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Thread: US Steel & Aluminum Tariffs

  1. #256
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Also, 300 Russian mercs dead is a cheap deal if Putin can get the entire Western world in disarray.
    I think there were around 250-300 total enemy forces killed in the Khsham Incident. That includes Syrian government, Syrian paramilitary, foreign paramilitary/mercenary, and mercenaries who are Russian/ex-Soviet nationals.

    The number of Russians killed is surely higher than what little the Russian government has acknowledged, but the enemy death toll was not 100% Russians/ex-Soviet nationals. There may be some conflation when it comes to the numbers.

    Given the furious and devastating US air response to the attack on the former Conoco Oil Plant, there was really not much to go by in identifying bodies. Chunks of charred meat, bone, and ash likely comprises the vast majority of what could be recovered from the Syrian desert between Khsham and the Conoco Plant.

    I doubt any of the enemy combatants were wearing dog tags or even proper uniforms, record-keeping was probably scant to non-existent, especially in keeping with the (transparently thin) deniability aspect of the operation, so the best we can make is educated guesses as to what nationalities the enemy dead were. A substantial number of Russian mercenaries were killed though.

    Full article: http://money.cnn.com/2018/06/17/news...wto/index.html
    India moves ahead with tariffs on US goods

    India is moving forward with plans to hit back at the United States over trade.

    The country has proposed hiking tariffs on 30 US products in order to recoup trade penalties worth $241 million, according to a revised World Trade Organization filing.

    India said the retaliatory barriers are equal in value to US tariffs on steel and aluminum from India that were imposed by the Trump administration in March.

    The new tariffs target products including American almonds, walnuts and apples, as well as some chemical and metal products.

    India said its tariff on large American motorcycles, which President Donald Trump has repeatedly spoken out against, will also be hiked.

    The latest filing with the World Trade Organization submitted by New Delhi is dated June 14. It updates an initial complaint about US metals tariffs made on May 18.

    India said last month that its proposed tariffs on US goods would take effect by June 21.

    The Indian government is also leaving the door open for further tariff hikes, it said in its latest notification.

    "India reserves the right to adjust the specific products for which [tariffs would apply], and its right to adjust the additional rate of duty imposed on such products," it said.

    Exports of steel and aluminum from India to the United States are worth around $1.2 billion, according to the World Trade Organization filing.

    The United States sold goods and services worth $42 billion to India in 2016, according to the US Trade Representative. That translated into a US trade deficit with India of $30.8 billion.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 18 Jun 18, at 03:17.
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  2. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    You obviously missed the ZTE news,
    ZTE ain't getting off scott free, requiring a big restructure and Trump just went ahead with the $50bil tarrif. So, Xi is getting hit and getting hit big time.

    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    and Putin has Trump batting for him across the board. Also, 300 Russian mercs dead is a cheap deal if Putin can get the entire Western worls in disarray.
    Show me the money. As stated before, it does Putin zero good if the rest of the alliance stands firm against him. The US ain't going to buy 1 litre of gas nor oil from Putin.

  3. #258
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    ZTE ain't getting off scott free, requiring a big restructure and Trump just went ahead with the $50bil tarrif. So, Xi is getting hit and getting hit big time.
    Why is ZTE getting a repreive in the first place, just after a 7 year ban? What possible reason could there be?

    President Xi of China, and I, are working together to give massive Chinese phone company, ZTE, a way to get back into business, fast. Too many jobs in China lost. Commerce Department has been instructed to get it done!
    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Show me the money. As stated before, it does Putin zero good if the rest of the alliance stands firm against him. The US ain't going to buy 1 litre of gas nor oil from Putin.
    I have already done that: Real estate deals and ludicrous diner attendance fees in India, Trump Hotels sales bost among foreign dignitaries. If you refuse to see all this then that is not my problem.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/22/w...-jr-india.html
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...=.33711e6da1b9
    Last edited by antimony; 17 Jun 18, at 21:18.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  4. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Why is ZTE getting a repreive in the first place, just after a 7 year ban? What possible reason could there be?
    The sanction is on national security grounds, ZTE is accused of selling American technology to Iran. ZTE claims innocense and whatever technology was passed, it was part of a device, ie android phones, tablets, etc. Stuff you and I get on eBay. ZTE got its reprieve after offerring a complete company re-organization to satisfy US government requirements that such transactions will not happen in the future, ie they will make sure that all products with American tech will not be sold to Iran and any sales to Iran would only contain Chinese technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    I have already done that: Real estate deals and ludicrous diner attendance fees in India, Trump Hotels sales bost among foreign dignitaries. If you refuse to see all this then that is not my problem.
    You said every non-Western tinpot dictator can see this. I just counter that Putin and Xi, the two largest non-Western dictators are still getting whacked.

  5. #260
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    The sanction is on national security grounds, ZTE is accused of selling American technology to Iran. ZTE claims innocense and whatever technology was passed, it was part of a device, ie android phones, tablets, etc. Stuff you and I get on eBay. ZTE got its reprieve after offerring a complete company re-organization to satisfy US government requirements that such transactions will not happen in the future, ie they will make sure that all products with American tech will not be sold to Iran and any sales to Iran would only contain Chinese technology.
    "They will make sure" - you know how much horse puckey is packed in statements like that, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    You said every non-Western tinpot dictator can see this. I just counter that Putin and Xi, the two largest non-Western dictators are still getting whacked.
    First of all, you accept that Trump is getting paid off. Yes or no.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  6. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    "They will make sure" - you know how much horse puckey is packed in statements like that, right?
    The reorganization is to US Government stipulations. Whatever loophole there is would be the fault of the US Government written requirements.

    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    First of all, you accept that Trump is getting paid off. Yes or no.
    That's easy. No. The is the USA. He is to have a hands off dealing with all his financial performances are in trust. Trump is under a constant government watchdog to make sure that he has zero dealings in his own financial affairs. It is only after he leaves government that he can resume his private practises.

    Now, you're going to say but that's his son. How much hands off is there? None as far as the US Government is concerned.

    Now, are you going to tell me that Xi and Putin are not being whacked?

  7. #262
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    The reorganization is to US Government stipulations. Whatever loophole there is would be the fault of the US Government written requirements.
    That is a lawyer's answer. It was a discretionary reprieve, which he did not need to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    That's easy. No. The is the USA. He is to have a hands off dealing with all his financial performances are in trust. Trump is under a constant government watchdog to make sure that he has zero dealings in his own financial affairs. It is only after he leaves government that he can resume his private practises.

    Now, you're going to say but that's his son. How much hands off is there? None as far as the US Government is concerned.
    Yeah, no. His trust is not a blind or divestiture trust. Other Presidents have chosen a Blind Trust mechanism,he has not. So your premise is wrong. The Trustees are Eric and Don Jr. who are hardly independent, and he can withdraw money from the Trust whenever he chooses. Meanwhile, he has directed tax dollars to his properties because he chooses them when he is out of town. Even the Federal Governement has done that. The DOD has spent quite a lot of money on Trump properties. Pentagon officials are now increasingly choosing Trump properties for business travel. Meanwhile, Mar-a-lago fees have increased and so have Trump DC room rates (40% higher than peers), which is now a hotspot for foreign governments and lobbying firms.

    You seem to be far more permissive, just because it is Trump.

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Now, are you going to tell me that Xi and Putin are not being whacked?
    How the hell is Putin getting whacked? Just because Trump bombed Syria? And China, they have extracted benefits, now they need to pay off the Trump whisperers too. That is how corruption works
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  8. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    That is a lawyer's answer. It was a discretionary reprieve, which he did not need to do.
    Within his preorgative and completely legal. The only thing I can deduced is that ZTE is also a major supplier to a lot of American companies. Banning them outright would detract US production until replacement products can be found. I'm satisfied that there was no Conflict of Interest articles being violated.

    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Yeah, no. His trust is not a blind or divestiture trust. Other Presidents have chosen a Blind Trust mechanism,he has not. So your premise is wrong. The Trustees are Eric and Don Jr. who are hardly independent, and he can withdraw money from the Trust whenever he chooses. Meanwhile, he has directed tax dollars to his properties because he chooses them when he is out of town. Even the Federal Governement has done that. The DOD has spent quite a lot of money on Trump properties. Pentagon officials are now increasingly choosing Trump properties for business travel. Meanwhile, Mar-a-lago fees have increased and so have Trump DC room rates (40% higher than peers), which is now a hotspot for foreign governments and lobbying firms.

    You seem to be far more permissive, just because it is Trump.
    I trust the Conflict of Interest bodies in the US Government. As long as they say it is ok, then I am not going to be one to counter their decisions.

    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    How the hell is Putin getting whacked? Just because Trump bombed Syria?
    The sanctions remained in place and new ones have been brought on. Trump has not brought on any relief.

    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    And China, they have extracted benefits, now they need to pay off the Trump whisperers too. That is how corruption works
    Benefits? Trump just slapped a $50bil tarrif on them.
    Last edited by WABs_OOE; 18 Jun 18, at 04:34.

  9. #264
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Col.,

    He gave Syria to Putin.
    Next you’ll be telling us that the Foreign Service lost China. Syria wasn’t Obama’s to give; it has been a Russian client state since the days of the USSR.

    His Red Line in the Sand had nothing to do Congress. He didn't seek Congressional Approval for Lybia, bombing ISIL, nor taking out OBL. Congress was his way of chickening out when there was no popular support for his actions.
    He did lay out a plan that involved congressional approval, and was going to congress – papers drafted and time allocated – when Putin made his offer. What happened with Libya, ISIL or Osama bin Laden doesn’t change that, and in fact is likely part of the reason he planned to go to congress for approval.

    Xi just got slapped with $50bil in tarrifs.
    Read my overly long post. Particularly the second line: “Because Washington is unhappy with Beijing, America will punish the people and companies in America that buy the following things from China:”
    $50 billion worth of self-flagellation.
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

  10. #265
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    So you against the OBL hit now? You think they should have got a pass?
    That op would've looked pretty stupid if it happened that OBL wasn't there and the guys got stuck in Pakistan surrounded by a couple divisions. Carter and the hostage rescue mission all over again.

    Regardless, if you support the OBL raid or the drone strikes, you don't give a shit about int'l sovereignty or int'l law. Which you shouldn't, because those are made-up things. Now, the goodwill of your allies, that's definitely more important, but this is an economic spat more than a defense relationship breakdown.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  11. #266
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    That op would've looked pretty stupid if it happened that OBL wasn't there and the guys got stuck in Pakistan surrounded by a couple divisions. Carter and the hostage rescue mission all over again.

    Regardless, if you support the OBL raid or the drone strikes, you don't give a shit about int'l sovereignty or int'l law. Which you shouldn't, because those are made-up things. Now, the goodwill of your allies, that's definitely more important, but this is an economic spat more than a defense relationship breakdown.
    Look up Pak.def (or whataver it is called now) - as per them it was a joint operation between ISI and US forces. Please direct any incredulity towards them.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  12. #267
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Within his preorgative and completely legal. The only thing I can deduced is that ZTE is also a major supplier to a lot of American companies. Banning them outright would detract US production until replacement products can be found. I'm satisfied that there was no Conflict of Interest articles being violated.
    So now it is a politicians answer. You would have cried to high heavens if this was Obama or the Clintons

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    I trust the Conflict of Interest bodies in the US Government. As long as they say it is ok, then I am not going to be one to counter their decisions.
    Ah the old "I trust the government will do the right thing" answer. His sons are the independent trustees, for fuck's sake!!! His hotel is at half occupancy compared to other similar properties and yet rates are 40% higher. Why? Because he has got an inelastic demand. You can continue to delude yourself, the rest of us do not have to.

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    The sanctions remained in place and new ones have been brought on. Trump has not brought on any relief.

    Benefits? Trump just slapped a $50bil tariff on them.
    He has been bitching and moaning every time a new sanctions bill is placed in front of him. China? ZTE. Please feel free to contunue to be satisfied. The rest of us refuse to have that wool pulled over our eyes

    Also, you turned my point completely around. Here is what I said.

    The non-western world has already woken up to this. Every other little tinpot dictator is handled this way, why not Trump?
    Are you saying that Xi and Putin do not take bribes?
    Last edited by antimony; 18 Jun 18, at 15:13.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  13. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    So now it is a politicians answer. You would have cried to high heavens if this was Obama or the Clintons

    Ah the old "I trust the government will do the right thing" answer. His sons are the independent trustees, for fuck's sake!!! His hotel is at half occupancy compared to other similar properties and yet rates are 40% higher. Why? Because he has got an inelastic demand. You can continue to delude yourself, the rest of us do not have to.
    First of all, I have NEVER question the integrety of the US Government NOR its institutions no matter who was the POTUS. The US has not and did not became a respected world power by being a banana republic. I BELIEVE in the Checks and Balances of ALL Western Nations that I've defended. I BELIEVE in their Institutions.

    This is why I no longer count Turkey amongst us though I still trust their military without questions asked.

    You, however, are questioning and insulting the very country 's institutions you've just became a citizen to.

    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    He has been bitching and moaning every time a new sanctions bill is placed in front of him.
    This is the acutal proof of this. American Institutions will not allow Trump to do otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    China? ZTE. Please feel free to contunue to be satisfied. The rest of us refuse to have that wool pulled over our eyes
    The US is about to be plunged into a trade war with China. Feel free to be blind to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Also, you turned my point completely around. Here is what I said.

    Are you saying that Xi and Putin do not take bribes?
    They take the same bribes as every world power take. You can bribe them with power, not money.

    I'm under no illusion that Trump is an asshole and I do not want him to be my PM. However, it is certainly fun to see a world where Trump don't give a rat's ass about anyone's sensibilities. He can be your best friend and your worst enemy in the span of two hours. Trudeau and Marcon leaned that the hard way. It's fun to see Trump telling Trudeau to take his grandstanding and shove it.

    If you think that Trump has not and would not tell Putin and Xi the same thing, 300 mercs and $100bil (both American and Chinese tarrifs combined) say you're wrong.

    Fact is no one has figured out how to handle Trump. Not the West, not Putin, not Xi, and certainly, not India. And all of this is fun to watch.
    Last edited by WABs_OOE; 18 Jun 18, at 18:57.

  14. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    Next you’ll be telling us that the Foreign Service lost China. Syria wasn’t Obama’s to give; it has been a Russian client state since the days of the USSR.
    Major correction here. Russia lost Syria when the USSR collapsed and the US effectively controlled the area with the conquest of Iraq. Obama's action or rather inaction allowed Russian and Iranian forces to gain a foothold in the area and has now escalated into a direct threat to Israel.

    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    He did lay out a plan that involved congressional approval, and was going to congress – papers drafted and time allocated – when Putin made his offer. What happened with Libya, ISIL or Osama bin Laden doesn’t change that, and in fact is likely part of the reason he planned to go to congress for approval.
    Post British vote and was looking to shift the blame for not striking at Syria. There was no teeth to the offer and I was surprised that known chem weapons factories were not shut down.

    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    Read my overly long post. Particularly the second line: “Because Washington is unhappy with Beijing, America will punish the people and companies in America that buy the following things from China:”
    $50 billion worth of self-flagellation.
    I know tarrifs punish buyers and not sellers but that doesn't change the fact the US will be buying less Chinese goods as a result.

  15. #270
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    Syria wasn’t Obama’s to give; it has been a Russian client state since the days of the USSR.
    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Major correction here. Russia lost Syria when the USSR collapsed and the US effectively controlled the area with the conquest of Iraq. Obama's action or rather inaction allowed Russian and Iranian forces to gain a foothold in the area and has now escalated into a direct threat to Israel.
    It's worth noting, that Syria was a US ally during the Persian Gulf War, and the US more or less tolerated and allowed Syria a free hand in instituting the Pax Syriana of the 90s and 00s.

    The Colonel has got his facts right on this point.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 18 Jun 18, at 18:19.
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