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Thread: Stone pelting a conspiracy by Pakistan and its agents in Kashmir

  1. #691
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    ^ What the hell is USCIRF. Never heard of it. A place for jobless radical leftists to congregate? Their sense of elitism and entitlement is mind boggling.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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  2. #692
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    ^ Have you read the Pak press in recent times? They still can't digest that Kashmir has been divided into UTs. Some of them fear PoK is going to go away from them. The country is in a mess, Bajwa is promoting himself for another 3 years. Funny times. Who'd have thought.
    Not recently. Things seem to have gone quiet in J&K. With temps hovering a degree over freezing am not expecting much.

    I don't know about 3 years. For now he has 6 months. There are others who want a shot at top spot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    ^ What the hell is USCIRF. Never heard of it. A place for jobless radical leftists to congregate? Their sense of elitism and entitlement is mind boggling.
    I think we let them go see the Dalai Lama. Soon after Chinese got upset and said they don't accept the UT designation.

    When listening to the congressional hearings what seems to be coming up is NRC. It started with Assam and these 1.9 lakh people who would end up stateless. What isn't said is there are hindus also in that 1.9 lakhs. Hindus got scapegoated in the '71 war and had to leave in significant numbers. The CAB will take care of them. I don't know what happens to the muslims in that group. Assam's case gives the perception that muslims aren't welcome. But Modi said to Hasina they would not be sent to Bangladesh. So that means they will have to leave Assam and settle elsewhere in India. If that is the case then why are those detention centres being built. So there is some uncertainty.

    Resident muslims with citizenship will be unaffected of course. As the MEA said nobody will be stripped of citizenship. Imagine the furore that would cause. The CAB bill is not discriminatory to Indian citizens only to those in limbo.

    The fine point here is the NE does not discriminate against religion, they don't want mainlanders there, period!

    You told me mainlanders can settle in Assam and it is not true that Assam is like the rest of the NE but don't forget this whole NRC business began in Assam decades ago.

    Nagas want to preserve their tribal councils and way of life so i'm not sure how much of the Indian constitution even applies in that state. Just to visit an ILP state a mainlander needs permission. This is like applying for a visa within India. Questions were asked as to whether GOI can be trusted in any agreements with Nagas after 370. Whatever agreement made with GOI today will be temporary. In time Nagaland will be fully absorbed into the union. This is a given, that is if GOI has any intention of enforcing its writ within its official borders.

    The bottom line is CAB will engineer a legal displacement of people. This sets a precedent. How dangerous a precedent remains to be seen. Where our case differs from the west is they did not sit on the issue for several decades and then decide to do something about it. Though one can see parallels with the Trump moving on illegal aliens. Even that has been stymied in US courts to a certain extent. CAB will be challenged in the SC so there could still be more twists and turns to come.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 10 Dec 19, at 17:56.

  3. #693
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    The fine point here is the NE does not discriminate against religion, they don't want mainlanders there, period!
    This is what I'm against. NE is not their land to begin with. They are not the original inhabitants. And if they have the freedom to settle down anywhere in India, why can't mainland Indians settle down in NE. This is DISCRIMINATION.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    You told me mainlanders can settle in Assam and it is not true that Assam is like the rest of the NE but don't forget this whole NRC business began in Assam decades ago.
    Mainlanders can settle in Guwahati, Silchar etc. Will face communal taunts from the Assamese, but they can settle. Mainlanders cannot settle in the hill districts of Assam, Dima Hasao and Karbi Anglong. I am from Dima Hasao, one of the most backward (still is) places in India.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Nagas want to preserve their tribal councils and way of life so i'm not sure how much of the Indian constitution even applies in that state. Just to visit an ILP state a mainlander needs permission. This is like applying for a visa within India. Questions were asked as to whether GOI can be trusted in any agreements with Nagas after 370. Whatever agreement made with GOI today will be temporary. In time Nagaland will be fully absorbed into the union. This is a given, that is if GOI has any intention of enforcing its writ within its official borders.
    I have been to parts of Europe, I became an European? Culture is redundant, the motive is endemic corruption. Indian laws apply, that is why Nagaland is still within the Union of India, albeit not so much in far of villages. We still hunt barking deers etc, even though those are protected by the Wildlife Act.

    As about, ILP, it is discrimination. This needs to go, if we have to see the amalgamation of all states with India. You live down South, why not file a PIL in the Apex Court. I will help you with fantastic points. Tribals ruling themselves have taking NE down the corrupt rabbit hole.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    The bottom line is CAB will engineer a legal displacement of people. This sets a precedent. How dangerous a precedent remains to be seen. Where our case differs from the west is they did not sit on the issue for several decades and then decide to do something about it. Though one can see parallels with the Trump moving on illegal aliens. Even that has been stymied in US courts to a certain extent. CAB will be challenged in the SC so there could still be more twists and turns to come.
    CAB gives minorities (Christians, Hindus, Parsis, Jains, Buddhists etc) from Pakistan, Afghanistan and Bangladesh - Indian citizenship. Who will it displace? The illegal muslims. The thought process is that Muslims in the sub-continent already have 2 countries of their own - Pakistan & Bangladesh. I wanted CAB to cover the persecuted Shias, Ahmadis, Balochs, Pushtuns - even though it was Pushtuns and Ahmediyas alongwith the regular PA who marauded Kashmir in 1947. But, that, I hope, was well thought out by the Government in charge.

    One more thing. I don't want to see innocent blood being spilled. The day it happens, my vote will go to Congress. I am in my 40s, I can live with the mirage that India will get developed in another 50 years or never, but I absolutely cannot and will not tolerate right-wing Nazism that kills innocent people.

    2002 Gujarat riots: Nanavati-Mehta Commission gives clean chit to PM Narendra Modi

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    This man, the PM of India, is a much misunderstood man. But he is the man.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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  4. #694
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Assam backgrounder



    CAB might have passed in the lower house and may do so in the upper house. But the NE is not going to accept it. We're back to the 80s again with chants of Jaya Axom. Meaning the war chants are going out for a second Assam movement.

    The Army has been called into Tripura. Tripura is 20% Bangla hindu. There is generally no trouble in that state and insurgency was defeated long back. The 20% outsider population had a calming effect in the state but see how things have flared up again in Tripura. It means people there thought these outsiders were only going to be temporary and now found out with CAB that they will be permanent. Being educated and successful is a liability in a place with tribals as they then blame you for their relative lack of success which stems from a lack of education. And if only these bengalis left then they too could be as successful. This is a bad state of affairs.

    It got Indians kicked out of Uganda, Burma, sidelining of Tamils in SL and i suspect even led to the Pandits being pushed out of Kashmir.




    The Assam agitation in the 80s wanted the cut off date to be 1951, Indira & Mujeeb pushed it up to 1971. The BJP has now pushed the cut off date to Dec 2014 end. So the Assamese feel their agitation in the 80s has come to nothing.

    See, we can't pin the blame on Pakistan or China for these agitations, they are entirely indigeneous and the problem is the refugees are not indigenenous.

    Delhi says refugees, Assam says they are infiltrators.

    Comment i saw in one of the channels read This govt cares more about illegal immigrants than its own citizens : D

    CAB protests: Internet blackout in parts of Assam from 7 pm


    In an official notification, the Assam government said that a prohibition on mobile data and internet services was being suspended for the next 24 hours, starting from 7 pm.
    Though no party or student body has called a shutdown, protesters, a majority of them students, fought pitched battles with security forces in the restive state, including in front of the secretariat, the seat of the BJP government. Police fired tear gas shells and baton-charged protesters, who fought back.
    Name:  assam internet.JPG
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    Irony!

    Hang in there Oracle!, hopefully this disturbance will subside soon : (
    Last edited by Double Edge; 13 Dec 19, at 03:48.

  5. #695
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    The opposition seems quite stiff. Note i'm not talking about the opposition in Parliament but the people in the NE against the CAB



    They interviewed a number of people and i found she was the most articulate

    Tripuris say since independence they have been reduced to a minority today and make up just 30% of the population

    It seems what the NE wants is their own 370 style agreement



    Assam is the route to the NE, anything that happens there affects all of the NE. If the NE wants to fight then it must make its stand in Assam. Assam is the epicentre.



    Whatever sentiments pro-brexit supporters expressed about being swamped by outsiders seems pretty damn mild compared to what these people are saying. It's bordering on existential. With Tripura that is exactly what it is. The rest are afraid that will happen to them next.

    The primary bone of contention here is why is the NE the only place to absorb these refugees and why isn't the rest of the country helping out with the load.

    Many of them say ILP means nothing, it does not protect them at all just a piece of paper.

    There is a sense of betrayal from their reps in parliament who they say should have opposed the CAB. If votes can be bought then people will get the govt they deserve or the simpler explanation is they were lied to (!)

    I'm surprised to hear in some places CRPF have orders to shoot at protesters. One girl has been killed. This does not happen in Kashmir.

    Then again i guess a protest in the NE is no cakewalk for the forces.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 13 Dec 19, at 03:46.

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