Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 99

Thread: Justin Trudeau's excellent Indian adventure

  1. #31
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Sep 10
    Location
    Bangalore
    Posts
    7,211
    There were dangers we could go the Bangladesh way. Khalistan is declared any time. Pakistan recognises it. Crosses the border. The Punjab police desserts. Hindus from Punjab rush towards Haryana. The Sikhs from there rush towards Punjab. What does the Indian army do ?

    Do they stop the Pakistani influx into our territory
    Do they prevent the establishment of Khalistan
    Do they disarm the Punjab police
    Do they control riots as there was no police in Punjab at that stage
    Pretty gripping isn't it, the operation is mounted to prevent a direct threat to the sovereignty of the state.

    Interview with Gen KS Brar from 2012 who led operation Bluestar, this talk some time after he survived an attempt on his life during a visit in London

    https://www.ndtv.com/video/shows/wal...ks-brar-249662

  2. #32
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Sep 10
    Location
    Bangalore
    Posts
    7,211
    Outlook was on the case before Trudeau even arrived


  3. #33
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Sep 10
    Location
    Bangalore
    Posts
    7,211
    Panth And A Foreign Hand | Outlook | Feb 12 2018

    A new real threat of Khalistani terror, fuelled and funded by foreign gurudwaras patronised by liberal white politicians, has revived memories of a blood-drenched era of Punjab’s history

    USHINOR MAJUMDAR

    For those who believe history moves in a straight line, and what’s past is past, some signs can set you thinking. Like you’re being awakened to a bad dream—a strangely familiar one—and bits and pieces of memory flash by, brought back to life. Words that recall a time of great tumult—Khalistan, Sikh radicals, Bluestar, 1984 pogrom—are abuzz again. If your attention has been focused elsewhere, little pieces of news are recalling an epoch filled with thousands of unknown victims, marking out new stirrings full of old forebodings.

    ‘The foreign hand’…rings a bell? It was one of the oft-heard phrases of the 1970s—both bogey and shadowy reality. Is it making a comeback of sorts, in a new avatar? Why are overseas gurudwaras banning Indian authorities—not just politicians, even diplomatic functionaries? Is there a new mistrust on all sides? What exactly is going on in Canada and the UK, two countries that host the Sikh community’s busiest hubs outside India?

    The ban came, like a fort’s gates clanging shut, in December 2017, when the management committees of 14 gurudwaras in Canada issued a terse statement: “Pursuant to the Trespass to Property Act (1990), the management of these gurudwaras reserves the right to bar entry to officials of the Indian government, including but not limited to Indian elected officials, Indian consular officials and members of organisations who seek to undermine the Sikh nation and Sikh institutions.” The word ‘nation’, of course, floats ambivalently between the old sense of community and the more modern meaning.

    Soon, similar declarations followed in the UK—forming a rather unprecedented chain of events. Apparently, these firmans formalise a soft ban that was already in place. Hardliners mince no words, saying it’s meant to prevent Indian mission officials from “running pro-India and anti-Khalistan propagaNDA”. That speaks of a much higher level of ideological hardening—and counter-engagement—than may have been suspected by common Indians. Even so, a ban is more of a statement, since no one could have addressed a gathering at gurudwaras without permission from the management anyway. And it’s a delicate line: despite the ban, an Indian official in the UK paid a personal visit to a gurudwara, which has not been barred.

    What set off this new drawing of borders, if you like? One immediate provocation was the November arrest, in Punjab, of Glasgow-based Sikh activist Jagtar Singh Johal (Jaggi), who had come down for his wedding in October. Police suspect him of involvement with a series of political murders over the past two years, including of RSS/right-wing figures, but talk of Jaggi being implicated in a false case and custodial torture soon spread among the diaspora. Some UK gurudwaras protested the arrest: as British media kept up a sharp focus, even premier Theresa May had to mention it.

    The first physical ban was in Melbourne where a Sikh stopped an Indian mission official from entering a gurudwara to protest Jaggi’s arrest. Then came the ban in Canada, followed by a similar ban by 96 gurudwaras in the US, which also extended it to members of the Shiv Sena and the RSS. The ‘Free Jaggi Now’ campaign is truly global.

    Not all these voices are radical or secessionist—many Sikh rights groups openly disavow extremism—but it’s part of the spectrum, and a growing part. What lies behind this resurgence of Khalistani politics? Several factors. At one level, deep anger over the thwarted justice for the 1984 pogrom blends with the radical charter that predated it. Canadian politics, where migrant Sikhs are now major players, offers a hospitable space to cultivate this hard dissent towards India. If one end of it articulates genuine human rights issues, at the other there’s a whole ecology built around Khalistani politics and activism; indeed, an economy too. The UK differs perhaps only in the concentrated pitch of voices. Into this mire come accusations that Indian officials are into spying and manipulation of events in gurudwaras.

    This offshore radicalism is also organically linked, and bleeds right back, to the narrative unfolding in Punjab. An extreme, religion-tinged language is never too far away from mainstream politics in the state—and this sector of opinion links back to Canada and the UK. Since the mid-1990s, when militancy faded out here, the public sentiment backing it also largely petered out. Strands simmered in the fundamentalist corners of panthic politics, occasionally manifesting itself—such as in incidents targeting the many Dalit religious and cultist movements. The recent killings too fall into these shadow zones. Some non-violent activist groups such as the Dal Khalsa have officially aligned with Kashmiri separatists in common demands for a referendum on self-determination.

    In India, news of the ban was received with dismay. It’s being read as coming out of a view that equates Indian officials with Hindutva footsoldiers: an unfortunate collapsing of categories because the Indian State, while it has security concerns that are real and as valid as any other country’s, flows from a secular constitutional code. But its rejection is fairly pointed: the Canadian ban was declared on a day when gurudwaras were observing the death anniversary of Indira Gandhi’s assassins. Though, to be sure, some other gurudwaras have started to question the ban, saying places of worship are not meant for politics.

    Yet, Khalistani separatism is no covert creed: its activists operate both underground and “overground”. Jaggi’s website neverforget84.com, an online database, is a regular haunt for sympathisers. It has no direct espousal of violence—only history, protest songs/poetry, writing on Sikh issues—but it’s coloured by Khalistani themes and a section describes slain militants as “Khalistan shaheeds” (martyrs). The roster features fallen members of the Babbar Khalsa International (BKI), Bhindranwale Tiger Force of Khalistan, Khalistan Commando Force (KCF), Khalistan Liberation Force (KLF), Sikh Students Federation and ISYF, Khalistan Liberation Army and so on—many of them proscribed terrorist organisations.

    Such online exhortations for solidarity also help create sentiment in favour of families of the slain extremists and those in jail, serving sentences or awaiting trial. Hardliners in gurudwaras routinely pass around donation boxes to raise money for their “welfare”. That’s the benign end; the keener edge moves below the radar. Its GPS map has to be inferred from piecemeal lines.

    Sources in the police claim Jaggi was linked to Gursharanbir Singh, an alleged BKI member, and the two had met in France in 2014 shortly after the arrest of KLF chief Harminder Singh ‘Mintoo’ in Delhi. Gursharanbir regarded Mintoo’s arrest as a loss and decided to become more active in India. He is believed to have planned many of the recent attacks. Jaggi’s family and lawyers vehemently deny he had any direct or indirect links to terror activities.

    Anyway, hardliners soon decided Jaggi’s arrest was a result of Indians spying on Khalistani sympathisers at offshore gurudwaras. Neutral observers believe RAW spooks do keep a watch on activities in these zones because of the extremist presence, but linking that to Jaggi’s arrest may be flawed reasoning. Punjab Police seems to have relied on traditional policing, ploughing its trail through arrests and interrogations. The police do not, as yet, think Jaggi was a “mastermind”, but are keenly following the spoor. A vital element that links the stories, with usual ingredients like handlers in Pakistan, is also money.

    Follow the Money

    The old terrorism was fuelled differently—an ex-RAW man calls it a “simpler” matter of Afghan drug money funding the guns, logistics and livelihoods. Now, police tracking the flow of funds into Punjab’s radical circles trace it back to small donations in gurudwaras abroad, raised during regular cultural events: martial arts displays, kabaddi, wrestling, turban-tying competitions et al.

    “Radicals have taken over most gurudwaras in Canada, the US and the UK, and organise events where the themes of Khalistan and persecution of Sikhs in 1984 are a running refrain,” says a senior police officer. The “cultural glorification of slain terrorists as martyrs in films and songs” is routine, he says.

    The funds thus raised, he adds, go into supporting the families of those arrested in Punjab for terror activities—covering their education needs, livelihood and legal costs. “This is indirect support for terror. We have had some bank accounts seized and the NIA has filed an FIR against the Sikh Organisation for Prisoner’s Welfare (SOPW),” says the officer.

    The taint hardly touches all Sikh support organisations: some are purely humanitarian, and play straight. The officer cites the globally active Khalsa Aid. Its separate wing for Punjab (Focus Punjab) did not kick off because it eliminated middlemen who made a cut, the cop says. “Khalsa Aid provides material help, not cash. It directly engages contractors to build/renovate houses, pay school fees…. Since it does not give cash doles that enable a payout to brokers, they didn’t find much popularity here,” he adds.

    The more targeted donations flow in through charities, often evading mandatory FCRA clearances by using direct bank transfers. The UK-based Sikh Relief, for instance, runs a programme called the SOPW, which is currently under an NIA probe. Parminder Singh Amloh, who runs SOPW’s Punjab wing, has been summoned thrice to the NIA HQ in Delhi. A former stuntman, he was arrested in 2008 under the Arms Act for carrying bullets meant for Gurmeet Ram Rahim—he spent four years in jail.

    In 2013, a former prison inmate introduced Parminder to UK citizen Balbir Singh Bains, who launched the UK-based Sikh Relief and SOPW. They have never met each other, Parminder discloses to Outlook. Both Parminder and Bains choose the beneficiaries.

    Including Jaggi? “We help those who approach us and verify who really needs help,” says Parminder. “The NIA is yet to close the FIR. It should go and talk to Bains in the UK to clear things up.”

    At the bare minimum, SOPW Punjab is caught in a regulatory tangle. “We applied for registration and were told categorically there were ‘instructions from upstairs’ that it would not be permitted. There’s no option but to approach the High Court,” says Parminder. And he has a clean line to offer. During his time in jail, he claims, drug-runners offered him work as a mule or peddler, but he declined.

    Canadian Politics and Separatism

    The Sikh rise in Canadian politics has been fairly visible over the years. It’s a rainbow-hued presence: Ujjal Dosanjh, as outspokenly moderate as they come, rose to be a provincial premier. But now, more striking than the four faces in Justin Trudeau’s cabinet, is the newly ascendant Jagmeet Singh of the opposition New Democratic Party (NDP). The first non-white figure to head a federal party, Jagmeet is a man of sharp politics: he was the one who proposed the motion to declare 1984 a “genocide”. But not just that.

    The motion is yet to succeed federally; its big moment came in April 2017 when the Ontario legislature adopted it. But clouding the moment was its celebration at a gurudwara where photos of Talwinder Singh Parmar, mastermind of the 1985 Kanishka bombing, adorned the walls as a “martyr”. If there was any doubt, Jagmeet has maintained a studied silence whenever asked to condemn Parmar. Context: the NDP lost 59 seats in the 2015 federal elections and fell to third place nationally. The Sikh population, less than two per cent of Canada’s total but with significant concentrations across constituencies, is a real factor.

    Canada has not played straight with its stand on terror, particularly in the context of the Kanishka case (see V. Balachandran’s column). It has made some token gestures like proscribing some Khalistani terror organisations. (ISYF chief Lakhbir Singh Rode, for one, had to shift from Canada to Lahore, where he runs a meat business.) This forms a delicate, controversial background ahead of Trudeau’s visit to India this month, which will include a stop at the Harmandir Sahib in Amritsar.

    Punjab CM Amarinder Singh, often the target of ire at ‘cultural’ events in Canada’s gurudwaras, takes a no-nonsense stand (see interview) against both Sikh radicals and politicians soft to them. He has not minced words in reproaching Canadian ministers publicly—last year, he even called Canada’s defence minister, Harjit Singh Sajjan, a Khalistani sympathiser and announced on TV that he would avoid Sajjan on his India visit.

    Sajjan, for his part, said Canada would help with crackdowns on any terror outfit based on real intelligence inputs and assist in evidence-based probes. That statement is set to be tested. Punjab Police have found links between two terror modules busted in 2017 and four Sikhs currently in Canada—Gurjit Singh Cheema, Sulinder Singh, Gurjinder Singh in Ontario and Gurpreet Singh in Vancouver—all wanted in connection with a May 2017 FIR lodged in Amritsar.

    Article 25 Revisited

    In a way, Canada only shows a mirror to Punjab’s own old-new politics, where mainstream patronage to radicalism waxes and wanes with the season. In January, ex-deputy CM Sukhbir Badal reprised the demand for amending Article 25—the one that says any “reference to Hindus shall be construed as including” a reference to Sikhs. In 1984, his father Parkash Singh Badal had first burned a copy of the document. Why now, after 34 years? Last year’s assembly poll, of course. The Akalis were ejected from power and clipped to 15 seats in a 117-strong house. Why not when Badal Sr was CM three times, a full 15 years? No answer. Even now, Sukhbir’s wife, Harsimrat Kaur, is a Union minister, sworn to protect the Constitution.

    If that’s the mainstream, harder positions can be inferred. This is a zone where local and global blends seamlessly. There is, for instance, the Referendum 2020 demand, now backed by the Dal Khalsa, for the political and religious “self-determination of Sikhs”. (The year 2020 marks the centenary of the historic referendum of 1920, when Sikhs voted to eject Brahmin priests who controlled the Nankana Sahib gurudwara.) The referendum was first mooted in 2014 by the secessionist Sikhs for Justice (SFJ). The NY-headquartered advocacy group had presented its petition to the then Canadian PM Stephen Harper, asking him to share it with his Indian counterpart, Narendra Modi, during his 2015 Canada visit. As the 2020 campaign picks up heat, five SFJ men (including its legal advisor from NY, Gurpatwant Singh Pannun) have been charged in Punjab for sedition.

    Earlier, the SFJ has filed a complaint in Canada against Modi for his alleged role in the 2002 Gujarat riots. It also filed a suit in the US to proscribe the RSS for its alleged bid to convert India into a homogenous Hindu country, based on the ‘ghar wapasi’ campaign. Hindutva is seen with hostility by Sikh groups as an ideology partial to treating Sikhism as a sect of Hinduism.

    Bullets Flying

    It didn’t take long for ideological arguments to start flowing from the muzzle of the gun. The first incidents were in Ludhiana—a firing at an RSS shakha in January 2016, and an attempt to gun down Shiva Sena leader Amit Arora. Then came the killings: of Durga Das Gupta (Shiv Sena) in Khanna, Brigadier (retd) Jagdish Gagneja (state vice-president, RSS), Amit Sharma (preacher, Hindu Takht), Satpal Kumar and Ramesh Kumar (Dera Sacha Sauda followers), Sultan Masih (Christian pastor) and Ravinder Gosain (RSS functionary). In all, there were eight incidents in 22 months.

    The CBI is probing Gagneja’s murder; the other seven cases have been handed over to the NIA. Punjab Police, says a source, would have found it tough to deal with authorities in other countries. Especially in the case of KLF operational head Harmeet Singh ‘PhD’, believed to be the handler of the two arrested suspects, Ramandeep and Hardeep ‘Shera’. PhD was a research scholar in Guru Nanak Dev University in 2008 when he skipped across the border to Lahore after getting mired in a drugs and arms smuggling racket in Amritsar.

    Police zeroed in on Ramandeep after 40-odd arrests, and thence to the mysterious Shera: a muscular, six-foot-tall, Italian-speaking youth, who had a lion tattooed across his chest. For the killings, Ramandeep rode a mobike, while Shera rode pillion and shot at the targets. Yet the two were apparently never in direct contact. Shera would be merely picked up or dropped off at locations specified by PhD, via encrypted smartphone apps like Whatsapp, Signal and Telegram. Since Ramandeep had no details on Shera, it took a laborious manhunt (including across various gyms) before the shooter was nabbed on November 10, 2017.

    It’s into this scenario that Jaggi Johal had walked in. “In April 2017, Jaggi was here to get engaged, but we weren’t aware of his activities,” says Dinkar Gupta, D-G (Intelligence), Punjab Police. “Information about his role in funding the procurement of weapons from J&K for terror activities in Punjab had been confirmed by Taljit Singh ‘Jimmy’ in October-November 2017.” Arrested after being deported from Coventry, Jimmy told the police Jaggi had allegedly passed on 1,000 pounds for the guns. That led to Jaggi’s arrest in late October, just days after his wedding, while he was out shopping with his wife in a mall. His family and lawyer deny such links and say he’s being targeted only because of his advocacy for Sikh rights.

    The police put in some hard yards on the probe—first mistakenly treating it as pure crimes. But then they worked outwards—through the shadowy area of operational overlap between criminal gangs and radical groups—till they hit upon what they say are disturbing signs for Punjab. They speak of fresh recruits lying low in sleeper cells and eight new modules busted with the 45 arrests.

    Meanwhile, according to Amritsar-based social scientist Harish Puri, “an SFJ video asking gangsters in Punjab to support separatism has gone viral”.

    The resurgence of extremist violence has caught many by surprise. Outright Sikh radical politics had long been in hibernation in Punjab, showing up only occasionally, say in attacks on religious leaders around a decade ago or the 2009 killing of Rulde Singh, then chief of Rashtriya Sikh Sangat, the Sikh wing of the RSS. Militancy had fizzled out by the mid-1990s though a powerful sentiment lingered in the minds of Sikhs, harking back to the army’s storming of the Golden Temple and the massacre of thousands in 1984.

    Panthic orthodoxy, which has a Jat Sikh core to it, was also at loggerheads with many cults that emerged from the subaltern castes. Baba Bhaniarewala, for example, created a separate cult and even attracted politicians looking for Dalit votes in the early 2000s. His cult published an alternative text of the Sikhs’ holy book, with photos of him in Guru Gobind Singh’s attire. Angry reactions from all sections of Khalsa Sikhs—clergy, laity, an Akali regime—followed. Hardliner outfits carried out unsuccessful assassination attempts on the godman.

    After 2007, the pattern repeated with Gurmeet Ram Rahim, and amid the sectarian heat, radical groups such as the KCF and the Khalistan Zindabad Force (KZF) made their presence felt with assassination attempts. The 2009 attack in Vienna by the KZF on the Ravidassia saints, Ramanand Dass and Niranjan Dass, which led to the death of the former, also eventually saw the Ravidassia order declaring themselves separate from the Sikhs.

    With an aggressive Hindutva on one flank and rebellious ranks among its subaltern castes, the Sikhs have reasons to be anxious. Then there’s the history—the original issues, Blue Star, and yes, the memory of a pogrom. The Indian State has done little to restore the community’s faith in the justice delivery system. The maple syrup is exacerbating the wounds.

  4. #34
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    12 Jul 13
    Location
    Land of the One Horned Rhino
    Posts
    2,783
    Japan awaits Trudeau!

    Name:  JT.jpeg
Views: 207
Size:  33.1 KB

  5. #35
    Senior Contributor anil's Avatar
    Join Date
    20 Sep 12
    Location
    Mumbai
    Posts
    777
    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    For the benefit of all why don't you just come out and tell us ?

    When was that photo taken, any ideas
    2014

    He tried to be on the good side of the khalistani crowd but they dispatched him.

    The elite Sikh class may not approve of Khalistan but the average lower and middle class Sikhs actually support the idea, sometimes just simply as a "form of protest".

    The state of Punjab is not doing well. It currently ranks in the bottom ten.

    Rank / State / Tax Revenues (INR Billions)

    01 Maharashtra 4518
    02 Andhra Pradesh and Telangana 3234
    03 Tamilnadu 3149
    04 Karnataka 2831
    05 Delhi 2526
    06 Gujarat 1796
    07 Uttar Pradesh 1699
    08 Rajasthan 1507
    09 Kerala 1382
    10 Haryana 1363
    11 Madhya Pradesh 1272
    12 West Bengal 1180
    13 Chhattisgarh 724
    14 Jharkhand 707
    15 Odisha 662
    16 Bihar 370
    17 Jammu and Kashmir 346
    18 Assam 322
    19 Uttarakhand 322
    20 Himachal Pradesh 274
    21 Goa 233
    22 Tripura 47.25
    23 Meghalaya 45.92
    24 Arunachal Pradesh 27.11
    25 Punjab 269.85
    26 Nagaland 17.76
    27 Mizoram 15.47
    28 Sikkim 15.68

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...y_tax_revenues

    It may get worst
    Last edited by anil; 25 Feb 18, at 13:20.

  6. #36
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Sep 10
    Location
    Bangalore
    Posts
    7,211
    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Japan awaits Trudeau!

    Name:  JT.jpeg
Views: 207
Size:  33.1 KB
    Expect it will go smoother than India or China

    With no formal trade talks, Trudeau leaves international trade minister in Beijing | CBC | Dec 05 2017

    The sticking points appear to be Canada's insistence that labour and gender rights be part of any deal.
    Trudeau Leaves China Empty-Handed | Bloomberg | Dec 08 2017

    Canada wants to fight populism by pushing progressive policies

    But PM’s ‘one-size-fits-all’ approach fell flat in Beijing
    Trudeau’s visit reveals an impasse globally between some of the biggest economies. The U.S. is championing protectionism, Japan is struggling to get its flagship deal past Canada, China is balking at “progressive” demands and Theresa May is occupied by Brexit. Canada had been something of a bridge -- pursuing the TPP and completing an EU trade deal all while trying to talk Trump off the ledge to save Nafta -- and now is doubling down on a new brand of trade that, so far, few others are buying.
    China in December

    India in Feb

    Japan next month

    He's had a busy quarter

  7. #37
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Sep 10
    Location
    Bangalore
    Posts
    7,211
    Quote Originally Posted by anil View Post
    2014

    He tried to be on the good side of the khalistani crowd but they dispatched him.

    The elite Sikh class may not approve of Khalistan but the average lower and middle class Sikhs actually support the idea, sometimes just simply as a "form of protest".
    Fine, as long as they keep it peaceful

    2020 is when Canada goes to the polls next i suppose. If that 'New Democrat' party wins, with this Jagmeet guy then we're going to be in for a rocky time


    The state of Punjab is not doing well. It currently ranks in the bottom ten.

    Rank / State / Tax Revenues (INR Billions)

    01 Maharashtra 4518
    02 Andhra Pradesh and Telangana 3234
    03 Tamilnadu 3149
    04 Karnataka 2831
    05 Delhi 2526
    06 Gujarat 1796
    07 Uttar Pradesh 1699
    08 Rajasthan 1507
    09 Kerala 1382
    10 Haryana 1363
    11 Madhya Pradesh 1272
    12 West Bengal 1180
    13 Chhattisgarh 724
    14 Jharkhand 707
    15 Odisha 662
    16 Bihar 370
    17 Jammu and Kashmir 346
    18 Assam 322
    19 Uttarakhand 322
    20 Himachal Pradesh 274
    21 Goa 233
    22 Tripura 47.25
    23 Meghalaya 45.92
    24 Arunachal Pradesh 27.11
    25 Punjab 269.85
    26 Nagaland 17.76
    27 Mizoram 15.47
    28 Sikkim 15.68

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...y_tax_revenues

    It may get worst
    It means there are unemployed and easy to manipulate from abroad
    Last edited by Double Edge; 25 Feb 18, at 14:13.

  8. #38
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Sep 10
    Location
    Bangalore
    Posts
    7,211
    Who says Trudeau didn't get a hug



    Wife shaking hands



    We do not 'faire la bise' in India just yet





    At Rashtrapati Bhavan

  9. #39
    Senior Contributor anil's Avatar
    Join Date
    20 Sep 12
    Location
    Mumbai
    Posts
    777
    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    It means there are unemployed and easy to manipulate from abroad
    The economy is not exactly the issue. It is a byproduct.
    They have the same disease as their neighbour. Let's call it "culture".
    Just like their neighbours, if they can't get what they want, they're willing to put it all to flames
    Last edited by anil; 25 Feb 18, at 15:32.

  10. #40
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Sep 10
    Location
    Bangalore
    Posts
    7,211
    Quote Originally Posted by anil View Post
    The economy is not exactly the issue. It is a byproduct.
    They have the same disease as their neighbour. Let's call it "culture".
    Just like their neighbours, if they can't get what they want, they're willing to put it all to flames
    I see some similarities at the separatist level but Punjab isn't as bad. That means things can improve faster. It wasn't like this in the past and i'm wondering when the downfall began. Was it downhill only from the 80s or did it begin after.

    And by neighbour I take it you mean Kashmir & Pakistan

    What i would like to see is the Sikh diaspora helping their native state instead of misleading youth. These people are immensely successful and can contribute a great deal. There is a reason you never see Sikhs begging on the streets
    Last edited by Double Edge; 25 Feb 18, at 19:16.

  11. #41
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    12 Jul 13
    Location
    Land of the One Horned Rhino
    Posts
    2,783
    First of all, Khalistan is a dead issue. Whatever antics, whoever tries, wherever they might be, will have no significant impact on the territorial integrity of India. Now, how is the money flowing into India from the Gurudwaras abroad, unchecked? India needs to send a note to diplomats abroad to take this issue up with personnel of respective countries, that they should investigate, and let the law take its course. Sternly.

    If we look at the drug problem in Punjab (the state is rotting with drug abuse), there is a direct link with Pakistan. India needs to focus on Punjab first. Investigate, arrest and jail the collaborators of this menace. Help the victims recover. Subsequently focus on the hawala links of the drug money and cut it off. Nothing can survive in vacuum. Authorities need to turn the tap off of funds. And expose Paks role in drug trade/ currency counterfeiting on the global stage. Wouldn't be any hard an issue, since they already are in the greylist of #FATF.

  12. #42
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    12 Jul 13
    Location
    Land of the One Horned Rhino
    Posts
    2,783
    Did Canada’s obstruction of meet between radical Sikh groups and Ram Madhav in 2016 sour ties with India?
    Failed November 2016 talks between radical Sikh groups and BJP leader Ram Madhav may not have been the only trigger. But it was among several incidents, key interlocutors involved in negotiations said, which contributed to the trust deficit between India and Canada.

    Did the obstruction by Canadian authorities of a crucial meeting between radical Sikh groups and an interlocutor and senior BJP leader Ram Madhav in 2016 contribute to the frosty reception accorded to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau during his visit to India?

    People familiar with the matter believe it may have been one event, and a very significant one, in a long list of incidents that have affected relations between the two countries.

    In November 2016, Madhav travelled to Canada for a meeting with Sikh groups that had been arranged by UK-based Jasdev Singh Rai of the Sikh Human Rights Group. The plan was for Rai to travel from the UK to join Madhav in Toronto as the Sikh representatives were unwilling to hold talks in Rai’s absence.

    Rai, a British citizen who had travelled to Canada at least 25 times and had kept the Canadian Security Intelligence Service in the loop about his contacts with the Sikh groups, put in a request for an Electronic Travel Authorisation (ETA) to Canada on November 17, 2016, thinking it would be a mere formality.

    However, the ETA clearance – usually done within 24 hours – never came and Rai was unable to join Madhav in Canada, two people familiar with the developments said.

    Madhav, who had earlier participated in similar talks with UK-based Sikh groups (also organised by Rai) and had plans to discuss the terms of a dialogue with Canada-based Sikh groups, was angered after he was left cooling his heels in Toronto, one of the two added on condition of anonymity.

    In Rai’s absence, the key Sikh groups refused to join the talks and Madhav could only meet two representatives, Ranjit Singh and Parminder Singh, before he left Canada for the US after about 24 hours, this person added.

    The second person familiar with the matter, who asked not to be identified, confirmed this turn of events.

    Rai, currently in Geneva for meetings at the UN, on Wednesday accused the Canadian government of “sabotaging” the Indian government’s efforts to engage Sikh separatists in a dialogue. He said Canadian authorities had formally told him about his ETA being denied on “security grounds” only on January 27, 2017 – more than two months after he had applied for it.

    “Trudeau should stop pretending that he is defending freedom of expression of Khalistanis and come clean that his government has obstructed the peace dialogue process between the Modi Government and Sikh separatists,” Rai said.

    The second person familiar with the matter said Indian authorities had learnt that Rai had been denied a visa after pro-Khalistan groups lobbied Canada’s defence minister Harjit Sajjan, a key member of Trudeau’s cabinet. Sajjan is understood to have played a part in blocking the visa, and India was not happy.

    Both people maintained that Trudeau may not have been aware of all the details of the matter as he had been “misled” on the activities of the Sikh radical groups by Indian-origin members of his cabinet, particularly Sajjan and innovation, science and economic development minister Navdeep Bains, both Sikhs.

    The Canadian prime minister’s office didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.

    “Keeping the Khalistan issue alive in Canada helps some Indian-origin ministers get votes and this is crucial because Canada is set to go to the polls in 2019. Also, keeping this issue alive makes it appear to the constituents that these politicians are doing something on the matter,” said the first person.

    Besides the scuppering of the planned talks with the Sikh groups, the case of Jagtar Singh alias Jaggi Johal has created tensions between Indian and Canadian security agencies. Johal, a British national who was arrested in Jalandhar in Punjab on November 4, has been linked to the targeted killing of eight people, including Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and Shiv Sena members, over the past two years.

    Indian security agencies believe radical Sikh groups in Vancouver and Toronto were among the main financiers of Johal. However, other people familiar with the matter said Indian security agencies had received virtually no cooperation from their Canadian counterparts in investigating the sources of funding.

    India raised the issue of stopping the funding from the Sikh groups during several recent meetings with Canada’s top security officials and agencies but is yet to see any action being taken on the ground, a third person said.

    India’s efforts to reach out to Sikh separatists began before Prime Minister Modi’s visit to the UK in 2015, when the political dispensation in New Delhi decided it was important to “neutralise Khalistani propaganda”.

    One way to do this was to reach out to UK-based Sikh groups directly and the BJP’s influential general secretary Madhav went to meet community leaders.

    Given his role in organising community events during Modi’s visits to foreign capitals and his close interest in foreign policy and security affairs, Madhav was seen as a natural pick. Rai played a key role in facilitating the meetings in the UK. The effort paid dividends; some 30 Sikh representatives briefly met Modi and others later held talks with home minister Rajnath Singh. New Delhi also removed many leaders from a “blacklist” that prevented several overseas Sikhs, once active in the International Sikh Youth Federation (ISYF) and the Khalistan movement, from visiting the country.

    Following this success, it was decided that a similar effort should be made to reach out to Sikh groups in Canada. Rai went to Canada in March-April 2016 and managed to persuade leaders of the main Khalistani groups of the benefit of a dialogue, the first and the second person said.

    The outreach happened with the knowledge and sanction of the Indian government but the denial of a visa to Rai stalled the process, they added.

    The failed November 2016 talks may not have been the only trigger. But it was among several incidents, key interlocutors involved in negotiations said, which contributed to the trust deficit between the two governments.

    Much has already been made of the cold welcome accorded to Trudeau when he arrived in India on February 17 for an eight day visit, only half-a-day of which has been set aside for official engagements, including a meeting with Modi.

    Commentators in India and Canada have noted that Modi did not personally receive Trudeau at the airport, an honour he reserves for leaders of such statute, or posted a welcome tweet. Other aspects of Trudeau’s visit so far too have been very low key.

  13. #43
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    12 Jul 13
    Location
    Land of the One Horned Rhino
    Posts
    2,783
    Why Justin Trudeau’s India tour turned out to be a diplomatic disaster

    Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has built a reputation as an ardent defender of progressive values, a global leader who is open, tolerant, liberal and colourful — well, at least his socks are colourful.

    Trudeau is a self-styled feminist who takes political correctness to new heights, as was the case when he recently interrupted a young woman and instructed her to use the term “peoplekind” rather than mankind.

    In Canada, many have grown sceptical of the prime minister’s antics. His popularity is on the decline at home: he just returned from a cross-Canada speaking tour that went anything but well. While explaining why his government was fighting a veterans’ group over pension payments, Trudeau told a wounded war hero that Canadian veterans were asking for more money than his government was willing to give. This left a sting given that Trudeau’s government awarded convicted Al-Qaeda terrorist Omar Khadr $10.5 million without going to court.

    Next, Trudeau was asked why his government was welcoming members of IS back into Canada. Trudeau’s tone-deaf response was to equate IS terrorists with other waves of immigration to Canada, including Europeans who fled Nazi Germany during World War II. Canadians weren’t pleased. And scepticism towards Trudeau’s naive arrogance continues to mount.

    Trudeau is treated differently, however, while travelling on the world stage. He’s enjoyed favourable media coverage and his long tour of India was supposed to be a fresh opportunity to capitalise on his international popularity. But, as we all know, Trudeau’s time in India has instead been a diplomatic disaster. So, what went wrong? In a word, narcissism — paired with superficiality and poor judgement.

    The Canadian prime minister’s success to date can be traced more to his talents as a performance artist than to an understanding of statecraft, economics, or diplomacy. When posing in a costume, he is at his best. But without a scripted narrative to follow, he lacks the depth and the sophistication to grasp when the show has gone on too long.

    The trip started off on a disappointing note, as the Trudeau delegation was received at the airport by a minister of state, not even a member of Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s cabinet. International and local observers speculated that Trudeau was being snubbed, given the cold shoulder, over unscrupulous ties between his Liberal Party and Khalistani separatists and extremists.

    Too Little, Too Late? The Liberals have a long history of votebank politics, pandering to illiberal groups in exchange for votes. Trudeau has further aligned his party with the powerful World Sikh Organisation; he has appointed several of its supporters to highranking government positions.

    Trudeau’s partisan pandering went so far as attending a Khalsa Day parade in Toronto in 2017, where he gave a speech and was photographed in front of the yellow-andblue Khalistan separatist flag. Trudeau’s predecessor Stephen Harper refused to attend this event, and for good reason. These events feature militant Khalistani parade floats, posters and shrines dedicated to terrorists, and speakers calling for a violent upheaval in India. Trudeau’s poor judgement in attending this event was catching up with him in India.

    Things turned markedly worse for Trudeau when news broke in Canada, led by my own investigation for the Toronto Sun, that Trudeau’s entourage included a convicted assassin and former Sikh terrorist.

    After going to great length to convince Punjab Chief Minister Amarinder Singh that his government did not associate with radicals, we learned that one such radical was part of his own entourage in India.

    Jaspal Atwal was convicted of attempted murder in Canada in 1987 after he attempted to assassinate a visiting Punjabi cabinet minister, Malkiat Singh Sidhu, on Vancouver Island. At the time, Atwal was a member of the International Sikh Youth Federation — a terrorist group now banned in Canada.

    The Trudeau government tried to distance itself from Atwal, saying it was all a “mistake”, blaming a backbench MP, and insisting the invitation had been rescinded. Too little, too late, said some observers.

    Atwal was already in India, his official invitation to a state dinner was circulating on social media, and he had already been photographed with top Liberal officials and Trudeau’s wife Sophie.

    The Trudeau government’s explanation was further refuted when more photos surfaced of Atwal with Trudeau himself, one at a 2015 Liberal Party campaign event in Vancouver, and another that appears to have been taken before Trudeau became leader of the Liberal Party. Atwal is a longtime Liberal supporter and activist, he’s a former donor to the party and a former Liberal board member for the electoral district in Surrey, British Columbia. Atwal’s ties to the Liberals run deep, and there is no excuse for Trudeau’s continued relationship with a convicted criminal and former member of a terrorist organisation.

    Trudeau’s time in India was criticised for its lack of official business, not to mention the excessive photo-ops and insensitive overuse of Indian clothing. To add insult to injury for Canadians, his tax-payer funded tour looked more like another lavish family vacation — including his own celebrity chef flown in from Vancouver — than a diplomatic bilateral meeting. But these criticisms pale in comparison to serious catastrophe of not only associating with a convicted terrorist assassin, but bringing him to India alongside his official delegation.

    Many questions remain unanswered, including how Atwal received a visa and why the Prime Minister’s Office failed to vet the official invitation list. Trudeau will have plenty of explaining to do once he arrives back in Canada. Many Canadians, meanwhile, are deeply embarrassed and ashamed of Trudeau’s behaviour in India.

    A grassroots petition has been launched for Canadians to show their support for a united India and apologise on behalf of our clueless prime minister.

    Candice Malcolm is a journalist with the Toronto Sun and author of Losing True North: Justin Trudeau’s Assault on Canadian Citizenship Views are Personal

  14. #44
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    03 Sep 17
    Posts
    957
    Damage control

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/indi...p-up-1.4550703

    The part about meeting Indian business leaders is correct though. The entire room would think they could play this idiot for the fool he is and that he will sell Canada out if they just put him on a poster.

  15. #45
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
    Join Date
    02 Aug 03
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    11,631
    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Fine, as long as they keep it peaceful

    2020 is when Canada goes to the polls next i suppose. If that 'New Democrat' party wins, with this Jagmeet guy then we're going to be in for a rocky time
    I think it's unlikely that the New Democrats will prevail in the next Canadian election, being to the left of the Liberals. If voters are dissatisfied with the Liberal Party come 2019, I doubt they'll react with an even greater leftward swing.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Buck & Jim's Excellent Transmississippi Adventure 2017!
    By Albany Rifles in forum American Civil War
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 17 Apr 18,, 21:03
  2. Trudeau gov't approved Chinese takeover of Norsat
    By JRT in forum Military Aviation
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12 Jul 17,, 15:06
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 17 Jan 17,, 19:04
  4. Meryl Streep and Justin Trudeau, two elitists in a pod
    By troung in forum American Politics & Economy
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 16 Jan 17,, 17:50
  5. Justin Trudeau the bully
    By surfgun in forum International Politics
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 26 May 16,, 20:40

Share this thread with friends:

Share this thread with friends:

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •