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Thread: US Steel & Aluminum Tariffs

  1. #136
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    Any worst than China's demand that any car companies in China must be at least 50% China owned with access to all technologies; including driver AI and fuel cells?

  2. #137
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    That is a different issue dealing with technology transfers and should be handled but handled separately. Right now China doesn't export cars to the U.S. although Ford will be having their Focus built there next year.

    This tariff is supposed to put pressure on Mexico in regards to NAFTA? What it does is increase the cost of American manufacturers cars ie. current Ford Focus. I know of no Mexican car brands. Quick way to kill off what is left of the Ford Focus price wise. All because he wants more American content in them? How is he going to do that given that American content manufacturers have moved much of their factories to Mexico and China. I have 10 cars and order all my own parts and does anyone know how hard it is to find American sourced parts? Well, I know very well. I just had two Four Seasons A/C hoses come in and they were made in China. Motorcraft (Ford) now makes much of their stuff in China/Mexico and I have six Fords. I need to go to eBay to find old NOS American made product many times for basic items like bearings. Fall back is Japan.

    However, since I am not in the market for a new car (never again) this won't affect me there. It will affect anyone else in far higher prices all around. Makes those 3-5 year car loans look quaint now that 6 and 7 are common and could become more common as cars ratchet up in price. If he thinks this is good news for American workers he is nuts. You are not going to increase the cost of a Mercedes enough so the person switches to a Cadillac. Cadillac is a dead man walking because of horrible choices by GM more than competition. American sedans going the way of the Dodo with Ford is not only because buyers want CUVs but also because Ford has given up trying to match Toyota and Honda after all these years. So they decide to cede the market. Good for them although I dislike SUVs/CUVs/Trucks intensely as daily drivers.

  3. #138
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    List of vehicles with at least 75% U.S. parts. A lot of Not "Big 3 " cars n this list

    https://www.cheatsheet.com/automobil...tml/?a=viewall
    Last edited by Gun Grape; 25 May 18, at 17:16.
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  4. #139
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Budget and Trade

    The majority of the Current Account balance is physical, merchandise trade.
    The flip side of the Current-Account balance is the Capital Account balance.
    The majority of the Capital Account balance is investment into the USA.
    The majority of investment into the USA is foreign purchase of US Treasury Bills and Agency paper.
    The majority of US Treasury Bills and Agency paper are issued to cover up budget deficits.

    Therefore, . . .
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  5. #140
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    it's really weird to watch parts of the GOP descend into mercantilism.

    and because of the vagaries of globalization, it's really a random hodgepodge: iowa GOP, for instance, doesn't want to dork up the China trade, but less-exposed Indiana GOP is more supportive of the Trump tariffs.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  6. #141
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Time running out for Trump on NAFTA talks. It is acknowledge that a good deal is where both sides walk away from the table happy and with something. The win-win ending. However, and no surprise since it is what he is, Trump doesn't believe in that. He gets the win-win and Mexico and Canada get a lose-lose.

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump is running out of time to deliver a revamp of the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) he promised for this year and people involved in the talks say the crunch is largely of his administration’s own making.

    Negotiators, industry lobbyists, trade experts and lawmakers briefed on the talks described how precious months passed before the U.S team presented its proposals and how the talks stalled because the demands far exceeded what Canada and Mexico had expected and Washington signaled no readiness to compromise.

    In the end, an unusually tight timetable allowed little space to bridge differences on the core issues, such as U.S. and regional content requirements for the auto industry.

    Talks started last August with a goal to conclude in just four months, but as a May 17 notification deadline to allow the current Republican-led U.S. Congress to approve a new agreement before year end passed, U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer warned a deal was “nowhere near close.”
    TIME PRESSURE SHIFTS

    Up until a few weeks ago, Lighthizer thought Mexico faced the biggest time pressure to wrap up the talks before its July 1 presidential elections, a Mexican source close to the talks told Reuters.

    In early May, however, Mexican Economy Minister Ildefonso Guajardo told Lighthizer in Washington that he would be able to negotiate a NAFTA agreement up until the Dec. 1 transition to a new government - even if an opposition candidate won.

    Suddenly, it was the United States running against the looming congressional deadline, the Mexican source said.

    The Trump administration's negotiating goals submitted to Congress in July 2017 talked of shrinking trade deficits with Mexico and Canada and boosting U.S. auto production.

    In contrast, the U.S. neighbors saw the talks more as a “modernization” exercise, proposing, for example, chapters on digital trade that did not exist when NAFTA took effect in 1994.

    Broadly, both were fine with the status quo, so when it took Washington two months to present specific demands the delay played into their hands.

    “How can you launch talks to update a treaty and then make everyone wait months before you explain what you want,” asked one Canadian official briefed on the talks.

    Lighthizer’s office said he was clear all along about aiming to “rebalance” NAFTA trade in U.S. favor.

    “The United States has been very clear and specific from the start about what we hope to see in a new NAFTA and has worked at an unprecedented pace to negotiate a better deal for America,” the office’s spokesman said.

    When Lighthizer’s team presented the demands in October, Canadian and Mexican officials said they amounted to surrendering decades of trade benefits, which they could not accept.

    U.S. business groups labeled those demands “poison pills” that threatened to derail the talks and prompt Trump to quit the pact. The key ones were: a steep increase in regional automotive content requirements, a demand for half the value of North American vehicles to originate in the United States and a requirement to renegotiate the pact every five years.

    All remain unresolved, despite nearly eight weeks of marathon negotiations in Washington in April and May, focused mainly on autos.

    Canada and Mexico had their role in running down the clock. It has taken Ottawa and Mexico three months to produce counterproposals, drawing criticism from Lighthizer they were failing to “engage.”

    Canadian and Mexican negotiators argued they needed time to understand the logic of U.S. demands because they came without customary backup evidence and analysis. U.S. negotiators said it was the consequence of the extremely tight timetable.

    But U.S. chief negotiator John Melle privately complained to U.S. colleagues that Ottawa was deliberately wasting time on less essential matters, such as proposed new chapters on women’s and indigenous people’s rights, a U.S. source close to the talks said. Canadian officials deny trying to drag out negotiations.

    Speaking at a business event early this year, Canada’s veteran chief negotiator, Steve Verheul, described the talks as the “most unusual negotiation” he had ever been involved in, because of Washington’s winner-takes-all approach.

    “They are looking to strengthen the U.S. and by doing that weaken Canada and Mexico.”
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-t...-idUSKCN1IU0E2

  7. #142
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Here's a fairly long article concerning the German economy, the Chinese strong move into the German economy, getting stuck between China and the U.S. regarding tariffs, and what it could mean for Germany's economy.

    This part caught my attention regarding China's goal for 2049 in relation to the world, or maybe new world order. Yet apparently China will have some population issues to deal with in the next decade or two. Of course, we spend our time trying to think of new ways to divide our country rather then unite it for our betterment.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/...a-1209325.html

    KUKA is exactly the kind of company that China is looking for. After all, the country has a plan. Few in Germany took much notice when Beijing announced it in the form of a document called "Made in China 2025." Written in the rather unwieldy terminology of communism, it describes how China intends to become an economic superpower. It was essentially the equivalent of throwing down the gauntlet to the West.

    The plan calls for transforming China into a "major manufacturing power" by 2025, reaching an "intermediate level among world manufacturing powers" by 2035 and becoming "the leader among the world's manufacturing powers" by 2049, the centennial of the founding of the People's Republic. The master plan does not allow for potential economic crises. "Advanced technology is the sharp weapon of the modern state," President Xi said in a 2013 speech that offers a powerful expression of the country's new industrial strategy. "Our technology still generally lags (behind) that of developed countries, and we must adopt an asymmetrical strategy of catching up and overtaking."

    What he means is that he wants to make more rapid progress than others in 10 key fields: information technology, automation and robotics, aerospace and aeronautics, oceanographic engineering and high-tech shipping, high-speed rail, electric vehicles, electric power equipment, agricultural machinery, new materials, pharmaceuticals and medical equipment.

  8. #143
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Full article: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1IV013

    Chinese state media slam U.S. trade announcement, say Beijing ready to fight

    SHANGHAI (Reuters) - Chinese state media criticized a U.S. announcement that it would press ahead with restrictions on investment by Chinese companies, saying on Wednesday that Beijing was ready to fight back if Washington was looking to reignite a trade war.

    The United States said on Tuesday it still held the threat of imposing tariffs on $50 billion of imports from China and would use it unless Beijing addressed the issue of theft of American intellectual property.

    China commerce’s ministry reacted harshly, saying it was surprised and saw it as contrary to the consensus both sides reached recently.

    State news agency Xinhua said China hoped that the United States would not act impulsively but stood ready to fight to protect its own interests.

    “China’s attitude, as always, is: we do not want to fight, but we are also not afraid to fight,” it said in the commentary by Xinhua reporter Yu Jiaxin.

    “China will continue to hold pragmatic consultations with the United States’ delegation and hope that the United States will act in accordance with the spirit of the joint statement,” it said.

    Chinese tabloid the Global Times said the United States was suffering from a “delusion” and warned that the “trade renege could leave Washington dancing with itself”.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  9. #144
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    Except for ZTE spy phones, banned by US Military, because it may cost too many Chinese jobs - according to Trumpkin of the 'America first' bluster.

    Meanwhile quite unrelated Trumpkin's daughter get Chinese licenses to sell her franchised rubbish in China worth millions.

    Nothing shady there - move along.

  10. #145
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Full article: http://www.dw.com/en/us-slaps-steel-...-eu/a-44014510

    US slaps steel and aluminum tariffs on the EU

    Officials from both sides of the Atlantic were unable to reach a deal to avert tariffs two days before the exemption expires. The EU has said it will announce retaliatory measures shortly.

    US Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross told reporters on Thursday that a 25 percent tariff on steel imports and a 10 percent tariff on aluminum imports from the EU, Canada and Mexico would indeed go into effect at midnight after those countries were unable to make a deal with the US ahead of a Friday deadline.

    "We look forward to continued negotiations, both with Canada and Mexico on the one hand, and with the European Commission on the other hand, because there are other issues that we also need to get resolved," Ross said.

    • Germany and France condemned US President Donald Trump's plan to impose tariffs, saying both countries are working closely to develop countermeasures.
    • Canada announced retaliatory duties on beef, coffee, candies, plywood and maple syrup, alongside steel and aluminum, amounting to $12.8 billion (€10.9 billion).
    • Mexico said it would impose penalties on steel sheets, lamps, pork leg and shoulder, sausages, apples, grapes and different types of cheese until the total amounts to the losses from US tariffs.
    • The EU has announced it will also impose retaliatory measures, but has yet to outline them.
    • Dow Jones Industrial Average finished down 1.0 percent amid investor fears of a trade war.

    Retaliatory measures

    In response, European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker called the news "unacceptable...protectionism, pure and simple," and promised to announce "counterbalancing" measures within hours.

    Mexico was the first country hit by the tariffs to outline its response.

    Canada then announced that it would impose duties on US steel and aluminum after Prime Minister Justin Trudeau called the US rules "totally unacceptable."

    "These tariffs are an affront to the longstanding security partnership between Canada and the United States, and in particular, an affront to the thousands of Canadians who have fought and died alongside their American brothers in arms," Trudeau said, referencing Trump's claims that national security influenced his decision.

    The Canadian tariffs will also be 25 percent for steel and 10 percent for aluminum.

    The European Union said later on Thursday that it would bring its case against the tariffs to the World Trade Organization on Friday, joining India and China in triggering the WTO's dispute settlement procedure over the American trade rules.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  11. #146
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    That was the tit and now for the tat..

    WASHINGTON/PARIS (Reuters) - Canada and Mexico retaliated against the United State’s decision on Thursday to impose tariffs on steel and aluminum imports and the European Union had its own reprisals ready to go, reigniting investor fears of a global trade war....

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1IV2TN
    As a businessman, U.S. President Donald Trump saw strength in his willingness to keep multiple balls in the air and change approach as they fell. In international relations, that unpredictability may be proving a liability.

    In recent days, Trump’s sudden policy reversals on everything from tariffs to nuclear non-proliferation have prompted complaints from allies and rivals alike. Such flexible negotiating tactics -- laid out in Trump’s 1987 book “The Art of the Deal” -- have led them to question America’s reliability as a negotiating and, in some cases, security partner.

    With defense ministers from around the world convening Friday for the IISS Shangri-La Dialogue security conference in Singapore, questions around U.S. reliability are likely to rival familiar concerns about China’s growing military assertiveness.

    “A lot of delegates will be asking the questions they started asking last year about U.S. consistency and its determination to carry on a full defense of the rules-based international order,” said John Chipman, director general of the London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies, which organizes the event at the Shangri-La Hotel in Singapore....

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...kfire-overseas

  12. #147
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Full article: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1IX5T2

    Exclusive: U.S. may soon claim up to $1.7 billion penalty from China's ZTE - sources

    (Reuters) - The Trump administration may soon claim as much as $1.7 billion penalty from ZTE Corp, as it looks to punish and tighten control over the Chinese telecommunications company before allowing it back into business, according to people familiar with the matter.

    The Commerce Department is also seeking unfettered site visits to verify U.S. components are being used as claimed by ZTE, and wants it to post calculations of the U.S. components in its products on a website, the people said.

    China’s No.2 telecommunications equipment maker has been crippled by a ban imposed in April on buying U.S. technology components for seven years for breaking an agreement reached after it was caught illegally shipping goods to Iran and North Korea.

    The negotiations with ZTE come as U.S. Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross heads to Beijing this weekend for trade talks.

    One source said Washington also wants ZTE to replace its board and executive team as soon as 30 days, but a deal still has not been finalized and the sources cautioned that the penalties were fluid and the terms could change.

    Representatives from the Commerce Department and ZTE did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

    American companies provide an estimated 25 percent to 30 percent of components in ZTE’s equipment, which includes smartphones and gear to build telecommunications networks.

    The company’s status has become an important bargaining chip in high-level trade talks between China and Washington amid reports that if the United States eases up on ZTE, China will buy more American agricultural goods.

    U.S. President Donald Trump tweeted last month that he told Commerce officials to find a way for ZTE to get back into business, later mentioning a $1.3 billion fine and changes to its board and top management as a way to penalize the company before allowing it back into business.

    But ZTE’s possible resuscitation has met strong resistance in Congress, where both Democrats and Trump’s fellow Republicans have accused him of bowing to pressure from Beijing to help a company that has been labeled a threat to U.S. national security.

    The company, which suspended major operations in May, desperately needs a deal to get back in business, with estimates it has lost over $3 billion since the April 15 ban on doing business with U.S. suppliers, a source familiar with the matter said last week.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  13. #148
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    The World Trade Organization’s efforts to measure trade by added value [https://www.wto.org/english/res_e/st...profiles_e.htm ] are a useful reminder of the folly of protectionism.

    According to the study, the domestic value China-based textile producers added to the final export price was 73.5% in 2011; computer and electronics producers added just 45%. For products sent to the US, the local value-added was 65.3%; those shipped to Korea (67.7%) and Japan (68.1%) had slightly higher local content.

    Using the 73.5% figure for textiles, that means that the roughly $61 billion worth of such products the US imported from China in 2011 was actually only $45 billion worth of China value, and the 45% of computers and electronics was not $173 billion but less than $78 billion.

    Using the broader 65.3% figure, the reduction rises to nearly $140 billion, and to $1.5 trillion over the past decade.

    So, if we are to look at the value added during the manufacturing process, which has a direct bearing on issues such as employment, we need to subtract more than 25% from the total for east-bound shipments. Contrast that to the 85% of domestic value added to exports from the US to China.
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  14. #149
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    so my original assertion was that Donald was no conservative but a 1950s Southern Democrat.

    i think i've been proven completely correct in this.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  15. #150
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Well done Mr. President

    You kept your campaign promise. Now let's wait for the fireworks to start
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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