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Thread: Justin Trudeau's excellent Indian adventure

  1. #76
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Guest list is vetted by the IB and R&AW. Either the Indian consulate officers in Canada are corrupt or the Canadians were short sighted. OR, could it be a BJP(Ram Madhav) stunt to allow exiled Sikhs to come to India for talks. One article I posted clearly talks about rapprochement. OR, could it be a hatchet job by the agencies to ruin Justin Trudeau's India trip, and make him see that Khalistan might get him votes, but he won't get any favors from India with that appeasement attitude. It was a total disaster.
    Bolded bit and if that gets no where then the underlined part

  2. #77
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Bolded bit and if that gets no where then the underlined part
    So, you agree too?

    I was referring to cataphract's statement that the Liberal Party of Canada was behind this. Trying to understand his POV as he is from Canada, why would the Canadians stage this? What do they gain from this disastrous trip to India?

  3. #78
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    So, you agree too?

    I was referring to cataphract's statement that the Liberal Party of Canada was behind this. Trying to understand his POV as he is from Canada, why would the Canadians stage this? What do they gain from this disastrous trip to India?
    I don't know what the Canadians were staging. I'm saying we gave this guy a visa because he no longer was a problem for us. The Canadians knew this. So no red flags come up if he shows up at a couple of their do's in India on a visa we gave him. Right ?

    How have the Canadians benefited ? i don't know the answer to that. PR wise it looks bad.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 10 Mar 18, at 14:13.

  4. #79
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    I don't know what the Canadians were staging. I'm saying we gave this guy a visa because he no longer was a problem for us. The Canadians knew this. So no red flags come up if he shows up at a couple of their do's in India on a visa we gave him. Right ?
    Correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    How have the Canadians benefited ? i don't know the answer to that. PR wise it looks bad.
    I guess we wait for cataphract to respond. Let's hear his side of the story.

  5. #80
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    I guess we wait for cataphract to respond. Let's hear his side of the story.
    Who was it that first flagged Atwal as a problem ?

    Not us. He was legal.

    Wasn't it someone in the Canadian media. Then everybody goes Oh!

    So Canadian opposition trying to embarrass their PM when he is on a state trip ? The harshest criticism came out of Canada.

    Really amazes me the amount of domestic Canadian politics that got played out here.

    Such an oddball visit because of the diaspora thing
    Last edited by Double Edge; 11 Mar 18, at 03:34.

  6. #81

  7. #82
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    A piece by Jonathan Kay over at FP.

    More here: http://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/22/...n-worst-enemy/

    Teflon Trudeau Is His Own Worst Enemy

    Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s honeymoon with voters was supposed to end on May 18, 2016. In Parliament that day, members of the leftist New Democratic Party (NDP) attempted to obstruct their fellow MPs as they took their assigned places to vote on a time-sensitive motion. In a scene captured on video, Trudeau pushed a Conservative Party opposition member through the crowd to hurry things along, elbowing a female member of the NDP in the process. The Conservative MP Peter Van Loan described it as “physical molestation.” An NDP member called it “assault.” Pundits coined it “Elbowgate” and declared that this would be the scandal that finally put a scratch on Teflon Trudeau’s political career.

    It didn’t. Within a week, polls showed that voters didn’t care about Elbowgate. They also didn’t care much about Trudeau abandoning his campaign promises on electoral reform, revelations about his cash-for-access political fundraising, or his oddly affectionate comments following the death of Fidel Castro. For more than two years as prime minister — an eternity in politics — Trudeau’s government has seemed to defy gravity.

    But now there are signs that it is finally being brought down to earth. New polling data indicate that support for Trudeau’s Liberal Party government is now at just 36 percent — the lowest since the 2015 election and only three points higher than the opposition Conservatives. Amazingly, the controversy that seems to have dented Trudeau’s popularity unfolded more than 7,000 miles away from Ottawa.

    The prime minister’s weeklong family trip to India in February generated not one controversy but two. The first media uproar focused on the Trudeaus’ appearance at public functions in an endless parade of brightly colored traditional Indian outfits, which had some locals wondering whether the whole trip was just an excuse for Bollywood cosplay. “FYI we Indians don’t dress like this every day sir, not even in Bollywood,” one prominent Indian politician tweeted. Back in Canada, the CBC commentator Robyn Urback compared Trudeau to a character in the hit TV show Modern Family, complaining that the prime minister had “danced the bhangra like a bad impression of Phil Dunphy after his first yoga lesson.”

    The second, far more substantive controversy surrounded a dinner at the Canadian high commissioner’s residence in New Delhi. The guest list for that event included Jaspal Atwal, a Sikh extremist who served five years in a Canadian jail for his role in the attempted murder of a visiting Indian cabinet minister, Malkiat Singh Sidhu, in 1986. Although Atwal was disinvited before the dinner took place, the Canadian government’s efforts to shift blame for the incident became a farce. At first, Trudeau’s inner circle pinned the blame on a Liberal MP, Randeep Sarai, who fell on his sword and assumed full responsibility. Then the prime minister’s national security advisor suggested to reporters, with no apparent evidence, that Atwal had been a pawn in a scheme by elements within the Indian government to embarrass Trudeau. That story understandably enraged the Indian government, convinced no one in Canada, and only focused further attention on the fact that Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi snubbed Trudeau until a last-minute, face-saving hug for the cameras.

    Trudeau’s Indian misadventure hurt him in a way that Elbowgate didn’t because it validated two of the underlying suspicions that Canadians have always had about the prime minister and his party. The first suspicion is that Trudeau is a snowboarding party boy who was “just not ready” for the burdens of leadership, as a stinging campaign ad once declared.

    Trudeau originally helped put this suspicion to rest by running a flawless election campaign in 2015. He then spent more than two years leading the country in a sensible, sober manner while much of the rest of the world succumbed to populism. Trudeau has gotten the big issues right: fighting income inequality with progressive taxation, keeping the welfare state well-funded, addressing infrastructure needs, and, most importantly, working carefully to defuse U.S. President Donald Trump’s protectionist trade bomb. At international gatherings, Trudeau joined German Chancellor Angela Merkel (and then French President Emmanuel Macron) as a principled G-7 voice for globalization. In return, much of the world press has fawned over Trudeau, both for his policy and for his youthful style, a fact that hasn’t gone unnoticed in Canada.
    In the absence of a serious political challenge from the left or right, Canada’s prime minister is suffering from self-inflicted damage.

  8. #83
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    ^^^

    the prime minister’s national security advisor suggested to reporters, with no apparent evidence, that Atwal had been a pawn in a scheme by elements within the Indian government to embarrass Trudeau. That story understandably enraged the Indian government, convinced no one in Canada, and only focused further attention on the fact that Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi snubbed Trudeau until a last-minute, face-saving hug for the cameras.
    So now we know who floated that canard. He's deflecting to protect his PM from the opposition. We would never embarass a visiting head of state in such a manner

    The odd thing is the Canadians care a great deal more abut Atwal than the country whose minister Atwal shot. We're over it long time ago.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 29 Mar 18, at 05:23.

  9. #84
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    Hey, you deal with your own embarrassements and let us sulk in ours though I personally am basking in I told you so.

  10. #85
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    What embarrassment ? its just a storm in a teacup meaning this episode will be forgotten in time. Teflon Trudeau will survive

    I saw a well meaning guy get taken down by his own people on a trip abroad. This is new to me. Once you understand this things are more clear. Loads of smoke, where's the fire ?

    I don't care what opposition has to say they will always trash the ruling party for anything. And by the looks of it they're desperate if it has to go this far. Same shit happening here too where they are even more desperate.

    For the first two years he was sober and sensible, now he's a snowboarding party boy not ready for leadership.

    Hah yeah right
    Last edited by Double Edge; 29 Mar 18, at 13:28.

  11. #86
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    If you think Trudeau is bad what you think the Americans are undergoing right now. See where i'm going with this?

    The part nobody wants to talk about is these people were elected into office in free & fair elections. If they were such a national embarrassment they'd have never got this far. Why did they. Just see who the Italians put in office recently.



    No matter what Kitty says, he's your PM and i have to deal with it
    Last edited by Double Edge; 29 Mar 18, at 15:27.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    For the first two years he was sober and sensible, now he's a snowboarding party boy not ready for leadership.

    Hah yeah right
    Don't know where you got that impression. We've gone back to deficit spending. Gender expression rights, including being illegal to call a transgender person a he/she but rather zhe (actual law which I have absolutely zero intentions of obeying, true facts trump law), trumps economic policies, F-35/Superhornet fiasco, all talk and no walk about UN peacekeeping (just 250 personnel when we had a brigade in Yugoslavia).

    This government is forcing social issues down Canadian throats.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    No matter what Kitty says, he's your PM and i have to deal with it
    No shit, Sherlock! :-)

    As I said before, Canadians were bored of the Conservatives. The Conservatives platorm was that they're guarranteeing 3% growth. This generation of voting youth never experienced being broke with no job and wanted excitement. Trudeau gave it to them, inclduing being broke and no jobs.

  14. #89
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Don't know where you got that impression.
    post #82 Irondukes FP article, how perceptions changed after two years

    We've gone back to deficit spending. Gender expression rights, including being illegal to call a transgender person a he/she but rather zhe (actual law which I have absolutely zero intentions of obeying, true facts trump law), trumps economic policies, F-35/Superhornet fiasco, all talk and no walk about UN peacekeeping (just 250 personnel when we had a brigade in Yugoslavia).

    This government is forcing social issues down Canadian throats.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-...peech-showdown

    Ze & Zir, wow!

    You know my views on this topic, its tyranny
    Last edited by Double Edge; 29 Mar 18, at 19:52.

  15. #90
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    I'm going to channel my inner pedant here and correct Mr. Trudeau on the matter of the English language.

    In Old English, the word man was a gender neutral term. Meant person or people.

    Wyfman was the word for woman. Since morphed into woman and wyf = wife, woman in OE.

    Werman was the word for a man. Wer = man. Same etymology as werewolf, werebear, and whatnot.

    So, he should take a Xanax and brush up on his linguistics, and lay off the peoplekind BS. The terms man and mankind are still gender neutral in the sense he's taking issue with. Anybody who thinks these terms are sexist are mostly just confused and/or have a poor understanding of the English language.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 30 Mar 18, at 15:09.

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