Page 20 of 26 FirstFirst ... 11121314151617181920212223242526 LastLast
Results 286 to 300 of 383

Thread: US Steel & Aluminum Tariffs

  1. #286
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
    Join Date
    22 Feb 08
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    4,095
    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Who voted for children to held in cages?
    44% (or whatever percent voted for "build the wall") of the electorate
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  2. #287
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
    Join Date
    26 Aug 06
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    1,495
    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Leading means setting an example. Elected people are elected to represent the people - what is representing them but a service? Who voted for children to held in cages? Nobody as far as I know. How is that representing the people then?
    That you disagree with something is exactly the point: the politicians are not there to serve you, they are there to make decisions. If you disagree with those decisions, you can petittion for redress of grievances and elect different people in the next election. They do NOT serve you and are NOT bound to respect your wishes: this is part of why we have representative government in the first place.

    But you have no right and no authority to make decisions yourselves. Only the lawful government does.

    No one even voted to drop an A-bomb on Japan. No one voted to invade Iraq. No one even voted for President Ford!
    Last edited by GVChamp; 20 Jun 18, at 19:29.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  3. #288
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
    Join Date
    02 Aug 03
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    11,774
    Full article: http://www.dw.com/en/eu-to-impose-co...day/a-44315190

    EU to impose countertariffs on US products as of Friday

    EU countertariffs on a list of US products would come into force on Friday, the European Commission said Wednesday.

    The retaliatory measure comes in response to US tariff hikes on steel and aluminum that were imposed on EU member countries on June 1, with the White House citing grounds of national security.

    "We did not want to be in this position," EU Trade Commissioner Cecilia Malmstrom said in a statement. "However, the unilateral and unjustified decision of the United States to impose steel and aluminum tariffs on the EU means that we are left with no other choice."

    'Doing nothing no option'

    The agreed EU countermeasures will initially target a list of US goods worth $3.2 billion (€2.8 billion), most of which will be hit with import duties of 25 percent.

    The products affected by the move range from agricultural produce such as rice and orange juice to jeans, bourbon, motorbikes and various steel products. The higher tariffs had previously been registered with the World Trade Organization (WTO).

    "The rules of international trade that we have developed over the years with our American partners cannot be violated without a reaction from our side," Malmstrom said. She called the EU's response "measured, proportionate and fully in line with WTO rules."
    Full article: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1JH0SK

    Coal in the crossfire: Chinese traders wary of being burnt by trade war

    BEIJING (Reuters) - At least three U.S. coal shipments on their way to China may end up casualties of the escalating trade dispute after Beijing said it would impose steep tariffs that may kick in before the ships reach their destinations.

    The addition of coal to the list of more than 650 items facing higher tariffs came as a shock to Chinese steel mills and trading firms that just last month were encouraged by Beijing to buy more U.S. coal to narrow the trade gap, four sources with knowledge of the plan said.

    Although 545 items on the list face higher tariffs starting July 6, Beijing did not specify when coal and the other remaining items would be hit.

    But coal’s presence on the list has sent shudders through the market.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  4. #289
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    08 Mar 11
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,776
    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    44% (or whatever percent voted for "build the wall") of the electorate
    Horseshit.
    If you want to really go out on a limb, 'build the wall' was on the ballot, but when people were allowed to vote, they voted for a candidate for a complex set of reasons.

    Putting kids in concentration camps wasn't on the ballot.
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

  5. #290
    Global Moderator
    Military Professional
    Defense Professional
    Albany Rifles's Avatar
    Join Date
    27 Apr 07
    Location
    Prince George, VA
    Posts
    8,684
    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    You are right, that was inappropriate and I do take that back. However, the main essense remains the same. Political appointees define policies, officials execute/ enforce them.

    No argument there.
    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
    Mark Twain

  6. #291
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
    Join Date
    22 Feb 08
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    4,095
    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    Horseshit.
    If you want to really go out on a limb, 'build the wall' was on the ballot, but when people were allowed to vote, they voted for a candidate for a complex set of reasons.

    Putting kids in concentration camps wasn't on the ballot.
    Visit Breitbart, foxnews.com, the Hill, National Review and the likes
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  7. #292
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
    Join Date
    26 Aug 06
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    1,495
    The people who voted for Trump probably are on board with prosecuting illegal entry to the extent of the law, which is going to lead to separate detentions for children as a matter of course. I don't think Trump is losing a TON of support from his base, just enough to kill the policy. Going from 44 to 40 is pretty damaging, even if it's only, what, 9% of your team.

    But, yeah, that's exactly the point, the people voting are not aware of all the nuances of policy. That's why you have a leadership team. THEY should be aware of the complications. Trump IS trying to throw red meat to his base, that's exactly the problem with politicians "Serving the people." The people know jack shit.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  8. #293
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    12 Jul 13
    Location
    Land of the One Horned Rhino
    Posts
    2,914
    Separating children from their parents and putting them in camps is not how I see the US. You don't want them (?), deport them immediately. This is very shameful, even if they are kids of illegal immigrants. Why President Trump make such policies just to back down I don't know. But calling the camps as concentration camps, is well, just as vile as the policy is. I also believe in respect for the Chair, irrespective of who the President is & which side the President leans on. I am no fan of Trump, but he won the elections and he is here to stay. Instead, work with him and try to find a middle ground.

  9. #294
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
    Join Date
    26 Aug 06
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    1,495
    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Separating children from their parents and putting them in camps is not how I see the US. You don't want them (?), deport them immediately. This is very shameful, even if they are kids of illegal immigrants. Why President Trump make such policies just to back down I don't know. But calling the camps as concentration camps, is well, just as vile as the policy is. I also believe in respect for the Chair, irrespective of who the President is & which side the President leans on. I am no fan of Trump, but he won the elections and he is here to stay. Instead, work with him and try to find a middle ground.
    You can't deport them immediately, which means they have to be held in camps or released into the country.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  10. #295
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    08 Mar 11
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,776
    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    You can't deport them immediately, which means they have to be held in camps or released into the country.
    There is no law against asking for asylum.
    If, and when someone breaks the law, there is no law that says their children must be subject to torture.

    What got me really outraged was the case of the 10 year-old Downs Syndrome child.

    My sister-in-law has Downs Syndrome.
    If she were treated the way this child was treated, it would constitute torture, pure and simple.

    Anyone who cannot understand this needs to regroup and reevaluate their core values.
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

  11. #296
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
    Join Date
    26 Aug 06
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    1,495
    I don't see how that changes the problem. The US can't deport someone immediately. If you are apprehened crossing the border, you get a hearing on whether you get deported. Protections increase dramatically if you are a child, family, or claiming asylum. Until you have a hearing, you have to be held in a camp or released into the nation. It's exactly the same for US criminals accused of crimes: if the police arrest you, we can't just try you right there, so we need to hold you in jail or you get to go free, until it is time for your trial.

    US citizens should obviously be allowed to go about their lives until otherwise convicted, but illegal immigrants aren't American citizens, or even lawful residents, so it's not at all obvious why they should be allowed in the nation while their trials proceeed.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  12. #297
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
    Join Date
    22 Feb 08
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    4,095
    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    The people who voted for Trump probably are on board with prosecuting illegal entry to the extent of the law, which is going to lead to separate detentions for children as a matter of course. I don't think Trump is losing a TON of support from his base, just enough to kill the policy. Going from 44 to 40 is pretty damaging, even if it's only, what, 9% of your team.

    But, yeah, that's exactly the point, the people voting are not aware of all the nuances of policy. That's why you have a leadership team. THEY should be aware of the complications. Trump IS trying to throw red meat to his base, that's exactly the problem with politicians "Serving the people." The people know jack shit.
    Americans do not get to walk away morally from this just by saying "Oh we did not vote for this or that policy". We knew exactly whom we were electing and we are responsible for everything he is doing.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  13. #298
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    12 Jul 13
    Location
    Land of the One Horned Rhino
    Posts
    2,914
    My core values constitute my family, than my country.....in that exact order. I don't take outrage when Hindus in Bangladesh and Pakistan are hounded, raped, converted and killed. I also don't take umbrage when the GoI is trying to identify illegal Bangladeshis & Rohingyas and trying to deport them from the country. Their country, their rules. My country, my rules.

    If you are a US citizen, and shit happens, then take the help of the law. Legal re-course is still far better in Western democracies than in 3rd world democratic countries. Never mind, theological and authoritarian states like China or Russia.

    President Trump signed a law, and border officials were acting according to that. It's legal. And President Trump just backed off and signed another that stops exactly what was happening. Are those caught asking for asylum or trying to sneak illegally in the US? If someone is genuinely asking for asylum, shouldn't he/she/they contact the US mission in their respective countries or get to US on a valid visa?

    The continuous attacks on President Trump is because he is a loudmouth, nothing else. And I believe policy should talk, not tweets. No one gains anything from confrontation. How many Americans questioned why Obama won the Nobel Prize for peace? Did Obama really deserve that?

    And comparing these camps that hold children with concentration camps is disingenuous and hypocritical.

    #1. US is no Nazi Germany. Children’s are not being used for finding out newer methods of torturous medical innovations, they are not given acid baths, those kids are not shot. Their heart, liver, and kidneys are not being sold. This Sir, happens in modern day China to the Falun Gong members.

    #2. By comparing those camps to concentration camps, you’re insulting the memory of millions of innocent Jews, Homosexuals, Slavs, Roma's etc who perished during WWII.

    #3. Immigration is a touchy subject. Governments would do well by controlling their borders, inviting only skilled people who can add to their economy and prosper. All Governments should do that.

    Funny how some defend China with it's appalling human rights/trade records, while they don't see the merit of being free and critical and name-calling the most powerful person in the world. In China and other like-minded countries, people get incarcerated or simply disappear. Some of you should not let your hate for President Trump cloud your judgement. As far as I am concerned, I am least interested in what happens in US politics. I hardly comment, I just read. But this continuous tirade of rants and whining is wrong. WAB as of now is becoming more like Pakistan defence forum and Indian defence forum. We all, including me, need to raise our standards.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________

    My maid in Mumbai/ Bangalore was a Bangladeshi. My thought on this subject is, if India cannot control illegal immigration (and India can't), India should make a new visa category, give it to those who want to work as maid, security guards etc. This way the Government can document those people and also, if necessary, earn taxes. Going by the present rule in my country, I can inform the authorities but I chose not to do that. If however, I do inform the authorities, then those poor people would languish in Indian jails for years, before finally being deported. Such is the condition of Indian judicial system.

    Those people are poor, and only poor people migrate illegally. They have nothing to lose, and all they want is to put food on the table. I choose to ignore. I don't try to score a political point over these issues, it's kind of - don't ask, don't tell. People who have a heart, help those people in whatever way they can, and don't bitch about it on forums. And frankly speaking, Col OOE is the only one taking on all with valid legal points.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - AR

    Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it!

  14. #299
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
    Join Date
    26 Aug 06
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    1,495
    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Americans do not get to walk away morally from this just by saying "Oh we did not vote for this or that policy". We knew exactly whom we were electing and we are responsible for everything he is doing.
    That doesn't mean everyone voted for this specific policy, though. Like you can drive down a neighborhood at 90 MPH, hit a kid, and still be responsible, but that doesn't mean you like murdering kids.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  15. #300
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
    Join Date
    22 Feb 08
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    4,095
    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    That doesn't mean everyone voted for this specific policy, though. Like you can drive down a neighborhood at 90 MPH, hit a kid, and still be responsible, but that doesn't mean you like murdering kids.
    Trump was very clear on how he would be handling immigrants and tariffs. He was very clear in how he viewed Immigrants from the Southern border. That was the essence of his whole campaign. Anyone who voted for him knew exactly what he would be doing. His most ardent supporters are just more honest in owning up to it.

    Claiming shock and awe now is being disingenuous.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 3 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 3 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Review: Man of Steel
    By gunnut in forum Movie & TV Room
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 12 Jul 13,, 10:15
  2. This Guy Has Balls of Steel
    By Bigfella in forum World Affairs Board Pub
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 07 Jul 09,, 01:37
  3. Mexico slaps tariffs on U.S. goods in truck feud
    By Donnie in forum International Economy
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 18 Mar 09,, 19:46
  4. U.S airforce using transparent aluminum?
    By canoe in forum Military Aviation
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 21 Oct 05,, 03:58
  5. EU scores steel victory over US
    By Ironduke in forum International Economy
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 11 Nov 03,, 20:15

Share this thread with friends:

Share this thread with friends:

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •