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Thread: US Steel & Aluminum Tariffs

  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    When did the Canadian war start?
    A few hours ago.

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    Doubtless retribution for their burning down the Whitehouse before they existed as a country.

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    the fervor is not the same. this is essentially an (economic) war of choice, so i suspect political support for Trump imposing tariffs is quite a bit lower than for Trudeau/Nieto/Macron/Abe/etc etc in imposing counter-tariffs.
    We're not talking about political support from the entire spectrum, just specifically Trump's rather narrow political coalition. And it's a pretty small, precarious political coalition, which quite explicitly promised a renegotiation on trade. It's ALWAYS been in the US political calculation, but it's definitely front and center in the Trump platform in a way that it was not for other elected platforms.

    Trump NOT imposing tariffs is tantamount to Obama not even attempting to pass health care reform. I don't see how Trump isn't as bound into his course of action as, say, Merkel.

    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    Nobody is holding a gun to Trump's head to slap these tariffs on imports. His top ecomomic adviser quit over this issue. It's foolish to ignore that Trump was the unstable ignorant asshole that put a torch to the fuse, nobody else.

    Also, who the hell is going "rah rah go Europe" around here?
    Nobody is holding a gun to anyone's head to impose retaliatory tariffs! That's just a random assumption people on this thread are making! These are sovereign nations that are responsible for their own reactions, and OVER reactions are just as damaging as the initial action.The imposition of retaliatory tariffs just complicates rolling back everything to status quo, assuming that's what you want.

    Trump doesn't want to roll back to status quo anyways, so why should he care? The assumption that the US can win a trade war means the imposition of retaliatory tariffs are GOOD things. It's just escalating a war he already thinks he can win.

    Also any status quo that is not based on US supremacy is doomed to fail anyways, so I'm not particularly wedded to this system.

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    When did the Canadian war start?
    This is a misunderstanding. "National Security" does not mean we expect Canadians to invade, it means we want our own supplies to nationalize in case of war. The American Army cannot go into Canada and take over Canadian steel mills if for some reason we need more steel.

    To your other comment, again, "aggressor" doesn't mean anything. I understand you think America is the "aggressor." A lot of people who voted for Trump think the other nations are the "aggressor." And even though I am a general supporter of Free Trade, if we started slapping tariffs on China, I would not think anyone would define the US as the "aggressor."

    Also, Germany has no right to accuse anyone else of being economically "aggressive" after their shitshow of austerity packages for the last decade.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  4. #199
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    We're not talking about political support from the entire spectrum, just specifically Trump's rather narrow political coalition. And it's a pretty small, precarious political coalition, which quite explicitly promised a renegotiation on trade. It's ALWAYS been in the US political calculation, but it's definitely front and center in the Trump platform in a way that it was not for other elected platforms.

    Trump NOT imposing tariffs is tantamount to Obama not even attempting to pass health care reform. I don't see how Trump isn't as bound into his course of action as, say, Merkel.
    eh...i don't see anyone, even in Trumpland, whom was calling for Trump to wage a trade war on pretty much every single US ally in the world at the same time. now a good portion of the GOP base, like the Iowan farmers whom NEED exports to survive, are hanging out there.

    and that's not the only promise Trump made on the campaign trail. where's the bloody wall? where's that huge infrastructure plan?

    economic nationalism was a pillar of Trump's campaign, yes, but the core of Trump's support has always been based off cultural war stuff-- immigration.

    playing the trade war stuff is a lot of cost for very little gain, either politically or economically. and what support there IS for it will probably disappear once it starts hitting the pocketbook. :shrug:
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    "This is Radio Free Canada broadcasting to our friends in the American Resistance..."

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    The loon is off the water.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    "This is Radio Free Canada broadcasting to our friends in the American Resistance..."

    The poutine has extra cheese.
    The poutine has extra cheese.

    The beaver is wearing flannel.
    The beaver is wearing flannel.

    The loon is off the water.
    The loon is off the water.

    The curling ice is melted.
    The curling ice is melted.
    Right now I've got a few words for some of our brothers and sisters in the Occupied Zone:

    The chair is against the wall
    The chair is against the wall

    John has a long mustache
    John has a long mustache

    It's twelve o'clock, Americans, another day closer to victory.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to take rank with those poor, timid spirits who know neither victory nor defeat ~ Theodore Roosevelt

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by hboGYT View Post
    You can always reason that, in times of war, I want domestic production of [insert goods and services] that cannot be disrupted by foreign powers.
    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    This is a misunderstanding. "National Security" does not mean we expect Canadians to invade, it means we want our own supplies to nationalize in case of war. The American Army cannot go into Canada and take over Canadian steel mills if for some reason we need more steel.
    Right so imposing sanctions on your allies for "national security" purposes is really just like playing footsies or giving them a playfull kick? It should in no way be regarded as hostile.... Funny how words have to change their meaning for Trumpkin apologists.

    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    To your other comment, again, "aggressor" doesn't mean anything. I understand you think America is the "aggressor." A lot of people who voted for Trump think the other nations are the "aggressor." And even though I am a general supporter of Free Trade, if we started slapping tariffs on China, I would not think anyone would define the US as the "aggressor."

    Also, Germany has no right to accuse anyone else of being economically "aggressive" after their shitshow of austerity packages for the last decade.
    Well I certainly agree regarding German economic policy in the EU. But look the aggressor is the one who changes the starts changing the status quo - the first to cross the border into their neighbours land or put tarriffs on their trading partners goods. I actually thought Trump said he was doing these tarriffs specifically toward China but it seems he must do the Kremlin's bidding and penalise US allies. You really believe this is good for US interests? The Kremlin will be very happy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Right so imposing sanctions on your allies for "national security" purposes is really just like playing footsies or giving them a playfull kick? It should in no way be regarded as hostile.... Funny how words have to change their meaning for Trumpkin apologists.
    You are putting words in Trump's mouth. He's imposing tarrifs, not sanctions. There is a difference. A big difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Well I certainly agree regarding German economic policy in the EU. But look the aggressor is the one who changes the starts changing the status quo - the first to cross the border into their neighbours land or put tarriffs on their trading partners goods. I actually thought Trump said he was doing these tarriffs specifically toward China but it seems he must do the Kremlin's bidding and penalise US allies. You really believe this is good for US interests? The Kremlin will be very happy.
    Right. The Kremlin is extremely happy the EU is buying less Russian oil and gas because they don't have to make so much steel.

    Diplomat, economist, soldier, you are not.

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Right. The Kremlin is extremely happy the EU is buying less Russian oil and gas because they don't have to make so much steel.

    Diplomat, economist, soldier, you are not.
    But Canada is the biggest steel exporter to the US. Putin wants to split Europe and the Atlantic alliance; Trumpkin is doing his bidding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    But Canada is the biggest steel exporter to the US.
    And Trump just put $15bil into Ottawa's coffers while the demand for Canadian steel has not gone down.

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Putin wants to split Europe and the Atlantic alliance; Trumpkin is doing his bidding.
    Nice invite to Putin to reform the G8.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    And Trump just put $15bil into Ottawa's coffers while the demand for Canadian steel has not gone down.
    And increased steel prices in the US.

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Nice invite to Putin to reform the G8.
    Hard to 'reform' a meeting of leaders when he is not invited. Why because he annexed Crimea and persecuting the native Tatars there. Chamberlain was a fool but when Trumpkin does appeasement it is 'statesmanship'?

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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    And increased steel prices in the US.
    Not our problem. The extra money goes into US govverment coffers. The sad truth is that all of the US steel makers cannot meet US demand for steel. The buyers will pay the extra prices because they have to.

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Hard to 'reform' a meeting of leaders when he is not invited. Why because he annexed Crimea and persecuting the native Tatars there. Chamberlain was a fool but when Trumpkin does appeasement it is 'statesmanship'?
    There goes your splitting of the EU and the US. A supposedly pro-Putin US adds zero dollars into Putin's pockets while an anti-Putin EU sufferring from US tarrifs will cut into Putin's pockets. Yeah, Putin sure came out ahead in this deal.
    Last edited by WABs_OOE; 13 Jun 18, at 20:47.

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    There goes your splitting of the EU and the US. A supposedly pro-Putin US adds zero dollars into Putin's pockets while an anti-Putin EU sufferring from US tarrifs will cut into Putin's pockets. Yeah, Putin sure came out ahead in this deal.

    A trade with US and it's allies in no way helps Putin... yea right and the Senate elected 'Pompey'.

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    A trade with US and it's allies in no way helps Putin...
    You mean a trade war. How does a trade war help Putin? He has nothing that can replace US trade and all the while, the participating governments get richer through tax grabs. Get it through your head. If the buyers need the products, they will pay the tarrifs. Putin cannot supply the products.

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    yea right and the Senate elected 'Pompey'.
    Here you go again, bringing stupidity and irrelevent and obviously wrong illusions into this.

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    If you cannot see that Putin's ambition is to cause splits in the 'Western' alliance and that Trumpkin has delivered that for him, which is blindingly obvious for all with eyes, I am not going to educate you.

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