting countries. He's an unpredictable dynamite.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

  8. #308
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Slight correction.

    You guys have not failed collectively, because many support President Trump as well. And they should. It's a democratic process. Immigration is a touchy subject, their big data analyst figured that out, they also figured out the economic-policy disasters US made and focussed those on their rallying points. Why do you think PM Modi won?

    DATA. It's expensive than oil, right now.

    You guys lost. That's about it. You're lucky you don't live in KSA, you have your chances coming. Go out and vote.

    And so that things are clear, I support President Trump for his policies towards terrorism and terrorist supporting countries. He's an unpredictable dynamite.
    That correction is incorrect, we as America have chosen Donald Trump. He is the President of the nation, not of his voters, because we as the United States of America have chosen him to be our President.

    We blame Islamic societies all the time, for not being able to exorcise the demons among their midst. But in most cases, they are not even in a position to do anything because they live in autocracies.

    We are the world's greatest democracy where we had a chance to reject this demon, and we went ahead and embraced him. We are culpable as a nation.

    I do not want Democrats to win in the fall. I want the Republicans to own this mess for the next 2 years. I want Obamacare repealed, rights of the religious championed over others (so that non Christian religions can now take advantage of them), a high tariff environment - everything Donald Trump campaigned for. Let's buckle down for 2 more years (possibly 6 more years) and see where that leaves us.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    we as America have chosen Donald Trump.
    With a little help from Uncle Vova.

  10. #310
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    Largest US nail manufacturer 'on the brink of extinction' because of the steel tariffs

    Steel tariffs could force the nation's largest nail manufacturer to close or move to Mexico.
    The Mid-Continent Nail plant in Poplar Bluff, Missouri, laid off 60 of its 500 workers last week because of increased steel costs. The company blames the 25% tariff on imported steel. Orders for nails plunged 50% after the company raised its prices to deal with higher steel costs.

    The company is in danger of shutting production by Labor Day unless the Commerce Department grants it an exclusion from paying the tariffs, company spokesman James Glassman told CNN's Poppy Harlow.

    Mid-Continent Nail is "on the brink of extinction," he said.

    Glassman said the company might relocate to Mexico, where it could buy the steel without the tariffs — and then export the finished nails back to the United States without tariffs, which only apply to raw materials.

    "It's obviously an option," said Glassman about moving to Mexico. "It absolutely is something this company does not want to do. It wants to save the jobs in Poplar Bluff, Missouri."

    Glassman called President Donald Trump's trade policy misguided. He noted that the company had doubled its work force since 2013, and thrived despite increased competition from China.

    About 21,000 US companies have filed for tariff exclusions. In a June 20 Senate hearing, Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross said Mid-Continent had filed a request for an exclusion only two days earlier.

    "I'm not belittling their situation at all. But given the importance of it to them, it's very unfortunate that they waited all these weeks to file the request," he said. "Under the authority we were granted, there is a process we have to follow."

    The US Chamber of Commerce has estimated that 2.6 million US jobs are at risk because of the Trump administration's hard-line policies on trade, although that estimate includes the impact of ending NAFTA. The tariffs that have already been proposed could cost the US economy about 700,000 jobs by next summer, according to Moody's Analytics.

    The area of Missouri where the plant is located voted 80% for President Trump. Glassman said he can't say whether people in town are still supporting the president.

    "They are scared, they are worried about their families. It's not like there are tons of other manufacturing jobs," he said. "If I were a Mid-Continent worker, I would be extremely unhappy with what this administration is doing."
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  11. #311
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    Harley-Davidson will move some production out of US after retaliatory tariffs

    President Donald Trump's trade policy is backfiring on Harley-Davidson.
    The company is shifting some production of motorcycles for European customers out of the United States to avoid EU retaliatory tariffs.

    Harley-Davidson's move is some of the most direct evidence yet that tit-for-tat trade fights between the United States and other countries have consequences for American companies. Harley-Davidson said it stood to lose as much as $100 million a year.

    "Increasing international production to alleviate the EU tariff burden is not the company's preference, but represents the only sustainable option," it said in a regulatory filing on Monday. Harley-Davidson's (HOG) stock tumbled 6%.

    Related: Trade war fears spread to tech and Dow sheds 328 points

    In an afternoon tweet, Trump said he was surprised "that Harley-Davidson, of all companies, would be the first to wave the White Flag."

    "Taxes just a Harley excuse - be patient!" he wrote.

    The EU began imposing tariffs Friday on $3.2 billion worth of American goods, including motorcycles, orange juice, bourbon, peanut butter, motorboats, cigarettes and denim. They are a response to the Trump administration's tariffs on steel and aluminum imports from Europe.

    For motorcycles, the European bloc raised its 6% tariff to 31%. That will make each bike about $2,200 more expensive to export, Harley-Davidson said.

    The company is not raising bike prices for customers or retailers.

    "The tremendous cost increase, if passed onto its dealers and retail customers, would have an immediate and lasting detrimental impact to its business in the region," the company said.

    Instead, it will eat $30 million to $45 million for the rest of this year and $90 to $100 million annually.

    The company did not say whether any jobs are at risk. Harley-Davidson, based in Milwaukee, employs more than 6,000 people globally. Spokesperson Michael Pflughoeft said the company was "assessing the potential impact" on jobs.

    It makes most of its motorcycles in the United States, at plants in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Missouri.

    Europe is its second-largest market behind the United States. In 2017, nearly 40,000 European customers bought new Harleys, compared with about 148,000 in the United States.

    Europe is becoming more important to the company as US sales slump. Harley-Davidson's US bike revenue dropped 8.5% last year from 2016, but only fell 0.4% in Europe.


    In January, the company said it was closing a factory in Kansas City, Missouri, and consolidating it into a York, Pennsylvania, assembly plant.

    Harley-Davidson opened plants in India and Brazil in recent years and is opening another in Thailand this year.

    Joe Capra, a spokesperson for the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers and its 425 union workers at the Kansas City plant, said Monday's decision did not surprise him.

    Capra said Harley-Davidson has not told its Kansas City workers whether the announcement will speed planned layoffs, which are scheduled to begin in August.

    —CNNMoney's Ivana Kottasová contributed to this story.
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  12. #312
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    The above provide even further evidence of the extraordinary accuracy with which protectionists manage to shoot themselves in the foot.
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  13. #313
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    The above provide even further evidence of the extraordinary accuracy with which protectionists manage to shoot themselves in the foot.
    its called winning. Buckle down for 6 more years
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  14. #314
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    its called winning. Buckle down for 6 more years
    I am so tired of this guy's definition of 'winning.'
    Trust me?
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  15. #315
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    I am so tired of this guy's definition of 'winning.'
    Kennedy just announced his retirement. what do you think the effect will be on Republican turnout?
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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