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Thread: Stone pelting a conspiracy by Pakistan and its agents in Kashmir

  1. #691
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    ^ What the hell is USCIRF. Never heard of it. A place for jobless radical leftists to congregate? Their sense of elitism and entitlement is mind boggling.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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  2. #692
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    ^ Have you read the Pak press in recent times? They still can't digest that Kashmir has been divided into UTs. Some of them fear PoK is going to go away from them. The country is in a mess, Bajwa is promoting himself for another 3 years. Funny times. Who'd have thought.
    Not recently. Things seem to have gone quiet in J&K. With temps hovering a degree over freezing am not expecting much.

    I don't know about 3 years. For now he has 6 months. There are others who want a shot at top spot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    ^ What the hell is USCIRF. Never heard of it. A place for jobless radical leftists to congregate? Their sense of elitism and entitlement is mind boggling.
    I think we let them go see the Dalai Lama. Soon after Chinese got upset and said they don't accept the UT designation.

    When listening to the congressional hearings what seems to be coming up is NRC. It started with Assam and these 1.9 lakh people who would end up stateless. What isn't said is there are hindus also in that 1.9 lakhs. Hindus got scapegoated in the '71 war and had to leave in significant numbers. The CAB will take care of them. I don't know what happens to the muslims in that group. Assam's case gives the perception that muslims aren't welcome. But Modi said to Hasina they would not be sent to Bangladesh. So that means they will have to leave Assam and settle elsewhere in India. If that is the case then why are those detention centres being built. So there is some uncertainty.

    Resident muslims with citizenship will be unaffected of course. As the MEA said nobody will be stripped of citizenship. Imagine the furore that would cause. The CAB bill is not discriminatory to Indian citizens only to those in limbo.

    The fine point here is the NE does not discriminate against religion, they don't want mainlanders there, period!

    You told me mainlanders can settle in Assam and it is not true that Assam is like the rest of the NE but don't forget this whole NRC business began in Assam decades ago.

    Nagas want to preserve their tribal councils and way of life so i'm not sure how much of the Indian constitution even applies in that state. Just to visit an ILP state a mainlander needs permission. This is like applying for a visa within India. Questions were asked as to whether GOI can be trusted in any agreements with Nagas after 370. Whatever agreement made with GOI today will be temporary. In time Nagaland will be fully absorbed into the union. This is a given, that is if GOI has any intention of enforcing its writ within its official borders.

    The bottom line is CAB will engineer a legal displacement of people. This sets a precedent. How dangerous a precedent remains to be seen. Where our case differs from the west is they did not sit on the issue for several decades and then decide to do something about it. Though one can see parallels with the Trump moving on illegal aliens. Even that has been stymied in US courts to a certain extent. CAB will be challenged in the SC so there could still be more twists and turns to come.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 10 Dec 19, at 17:56.

  3. #693
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    The fine point here is the NE does not discriminate against religion, they don't want mainlanders there, period!
    This is what I'm against. NE is not their land to begin with. They are not the original inhabitants. And if they have the freedom to settle down anywhere in India, why can't mainland Indians settle down in NE. This is DISCRIMINATION.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    You told me mainlanders can settle in Assam and it is not true that Assam is like the rest of the NE but don't forget this whole NRC business began in Assam decades ago.
    Mainlanders can settle in Guwahati, Silchar etc. Will face communal taunts from the Assamese, but they can settle. Mainlanders cannot settle in the hill districts of Assam, Dima Hasao and Karbi Anglong. I am from Dima Hasao, one of the most backward (still is) places in India.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Nagas want to preserve their tribal councils and way of life so i'm not sure how much of the Indian constitution even applies in that state. Just to visit an ILP state a mainlander needs permission. This is like applying for a visa within India. Questions were asked as to whether GOI can be trusted in any agreements with Nagas after 370. Whatever agreement made with GOI today will be temporary. In time Nagaland will be fully absorbed into the union. This is a given, that is if GOI has any intention of enforcing its writ within its official borders.
    I have been to parts of Europe, I became an European? Culture is redundant, the motive is endemic corruption. Indian laws apply, that is why Nagaland is still within the Union of India, albeit not so much in far of villages. We still hunt barking deers etc, even though those are protected by the Wildlife Act.

    As about, ILP, it is discrimination. This needs to go, if we have to see the amalgamation of all states with India. You live down South, why not file a PIL in the Apex Court. I will help you with fantastic points. Tribals ruling themselves have taking NE down the corrupt rabbit hole.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    The bottom line is CAB will engineer a legal displacement of people. This sets a precedent. How dangerous a precedent remains to be seen. Where our case differs from the west is they did not sit on the issue for several decades and then decide to do something about it. Though one can see parallels with the Trump moving on illegal aliens. Even that has been stymied in US courts to a certain extent. CAB will be challenged in the SC so there could still be more twists and turns to come.
    CAB gives minorities (Christians, Hindus, Parsis, Jains, Buddhists etc) from Pakistan, Afghanistan and Bangladesh - Indian citizenship. Who will it displace? The illegal muslims. The thought process is that Muslims in the sub-continent already have 2 countries of their own - Pakistan & Bangladesh. I wanted CAB to cover the persecuted Shias, Ahmadis, Balochs, Pushtuns - even though it was Pushtuns and Ahmediyas alongwith the regular PA who marauded Kashmir in 1947. But, that, I hope, was well thought out by the Government in charge.

    One more thing. I don't want to see innocent blood being spilled. The day it happens, my vote will go to Congress. I am in my 40s, I can live with the mirage that India will get developed in another 50 years or never, but I absolutely cannot and will not tolerate right-wing Nazism that kills innocent people.

    2002 Gujarat riots: Nanavati-Mehta Commission gives clean chit to PM Narendra Modi

    Post-Godhra communal riots were not pre-planned: Nanavati Commission report

    This man, the PM of India, is a much misunderstood man. But he is the man.
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  4. #694
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Assam backgrounder



    CAB might have passed in the lower house and may do so in the upper house. But the NE is not going to accept it. We're back to the 80s again with chants of Jaya Axom. Meaning the war chants are going out for a second Assam movement.

    The Army has been called into Tripura. Tripura is 20% Bangla hindu. There is generally no trouble in that state and insurgency was defeated long back. The 20% outsider population had a calming effect in the state but see how things have flared up again in Tripura. It means people there thought these outsiders were only going to be temporary and now found out with CAB that they will be permanent. Being educated and successful is a liability in a place with tribals as they then blame you for their relative lack of success which stems from a lack of education. And if only these bengalis left then they too could be as successful. This is a bad state of affairs.

    It got Indians kicked out of Uganda, Burma, sidelining of Tamils in SL and i suspect even led to the Pandits being pushed out of Kashmir.




    The Assam agitation in the 80s wanted the cut off date to be 1951, Indira & Mujeeb pushed it up to 1971. The BJP has now pushed the cut off date to Dec 2014 end. So the Assamese feel their agitation in the 80s has come to nothing.

    See, we can't pin the blame on Pakistan or China for these agitations, they are entirely indigeneous and the problem is the refugees are not indigenenous.

    Delhi says refugees, Assam says they are infiltrators.

    Comment i saw in one of the channels read This govt cares more about illegal immigrants than its own citizens : D

    CAB protests: Internet blackout in parts of Assam from 7 pm


    In an official notification, the Assam government said that a prohibition on mobile data and internet services was being suspended for the next 24 hours, starting from 7 pm.
    Though no party or student body has called a shutdown, protesters, a majority of them students, fought pitched battles with security forces in the restive state, including in front of the secretariat, the seat of the BJP government. Police fired tear gas shells and baton-charged protesters, who fought back.
    Name:  assam internet.JPG
Views: 55
Size:  41.8 KB

    Irony!

    Hang in there Oracle!, hopefully this disturbance will subside soon : (
    Last edited by Double Edge; 13 Dec 19, at 03:48.

  5. #695
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    The opposition seems quite stiff. Note i'm not talking about the opposition in Parliament but the people in the NE against the CAB



    They interviewed a number of people and i found she was the most articulate

    Tripuris say since independence they have been reduced to a minority today and make up just 30% of the population

    It seems what the NE wants is their own 370 style agreement



    Assam is the route to the NE, anything that happens there affects all of the NE. If the NE wants to fight then it must make its stand in Assam. Assam is the epicentre.



    Whatever sentiments pro-brexit supporters expressed about being swamped by outsiders seems pretty damn mild compared to what these people are saying. It's bordering on existential. With Tripura that is exactly what it is. The rest are afraid that will happen to them next.

    The primary bone of contention here is why is the NE the only place to absorb these refugees and why isn't the rest of the country helping out with the load.

    Many of them say ILP means nothing, it does not protect them at all just a piece of paper.

    There is a sense of betrayal from their reps in parliament who they say should have opposed the CAB. If votes can be bought then people will get the govt they deserve or the simpler explanation is they were lied to (!)

    I'm surprised to hear in some places CRPF have orders to shoot at protesters. One girl has been killed. This does not happen in Kashmir.

    Then again i guess a protest in the NE is no cakewalk for the forces.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 13 Dec 19, at 03:46.

  6. #696
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    I don't think the HR argument is going to trump the law & order argument

    Sec.144 had been imposed in my state from Thurs 6am to Sat midnight to pre-empt protests planned for today & tomorrow in the city against the CAA bill.

    Sec.144 means assembly of more than 5 persons is prohibited and people will be detained.

    The idea is to preserve law & order because if that goes out of hand like it has in Delhi they will unplug me from the internet as well !!

    The opposition is making hay with fear mongering because the govt did not conduct sufficient citizen outreach.

    The NE would not have blown up had they done that. People in the NE voted for the BJP and did not get what they expected.

    With the home minister saying he wants NRC across the country it has sent people into a panic as to how they will be able to prove they are citizens.

    Listen to Palki

    Last edited by Double Edge; 19 Dec 19, at 13:12.

  7. #697
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    The opposition will do its thing, this Congress rep from Jaynagar talks well



    She says the govt is arrogant, this is a sentiment people of Assam will share

    Assam will accept an NRC

    Assam has had a NRC

    After CAA Assam no longer accepts the NRC because they don't want hindu or muslim migrants and CAA includes hindus out of that lot.

    Assam now wants a fresh NRC which is unlikely because the NRC they have was conducted under Supreme court's supervision.

    Unless the SC goes back on the NRC it supervised Assam ain't getting a fresh NRC (!)
    Last edited by Double Edge; 19 Dec 19, at 22:09.

  8. #698
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    We made front page in the WSJ, WAPO & NYT. Top marks for the NYT headline. Well done



    They say these things about India you can only imagine how big a pinch of salt one needs when it comes to reading their reporting of their own country.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 19 Dec 19, at 23:59.

  9. #699
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Let's see if Oracle shows up tomorrow. Gauhati HC has ordered the govt to restore mobile internet services : )


  10. #700
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    I'm back, after 10 days of total internet shutdown. I'm grateful that booze shops were open, and I could drink every night, and ate lots of meat too. Not much disturbance where I live, albeit muslims in some places pelted stones. Misinformation is everywhere. Hah! Guess I now understand what lack of connectivity means with the rest of the world. I don't watch television, nor can I read any regional language or Hindi. I was royally fcuked. It was like living in vacuum with nothing, no news, zero. The GoI should identify every single protestor and put them behind bars for their lifetime. Why should I suffer because some idiots wanted to burn down police station, buses, and other public property. Such illiterate people we have in this damn country.

    Btw, internet was restored only at 9:30 AM. I didn't even know Ghy HC had ordered anything. :(
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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  11. #701
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    You're on time : )

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    I'm back, after 10 days of total internet shutdown. I'm grateful that booze shops were open, and I could drink every night, and ate lots of meat too. Not much disturbance where I live, albeit muslims in some places pelted stones. Misinformation is everywhere. Hah! Guess I now understand what lack of connectivity means with the rest of the world. I don't watch television, nor can I read any regional language or Hindi. I was royally fcuked. It was like living in vacuum with nothing, no news, zero. The GoI should identify every single protestor and put them behind bars for their lifetime. Why should I suffer because some idiots wanted to burn down police station, buses, and other public property. Such illiterate people we have in this damn country.

    Btw, internet was restored only at 9:30 AM. I didn't even know Ghy HC had ordered anything. :(
    There we were talking about internet shutdown in J&K and then it happens to you. Remember this ?


    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    If you feel like protesting they impose Sec.144

    If you then take it to the internet they unplug the internet.

    Last edited by Double Edge; 20 Dec 19, at 14:49.

  12. #702
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    You're on time : )

    There we were talking about internet shutdown in J&K and then it happens to you. Remember this ?
    Yes I remember. The issue in Assam or other parts of the country is not Pak sponsored terrorism, but left supported violent agitation. I was angry as I couldn't use Git/GitHub, TOI, ET etc mobile apps. I wanted Government to find a solution other than banning internet for every agitation.. How about some CRPF's on the streets? Some can't control mobs? Okay, how about 1000 CRPF with guns with the orders to kill on the streets?

    Remember Dera Sacha Sauda's sentencing in Gurgaon (IIRC), and his followers creating a ruckus, and Police shooting dead 36 people? This should have been both the test case and the use case for violent agitations. Heck, CRPF is also not needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    If you feel like protesting they impose Sec.144

    If you then take it to the internet they unplug the internet.

    Only when those a-holes created nuisance and destroyed public property, sec 144 was imposed. If people have to protest, they can. Sit down, call the media, protest all you want. Heck, next time vote for someone else. Why become violent idiots in the process?
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

  13. #703
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Yes I remember. The issue in Assam or other parts of the country is not Pak sponsored terrorism, but left supported violent agitation.
    Curious you say that because Assam no longer is in the red corridor

    If you can watch YT videos listen to what people in post #695 are saying.

    They don't sound very left to me. They make it pretty damn clear that outsiders are not welcome.

    Look at them, they don't look like proxies for any external powers or leftists.

    Are they radicals ? i can't tell. They seem like normal people.

    They are well spoken and talking straight!

    The reason i take what they are saying seriously is because NE people don't muck around when it comes to demands

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nellie_massacre

    The commision's report is a secret and to date no CM of Assam was held responsible.

    No justice, no redressal, nothing.

    Who talks about Nellie, nobody's heard of it.

    NE is not on anybody's radar. You can get away with murder there.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 21 Dec 19, at 18:48.

  14. #704
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Brave women in Delhi



    There must be more to this story. Why were the cops after the guy

    https://www.opindia.com/2019/12/lade...ests-profiles/

    Thats some of the background but why are the cops after this Shaheen guy

    Given the extremist ideologies of the individuals concerned, the investigative authorities need to thoroughly investigate whether any Jamia students were involved in raising those slogans. Furthermore, it also needs to be investigated whether Jamia students with extremist ideologies instigated those violent protests even if they didn’t directly participate in it. It is also pertinent to note that in Ladeeda’s call for Jihad, she had tagged others who belong to the Jamia Milia Islamia University. It emphasizes the necessity of investigating the radicalization of the Muslim youth in top universities.
    https://www.opindia.com/2019/12/jami...s-citizenship/

    Will Barkha be mentioning any of these students radical backgrounds in her forthcoming WAPO piece.

    It will be about PO-Lice brutality on the innocent protesters.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 22 Dec 19, at 00:14.

  15. #705
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Curious you say that because Assam no longer is in the red corridor
    Let's understand left first. LEFT = Congress + Communists, in India. If I missed something, please add it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    If you can watch YT videos listen to what people in post #695 are saying.

    They don't sound very left to me. They make it pretty damn clear that outsiders are not welcome.

    Look at them, they don't look like proxies for any external powers or leftists.

    Are they radicals ? i can't tell. They seem like normal people.

    They are well spoken and talking straight!

    The reason i take what they are saying seriously is because NE people don't muck around when it comes to demands

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nellie_massacre

    The commision's report is a secret and to date no CM of Assam was held responsible.

    No justice, no redressal, nothing.

    Who talks about Nellie, nobody's heard of it.
    Those same people voted for the BJP @ Center @ State. 99% of the people are fools. They don't understand issues objectively. 50% of that 99% would be high school dropouts. Some lakhs of Hindu Bengalis from Bangladesh would not make a dent in Assam as far as religious dimensions are concerned. Birth rate of Muslims are way higher. So, in future Assamese people will no longer be the majority. Only with Hindu Bengalis, can Assam remain a Hindu majority state. This is what the BJP is not saying openly.

    Now, Hindu Assamese hate Muslims too. But they hate Hindu Bengalis more. Why? Because Hindu Bengalis from among the state study hard and get jobs within and outside the state. This again is a complex issue, because, as we both know, India was not founded on merit, but rather on caste. Now if additional Hindu Bengalis are allowed in the state, then some jobs will go to them too. Right? There are many issues, you won't understand those watching YouTube videos. Kind of like how Kukis are ignored/sidelined in Manipur, and why they want Senapati as an Autonomous Kuki District.

    Coming back to left, Congress + communist parties + AIUDF have hijacked people's emotions, and hence the protests, burnings, stone pelting. In Barak Valley, Bengali majority (Hindu + Muslim) place, where I live currently, only 3 small stone pelting incidents have taken place. It's peaceful here. Out of the 3 districts that comprises BV, 1 is already Muslim dominated. This scares people here, the muslim issue. Many cases, kind of like love-jihad etc.

    Nellie Massacre's planners/instigators/killers have been forgiven and cases against them withdrawn when the Assam Accord was signed. Such a shame, ain't it? 1000s of innocent muslims got killed and nothing happened to the killers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    NE is not on anybody's radar. You can get away with murder there.
    NE's in the radar of JeM Bangladesh, Ansarullah, Pak ISI. You know, sometimes I don't understand why people look for good lawyers, when they can buy a judge. People here are not that insensitive. Some of them just happen to like the color of blood.

    To BJP, you guys need to get a good PR dude, who can effectively channel the party's thoughts to the people in a correct manner, so that issues don't get hijacked by left wing and islamic extremists. And, for God's sake stop banning internet for such frivolous issues. Bring the Army down on the streets, if you can't manage protests, but do not cut internet. Shoot 20-30 of those rioters and see how peace prevails.
    Last edited by Oracle; 22 Dec 19, at 04:16.
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