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Thread: Stone pelting a conspiracy by Pakistan and its agents in Kashmir

  1. #661
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    65 days after lockdown, officials in Valley caution: Don’t call this ‘normal’ | IE | Oct 09 2019

    More than 60 days into the lockdown in the Valley, many officials on the ground, both in the civilian and security establishment, have begun to say that the political imperative, from New Delhi, to sustain an “everything-is-normal” narrative is turning out to be challenging — and could even be counterproductive.
    No dispute on that

    “We used to say that security forces watch the clock while militants have all the time but now it’s the other way around.

    It seems the Government’s strategy is that it has all the time while residents in Jammu and Kashmir can keep a watch on the clock,” said an officer.

    “We aren’t sure how effective this tire-them-down approach will be but what we are sure of is that this is not normalcy and all of us need to accept that.”

    Over a week, The Indian Express spoke with more than a dozen bureaucrats and police officers in Srinagar and in the two South Kashmir districts of Shopian and Pulwama.

    “Delhi thinks if no major incidents have happened so far, things are normal. This hypothesis is wrong,” said a senior bureaucrat who sits in meetings where coordination issues between the civilian administration and the security establishment are resolved.

    “That there have been just two civilian casualties is more due to elaborate planning, preparedness of the establishment and close coordination at the ground level between the civilian government, the Army, CRPF, Border Security Force and the J&K Police,” said another senior official, who also did not wish to be named.
    Frank

    Said a senior police officer, among the key decision-makers in the Valley: “In many places, locals, of their own volition, do not want to open the shops.”

    According to him, police are tracking five key indicators to make an assessment of militancy suggests these haven’t shown any spikes as they did after the Burhan Wani killing in July 2016:

    Slogan, Flag, Rumours, Intimidation, Posters.

    “When a janaza is lifted, you expect people to cry. But nobody is reacting to a decision which permanently changes the character of J&K – bifurcation, abrogation of Article 370 and doing away with the special dispensation under Article 35A.

    I don’t know what this silence means but to call it peaceful or normal is certainly not accurate,” a top police offer told The Indian Express.


    Another bureaucrat points to how the police is already re-calibrating its formulation.

    “You will hear the Director General of Police saying things are under control. He doesn’t say, it is normal anymore,” the officer notes.

    “A big action was taken on August 5. We don’t know what the reaction will be, and neither do we have any clue on its timing. We cannot be lulled to believe things are normal,” said an officer, reiterating that no big incidents have happened only because of the extreme preventive measures, and a dominating presence of the forces.

    “We had planned for three months – till November 5,” said a senior Army officer, who did not wish to be quoted.
    The mood in this article is more circumspect
    Last edited by Double Edge; 13 Oct 19, at 01:28.

  2. #662
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    One month after he posted it but better late than never



    No, they are not the same and if anything the HK situation is a damn side more complicated.

  3. #663
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    An article by Abha Khanna from a year ago, says it all

    Jammu Kashmir: The Deadly Game of Perceptions | JK Now | Sept 11 2018

    The majority in the state of Jammu and Kashmir, including the Kashmir valley, is peace-loving and totally Indian at heart. The tragedy is that no one is talking to them. The historical blunders of political leadership during and after the Partition era are being compounded today.

    Pro-India voices have always been in majority in the state but unfortunately Delhi has always negotiated with separatists working at the behest of anti-India forces.

    It’s regrettable that separatists and terrorists manage to use the nuisance factor in their favor.

    What we are seeing and hearing in news everyday is not the truth, but a cleverly created perception with the help of a biased local media. The common man has been reduced to a silent onlooker, confused and frustrated.

    There’s urgent need to change the discourse in favor of the common people. Despite high voting percentage in almost all elections in Jammu Kashmir, the voter continues to be deprived of the benefits of democracy and governance.
    This is just like Trump talking to the Taliban and ignoring GiROA. The more egregious difference is India kept at it for the better part of two decades (!)

    Have you ever wondered why it is always the youth that is shown as the face of ‘militancy’? Whether it be ‘anti-India’ protests, stone-pelting at security forces or terrorist encounters, the perpetrators are almost always teenagers!

    Separatists have, over the past decades, perfected their hand at the game of perceptions. It is clearly in their interest to create the notion that ‘militancy’ is returning to Kashmir because the people are unhappy.

    If the issues before the local population are so serious, why aren’t the adults out on the streets as well?

    Unfortunately, the mainstream media plays into the hands of separatist strategists, whether wittingly or unwittingly. In any case there are certain media houses which would rather play the devil’s advocate than do positive journalism.
    And these media houses kept at it for years. What a refreshing change the days after Aug 5 have been. No more breakfast meetings with Farouk now.

    Local Kashmiris are themselves unhappy with this situation. In fact those who can afford it prefer to send their children out of the state to study, with the express purpose of keeping them away from such disruptive influences.

    In each and every case where a youth has left home to join a terrorist group, he has not done it with his parent’s approval. He just leaves the house without telling anyone, sometimes leaving behind a letter. The family tries its best to trace their son and bring him back, but he’s already in dangerous territory from where there’s no coming back.

    On the other hand, stone pelting had been consciously developed into a profession during the 2008-10 unrest. Youngsters were known to get paid as much as 500 rupees per day for pelting stones. Even today youngsters of certain areas, such as Pattan, are known for their ‘expertise’ in stone-pelting.

    While there’s still some money to be made in this ‘profession’, it has also turned into a favorite pastime for restive youth. All it needs is a small trigger for them to come out to throw stones at marketplaces, at security convoys etc.

    It speaks volumes for the restraint exercised by security forces that when unarmed boys throw stones at their vehicles, the armed forces personnel quietly suffer the assault and drive away. The social media and internet are full of such videos – clearly nailing the lie behind the effort to project security forces as ‘trigger happy brutes’.
    Lack of development is certainly a big issue here, but surprisingly no one is talking about it.

    Perhaps it is convenient to keep the separatist agenda alive and the law-and-order situation tense so that local residents never get the opportunity to ask their leaders about basic developmental work!
    Governance seems to be completely missing at ground level in the Jammu Kashmir, the valley included. The institutions of democratic functioning that have been effectively developed elsewhere in the country – for example Panchayati Raj – are totally missing in this state. A lot of public frustration stems from this reason.

    The core issues of development and corruption need to addressed seriously. That’s the only way to do away with misunderstandings of the past and disenchantment with the governments of the day.
    They had the panchayat elections recently and the turnout was nearing 40%.

    The governments also need to focus on the processes of integration and cultural exchange to create a positive social atmosphere.

    The bureaucracy, both at the state and central level, is still functioning with the mindset of mid-90s when terrorism was at its peak. The rules and procedures put in place then are no longer relevant now. The situation on ground has completely changed since then, and the governments now need to apply their mind afresh to techniques and procedures to handle the current scenarios.

    In fact, it’ll be a good idea for political leaders and bureaucrats to start talking directly to the people of the state, across all regions, instead of depending on the media for ground reports. The people of the state may be in pain, but there’s no doubt they are very much Indian.
    Things will change now.

  4. #664
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Given the airtime wasted on Corbyn's trolling i guess a clarification was warranted.



    Can't help saying, i told you so! DOH!



    The guests in that show are playing to the gallery. Rishabh below has it right

    Last edited by Double Edge; 20 Oct 19, at 05:08.

  5. #665
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Condemn but cannot prevent. SO what about Home secretary ?? Preety

    London Mayor condemns plans to hold anti-India march over Kashmir on Diwali | ET | Oc 20 2019

    In response to Shah's request to consider seeking permission to ban the protest due to public disorder fears, he added: “As you know, the power to ban marches of this nature lies solely with the Home Secretary, not with me as the Mayor of London. I am copying this letter to both the Home Secretary, Priti Patel, and the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, Cressida Dick, so they can clearly see the extent of my concerns about this march.”

  6. #666
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    This one is new

    Letters ‘put on hold’ as Pakistan stops mail from India for the first time | IE | Oct 21 2019

    It’s been more than one-and-a-half months since Pakistan last accepted a consignment from India, on August 27, forcing the Indian postal authorities to put mail marked for the country “on hold”. Said R V Chaudhary, the Director of Postal Services (Mail and Business Development), Delhi, “It was a unilateral decision on their part. This is the first time they have taken such a stand… We are not sure when the order will be lifted.”

    Even through Partition, three wars, and extended tension, and despite the circuitous route involving the Middle-East, one service did not stop between India and Pakistan. In the wake of abrogation of Article 370 however, Pakistan has stopped postal mail between the two countries.
    Said Delhi FPO Superintendent Satish Kumar, “Most of the postal mails to Pakistan are dispatched by this office and a majority of them are from Punjab and Jammu and Kashmir. It is mostly academic and literary material.”

    Besides, Desai added, some official communication has to be by posts. “For instance, if an Indian fisherman is arrested, the power of attorney that has to be sent to his lawyer cannot be couriered. And courts do not accept emails.”

    Nazar Husain, whose sister lives in Karachi, said the exchange of documents between India and Pakistan mostly pertains to sponsor letters for visa. “In the last 10 years, I have started e-mailing her the documents. But officials sometimes demand an original letter.” Husain also talked about using a round-about way, through courier to Kuwait and then Karachi, during the Kargil War or other times of tension.

    In Karachi, Malik-ul-ushtar said he too has started using private courier services and routing his mail via Dubai and Kuwait. “The end of postal service will hardly impact communication between India and Pakistan,” he said.

    What remains less known is that even India-Pakistan postal mail took this long route, due to the lack of a direct flight between the two countries — except for the parcels booked through Railways. “Until the suspension of service by Pakistan, the Saudi Arabian Airlines carried mails from India to Pakistan and vice-versa, with Riyadh acting as the exchange centre for letters. Prior to that, letters were exchanged in Dubai. About a couple of years ago, even Singapore was the exchange centre,” said a senior official in the Delhi FPO, refusing to be named.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 22 Oct 19, at 22:54.

  7. #667
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Heads up by Joyeeta on whoever this Jagmeet Singh is..

    Why can't normal Punjabi's get into politics in Canada. Instead we get these khalistani's thinking they can dictate to us from abroad. They cannot. Canada isn't going to jeopardise bilateral relations for the sake of domestic politics or vote bank politics.



    So the Paks support the Khalistanis who in exchange parrot out the Pak line on Kashmir. Keep sloganeering, boys, you ain't getting anything more : )

  8. #668
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    House Foreign affairs committee hearing on Human rights on Kashmir



    Have to commend the Asst Secretary here for doing an excellent job against some pretty brutal questioning.

    The rep that caught my attention is this Ms. Jackson Lee. Listen to what she says

    2:04:50. She thinks we should not be calling the Paks terrorists because they've lost people to terrorism. HAHA! Are you fcuking crazy woman !!! whose pocket are you in ?!? do you even know what goes on in Pakistan. I don't think so. And Ms. Wells rebuts her just like she did Ilhan Omar and many others who were not this blatant.

    Another character here. Mr. Costa
    2:13:00 Why do i keep hearing this 800k troop number. Almost 1 for 8. Who is feeding these people this nonsense !!! Ms.Wells to the rescue again.

    House arrests ? who ? a few hundred activists and the leaders that are highly motivated to cause unrest because their time is up and this is their last chance to fight back.

    The rest of the public are free to move around. The Kashmiri press is running normally putting out papers as shown on the Kashmir truth program on DD News.



    Expert witness testimony. Aarti did her best to keep the side up. There was another lady here from Sindh and was talking about HR violations from Sindh. Two more ladies, one a cultural anthropologist from Berkeley called Anjana Chatterjee and another called Natasha Kaul. Finally there was a guy from Amnesty. Apparently the panel was selected by the Kashmiri american association in the states. Two chapters from either coast. No Kashmiri muslims were interested in participating in this panel for some reason. So the only muslim was the lady from Pakistan and the rest were all hindus and women.

    The lady from Sindh did a good job describing the atrocities that happen to minorities in Pakistan. But nobody seemed interested in her. She pointed this out in one reply, everybody seemed more interested in India. Despite the hearing being about HR in South Asia.

    Aarti did not get much of a chance to say a lot either and on top of that got accused by this Ilhan Omar for being a govt stooge. The chairman gave Aarti a chance to set the record straight. She was the only one in the panel who actually visited the place post Aug 5. She could have countered pretty much everything said but she could only do so when asked.

    What the panel seemed more interested in was the other two ladies and the Amnesty guy. Who went on about the way things were imposed after Aug 5. Why they were more credible spouting on about religious freedoms and bashing the ruling govt is a mystery. That no civilian deaths have occurred for nearly 3 months did not seem to impress them. One of the panelists even pointed this out that without security there are no rights but the rep insisted that did not explain the lack of transparency in the govts manner post Aug 5.

    The reps kept mentioning constituents who could not reach relatives etc. This was a problem in Aug. It's not a problem today. But they were under the impression that the clamp down was still at the max which it isn't.

    You also got the distinct sense that while Indian journalists were good they preferred hearing from western journalists. NO less than the chairman of the hearing said that. Lemme guess why. The Dems control the house. NYT, WAPO along with the cable news channels do a good job bashing Trump. That's all they do. He seems not to appreciate journalists explaining the govts position in the absence of agenda and opposition rhetoric.

    I saw a tweet that said it took eight weeks for foreign journalists to get permission to go there. We have other headaches to deal with than provide protection for western reporters. They also did not like that we blocked a senator from going there. Why ? its not a good time.

    If Indian reporters aren't blocked from reporting anywhere in the US then why does reciprocity not apply to American reporters in India. Ms. Jackson Lee asked. Maybe she should understand the ground situation in J&K before making such a ridiculous comment. It amazes me how people can be in positions of power and know SFA about the subject under discussion.

    The amnesty guy said India was sensitive to what the US thought on the matter and recommended more resolutions and hearings on the matter in the future. This govt has taken a bold move knowing the matter will be internationalised. We will have to deal with whatever comes. US does not have a position on 370 per the Asst secretary. They are concerned about rights of the detained and the general well being of people in J&K. They are Indian citizens.They will be accorded the same rights as people any where else in the country.

    The mystery here is why elements of the left in the US, Canada & UK want to side with the Paks. Why choose a party where the left for all intents and matters does not exist. I also do not believe the will choose a bankrupt state that supports terrorism over a rising power. That is the bet the Indian govt is making.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 25 Oct 19, at 11:38.

  9. #669
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Small wonder Aarti seems bitter over the experience.

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    Fingers crossed Trump gets another term because we ain't taking this nonsense from the Dems. Clinton cocked things up good for us in the 90s but came to his senses when Kargil happened.

    This is not the weak India of the 90s any more. We will deal with whatever comes in the manner we see fit. Whether it be Canada, UK or the US.

    US House Hearing Committee: An exercise in genocide denial and how ‘Kashmiri Hindus’ contributed to the disgrace | Op-India | Oct 23 2019

    o_O

    It would seem Aarti isn't popular with the left or the right. Proof positive that she isn't biased. This piece from the right takes a shot at her even. Nit pick for no good reason. Too clever by half.

    How about these clowns send their own rep next time so we can also use them for target practice !!
    Last edited by Double Edge; 26 Oct 19, at 15:32.

  10. #670
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    This will be a good shot in the arm

    98.3% polling recorded in first-ever BDC polls in J&K | PTI | Oct 24 2019

    I've never heard of such a turnout any where in the country at any time. Clearly they are very receptive to the village council idea.

    There were 26,629 electors -- 8,313 women and 18,316 men -- for the polls to elect chairpersons of BDCs, which are organisations in the second tier of Panchayati Raj Institutions (PRIs), officials said.

    PRIs have three levels -- village, block and district -- and election for the first tier were held last year, which was also boycotted by the NC and the PDP.
    The best part is Abdullas & Mufti's boycotted the Panchayat elections last year. So we are starting afresh ground up.

    Congress, CPI(M), NC and PDP did not take part in the elections, which are being held on party basis, leaving the field open to the BJP, that had candidates in 280 blocks, and Independents.

    Congress had announced its decision to boycott the elections citing "indifferent attitude" of the state administration and continued detention of its leaders in Kashmir.

    The NC had slammed the decision to hold BDC elections, alleging it is "the biggest mockery of democracy" to hold polls when the entire leadership of the state is "under detention".
    They were not interested in the Pachayat elections last Dec. Nobody was detained then. These people acted like they own the place. Well, time out of office will do them some good.

    So how did the BJP do ?


    In First Election After Article 370 Move, BJP Trounced in Jammu and Kashmir | The Wire | Oct 25 2019


    Independent candidates swept the polls across the state, winning 217 of 307 panchayat blocks in all three regions of Kashmir, Jammu and Ladakh.

    The BJP couldn’t even cross the 100 mark, winning just 81 seats despite running a full-fledged campaign across the state for almost a month.
    The Valley comprises 136 panchayat blocks. The official figures released by chief electoral officer Shalendra Kumar showed that independents won 109 of 128 seats in Kashmir.

    The BJP did not win a single seat in five Kashmir districts – Kupwara, Bandipora, Ganderbal, Srinagar and Kulgam, as per the official figures. Independents won all 50 seats in these districts.

    The only win for the BJP in Kashmir was Shopian, where it won all eight seats – six of them unopposed.
    Jammu

    Of the 148 seats across the division, the party won just 52 segments, while independents bagged the highest number of 88 seats. The Panthers Party won the remaining eight seats.

    Independents swept the polls in Poonch district, winning all 11 seats. The worry for the BJP will be its loss to independents in mainland Jammu – Kathua, Samba, Udhampur and Jammu districts.

    While independents won 11 seats in Jammu district, BJP stood second with nine seats. Similarly, independents won 10 seats in Kathua while BJP bagged nine seats. The party walked away with four seats in neighboring Samba district, while independents won five seats.
    Ladakh
    The BJP was hoping to perform better in Ladakh after the Centre accorded union territory status to the region spread over two districts. But the party’s hopes were dashed as it stood second in the cold desert as well.

    Independent candidates won 20 of 31 seats in the region, while the BJP bagged 11 segments. In Buddhist-dominated Leh, a BJP stronghold, the party won seven seats while independents secured a win on nine seats. In Muslim-majority Kargil, BJP candidates won four seats while independents won 11 seats.
    Unfazed Modi has hailed the turnout

    News that would make India proud: PM Modi hails historic 98% turnout in J&K BDC polls | India Today | Oct 25 2019
    Last edited by Double Edge; 25 Oct 19, at 17:46.

  11. #671
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Can't say i've listened to enough hearings to reach the below conclusion but its a fair summary of what happened : (

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    To be filed under American politics 101
    Last edited by Double Edge; 26 Oct 19, at 15:33.

  12. #672
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Have to track these as there's been a couple more attacks on CRPF last month

    Six CRPF men hurt in Srinagar grenade attack | TOI | Oct 27 2019

    On September 28 this year, terrorists had thrown a hand grenade towards a CPRF picket at Nawakadal, in Srinagar's old city. However, no one was injured in that attack.

    On October 5, 14 people, including a traffic policeman, had been injured in a hand grenade attack near the deputy commissioner's office at Ananatnag, south Kashmir.

    In another attack, seven people had been injured when a terrorist threw a hand grenade at pavement vendors in Hari Singh High Street in Srinagar on October 12.

    And on October 13, according to the police, a low-intensity explosion had occurred in an abandoned vehicle at Sheikhpora, in central Kashmir's Budgam.
    As for arrests & kills

    Six terrorists slain in 2 J&K encounters, one a top Hizb man who planned killing of BJP, RSS men | TOI | Sept 28 2019

    4 Hizbul Mujahideen overground workers arrested in Kishtwar | ET | Oct 03 2019

    3 Jaish-e-Mohammed Terrorists Killed By Security Forces In South Kashmir's Tral | Outlook | Oct 22 2019

    Zakir Musa's successor killed in encounter with security forces in Jammu and Kashmir's Awantipora; DGP Dilbag Singh says AGH 'wiped out' | FP | Oct 23 2019

    The Indian Army on Tuesday killed the commander of the Al Qaeda-backed Ansar Ghazwat-ul Hind outfit in an encounter in Jammu and Kashmir's Awantipora. Identified as Abdul Hameed Lelhari, he was Zakir Musa's successor as commander of the terror group in June this year. Along with Lehari, two other terrorists were also killed by security forces.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 27 Oct 19, at 17:21.

  13. #673
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Acceptable workaround by the London Met Police that balances freedom of expression with security for the Indian high commission

    Conditions imposed on Free Kashmir protest | Met Police | Oct 24 2019

    The protest will take place just that the route has been changed and fixed by the police.

    “Hundreds of protests take place each year in London, representing many different causes and views. We understand that this is a significant anniversary date for those protesting, and also recognise this falls on the important Hindu festival of Diwali. My intention on the day will be to balance the rights of those protesting with those who may be affected by it. We will take all necessary steps to prevent crime and disorder.

    “Those attending the demonstrations can expect to see a significant police presence. Taking into account the anticipated number of protestors, and in order to prevent serious disruption, we have imposed pre-event conditions on the Free Kashmir protest under Sections 12 and 14 of the Public Order Act. The assembly and march must start in Parliament Street, process along Whitehall and conclude in Trafalgar Square. These are very iconic London locations, allowing good visibility of the protest, but will avoid the serious disruption that would be caused if roads closer to the High Commission became blocked.”

    Failure to adhere to these conditions may lead to arrest and prosecution. The conditions may be subject to change by the senior officer present – if in doubt please consult a police officer.
    It ends in Trafalagar Square and not at the Indian High commission as initially planned by the protesters.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 27 Oct 19, at 19:59.

  14. #674
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    British Indian Groups Condemn Kashmir Protests in London on Diwali as 'Hinduphobia and Racism' | PTI | Oct 27 2019

    There is this notion going around that the date of the protest was purposely chosen to co-incide with Diwali.

    What PTI should have highlighted is the instrument of accession was signed on Oct 26 1947. That date Oct 26 is considered as 'black day' for the separatists and AJK lot. The day when the land of kashmir was taken away from the muslims and from the people of Kashmir.

    So black day or nearest is the motivation behind the date. They plan to hold another next year on the same date or as close as possible.

    Diwali based on the hindu lunar calendar can fall anywhere from middle October to November. The western calendar is based on the sun.

    So chances are the 5 days of Diwali will shift in the years ahead but if people are still up for it the AJK protests will be held on a fixed date or nearest.

    Watching the protest I did not hear a single anti-hindu slogan. Anti-India, entirely. Anti-modi, plenty. But not anti-hindu. I suppose hate speech laws in the UK are the deterrent.

    One of the MC's mentioned something interesting. They were criticising the Mayor, Sadiq Khan, of Pakistani descent for preventing them from protesting outside the IHC. Some people think because of Sadiq Khan turning a blind eye that the IHC was attacked in the first place. Heh, his allegiance is first to the city of London.

    Numbers that turned up seemed anywhere from two to three thousand. Far from the tens of thousands they were boasting it would attract. Saw a couple of Khalistani flags held by a couple sikhs. The rest of the Khalistanis sat this one out to celebrate Diwali. Saw a couple of red Kashmiri flags even. No JeM ones.

    They started their protest opposite downing street and then marched to Trafalagar Square

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    Indian high commision is half a mile away in Aldywch. Out of ear shot as well as sling shot.

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    They were not allowed to come closer than half a mile to the Indian high commission. Unless something turns up i'm assuming this one was peaceful and well handled by the Met police
    Last edited by Double Edge; 28 Oct 19, at 02:29.

  15. #675
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    What does a Scottish football player do after he retires ? he wants to manage a team.

    Where though ? he ends up in Kashmir and looks after Real Kashmir FC



    This documentary won the BAFTA recently

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