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Thread: Stone pelting a conspiracy by Pakistan and its agents in Kashmir

  1. #586
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Parents won't let their children to go to school because they are afraid they will lose their kids. The shopkeepers open only early in the morning or late at night. At least on the main roads. On side roads inside they stay open longer.

    There was a similar situation in '63 aka Hazratbal incident where a religious relic went missing. It was recovered. The way the govt broke the curfew was to break the locks on the shops. Then all the shopkeepers were forced to return to take care of their shops. Now there was security in numbers. If the terrorists attack any one in such a case it boomerangs back on them.

  2. #587
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Parents won't let their children to go to school because they are afraid they will lose their kids. The shopkeepers open only early in the morning or late at night. At least on the main roads. On side roads inside they stay open longer.

    There was a similar situation in '63 aka Hazratbal incident where a religious relic went missing. It was recovered. The way the govt broke the curfew was to break the locks on the shops. Then all the shopkeepers were forced to return to take care of their shops. Now there was security in numbers. If the terrorists attack any one in such a case it boomerangs back on them.
    Why do I get the feeling that you quoting Abhijit Iyer Mitra from his PGGurus Interview?
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  3. #588
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Why do I get the feeling that you quoting Abhijit Iyer Mitra from his PGGurus Interview?
    Because I was..with some Pandita : )

    Among all the joking that was one pertinent point that connected the dots. Didn't think the interview was focused enough to post here. They went all over the place.

    The key here is outreach. The Paks don't need to resort to bombs they just need to interfere with that outreach long enough that people lose faith in the govt. Just like they defeated previous administrations for three decades now. Which is make GOI look weak and incapable of defending its people. This way the insurgents have an 'in' and retain their hold.

    That's going to be a tough fight. Modi & Shah are politically invested here and will do what it takes.

    Now, does this put them in the same spot as previous administrations ? spending money to buy approval.

    I don't think so. Their approach & outlook is different. For one they will not assist those that oppose us.

    Early days. We don't know how the local politics will shape up over there as yet.

    Will the Abdullahs & Muftis survive or is their time well and truly over ?
    Last edited by Double Edge; 09 Sep 19, at 02:36.

  4. #589
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Praveen Swami

    Kashmir after Article 370: As govt lifts curfew after month, Sopore attack shows citizens face renewed jihadist threat | IE | Sept 08 2019


    The government’s curfew is giving way to a brutal, new crackdown imposed by jihadist groups

    Though the government claims to have reopened hundreds of schools, neither teachers nor students have shown up across the countryside

    Businesses across Kashmir have closed down following the killing of affluent Srinagar wholesale trader

  5. #590
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    No. We messed it up badly. But had the Americans not left those mujahideens alone and on the mercy of the PA & ISI, we wouldn't have had that problem on our border, right? We've been cleaning American shit since 1989. Apart from that, we had to deal with zealots like Robin Raphel, and numerous US_SecOfStates' patronising lectures. We are guilty, very guilty, but it doesn't absolve American administration of that time any bit. And a cursory look at the Government of India then - 2 years down the line (1991), we had to mortgage gold for AID money. See where I am getting at? We didn't have any money. What we did then might be very flawed, but we did the best we could. Yes, we probably have sunk in a couple of billion dollars, and tried appeasement a lot, which the ungratefuls from Kashmir took from Delhi while saying 'Kashmir will become Pakistan'.

    11 months down the line, Soviet Russia broke up into 15 parts. Suddenly, India had nothing. No money. No aid. India was all alone.

    It was at that time India realised that to fulfil its foreign policy goals, a bright economic outlook and an even vibrant diplomacy is needed. We opened up our economy, in parts. India realised that keeping all eggs in 1 (Russian) basket is risky, and we started reaching out.
    The part that gets me is the similarity of approach. Two different powers dealing with the same opponent, making the same wrong choices and failing with consequent mess in both cases. And we were at it a decade longer !!

    Once we manage to normalise things in Kashmir, we should repeat it in Afghanistan.

    This will be yet another flip for the Paks : )


    J-e-I is a terrorist group. They should be in jail, if not targeted by security forces. And India had been countering one group against the other for decades, it's not new. That policy has changed. I told you, something always stinked about Dulat.
    J-e-I aren't terrorists. They're radicals. This is the Pak J-e-I btw. J-e-I Hind has no connection to them whatsoever. The militant wing of the J-e-I is Hizbul mujahideen, they are terrorists and based in PO J&K.

    First the islamic Pakistani terrorists came for Kashmiri Pandits. Next on the list is Shias.
    Didn't stop there, next they policed the sunnis and made sure they stayed in line. So the govt failed all those groups.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 09 Sep 19, at 03:36.

  6. #591
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    They've since corrected the typo : D

    Name:  pak fm.jpg
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  7. #592
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Briefing from Sept 04



    Infiltration continues on a nightly basis but to date unsuccessfully into the valley. Some are caught, some have to return. But there is a major effort on to infiltrate.

    The most peaceful month Kashmir has known in a long time

    11:50 The credibility of Al Jazeera is Zero

  8. #593
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Terrorists trying to instigate people through the barrel of a gun: General Bipin Rawat | TOI | Sept 08 2019

    Referring to the incidents of locals being targeted by terrorists, Rawat said while there were visible signs of peace, a concerted attempt was on to instigate violence. “Terrorists are spreading rumours to malign people and are trying to instigate others through the barrel of a gun. We need soldiers there to remove this threat,” he said.

    Security forces have been on their toes since August 5, trying to stay ahead of what they believe to be a concerted effort to incite violence. The latest was demonstrations and marches on the LoC by the PoK residents — a group of unarmed protestors tried to march towards Indian Army posts in the Nowshera sector on Friday. They were dispersed by carefully placed warning shots.

    Defending communication blockade in the valley, a top officer said: “A large number of propaganda videos produced by Pakistanis have come to light. They are aimed at spreading fear and hatred towards forces.

    In a (fake) video, a family is shown with children ready to go to school. Then the mother is shown holding them as there are soldiers outside… One can hear gunfire in the background.”

  9. #594
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Looks like that protest march from PO J&K to the LoC didn't get very far. The Paks stopped it to prevent our guys shelling them. In the bargain the people started pelting the Paks.

    The idea in that SG article is wrong. The Paks won't let their guys get killed they want people to die on our side. So they stopped their people getting too close.

    22 arrested as pro-independence sit-in continues in Azad Kashmir | Dawn | Sept 09 2019

    Tariq NaqashUpdated September 09, 2019

    MUZAFFARABAD: At least 22 pro-independence activists were taken into custody by the Azad Jammu and Kashmir (AJK) police in Hajira subdivision of Poonch district overnight for alleged rioting while a sit-in continued in Tetrinote village on the second consecutive day on Sunday.

    On Saturday, police had stopped thousands of participants of a “Freedom Long March” called by Sardar Mohammad Saghir-led faction of the Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) in Dawarandi village of the Hajira area, when they were insisting to move ahead towards Tetrinote that lies in the closest proximity of the restive Line of Control (LoC).

    DIG of Poonch Tahir Mehmood Qureshi told Dawn that the decision to stop the marchers was taken in the interest of their safety and that “their leaders had given an undertaking to the administration that they would not go beyond a designated spot to avoid the risk of Indian shelling”.

    However, the marchers disregarded the commitment and insisted to go beyond the designated spot in Dawarandi, the DIG alleged. In the meanwhile, some of the marchers climbed the adjacent mountains and pelted stones on the police.

    The DIG claimed that 12 police personnel were injured, one of them critically, due to stone pelting.

    He admitted that police resorted to tear gas shelling to disperse the marchers, which rendered some of them unconscious for some time. They were rushed to Tehsil Headquarters Hospital, Hajira, for treatment.

    The DIF alleged that four ambulances which the administration had placed on standby were damaged by the activists.

    He said 25 people were taken into custody after midnight, but three of them were released for not being involved in the activity.

    JKLF sources said Sardar Saghir had managed to reach Tetrinote where local activists had set up a sit-in camp on Saturday. The sit-in continued on the second consecutive day on Sunday.

    Speaking to the activists in Tetrinote, Mr Saghir demanded “restoration of the revolutionary government of AJK and Gilgit-Baltistan” that he said was established on October 24, 1947.

    “Pakistan should open the embassy of this government in Islamabad and then get it recognised from all friendly countries so that it may take the reins of freedom movement in its own hands,” he said.

    The JKLF leader condemned the arrest of activists and demanded their immediate and unconditional release.

    Alleging that the detainees had been “mercilessly” tortured by the police, he also called for a judicial probe into it.

    Mr Saghir had given the call for the long march from Rawalakot to Tetrinote and a sit-in for an “indefinite period” in Tetrinote to condemn revocation of India-occupied Kashmir’s special status, imposition of curfew, communication blockade and other repressive measures by India as well as ceasefire violations across the LoC.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 10 Sep 19, at 10:31.

  10. #595
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    With Kashmir Lockdown, India Violates Freedom Of The Press, Advocates Say | NPR | Sept 09 2019

    FRAYER: Anuradha Bhasin is executive editor of the Kashmir Times, which has not been able to print its Srinagar edition since August 5. Curfews mean her workers can't reach the printing presses, which typically operate at night. Bhasin filed a petition to India's Supreme Court, arguing that the lockdown violates freedom of the press. The court has delayed a hearing until October. The Indian government has also blocked foreign journalists, including NPR, from traveling to Kashmir. So, Bhasin says...

    BHASIN: What is appearing in the press worldwide is maybe a very small glimpse.

    FRAYER: A very small glimpse of the protests, clashes and thousands of arrests being reported by Kashmiri journalists - some of them say they, too, have been detained and beaten up by police, who also forced them to erase footage from their devices.

    ALIYA IFTIKHAR: Given that this is the world's largest democracy, that's extremely concerning.
    Thousands ?

    I think Frayer is referring to preventive detention of political figures and their workers. Not common people.

    No figure has been released, its believed to be in the several hundreds. Not thousands. NYT concocted this thousands figure.

    And these are detentions btw not arrests as the NSA qualified. Open to legal challenge.

    Quote Originally Posted by kuku View Post
    The target is information dominance, its more about volume and constant noise than content.
    I don't understand how the social media war between India and Pakistan makes any difference at all, except just polarizing Indian's and Pakistani's.

    This all from India Pakistan online is just noise, no content to it.
    From that NPR report the state has achieved information dominance. Content here includes news services.

    There has not been a single state casualty in over a month since 370. Why ? mobile & internet are off. That means the terrorists rely heavily on it for their agenda. Land lines were restored a couple of weeks ago. Terrorists don't use them.

    There is no tech in the world that can distinguish a terrorist from an innocent in data space.

    During the Gorkha uprising, internet was off for a hundred days.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 11 Sep 19, at 01:51.

  11. #596
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    History. Benazir was quite the screamer.



    The end of the video where he says ..breakdown of the secular fabric of the country.

    I think i understand now why this went on so long. We had to go soft.

    The idea behind pushing the KP's out was to provoke the state into a reprisal. This then would turn the political struggle into a communal one. Have riots go off across the country. This is why you see in the video the local muslims trying to prevent the KP's from leaving because they were afraid of exactly such a reprisal.

    Thing is, we didn't take the bait ; )

    So no Indian muslims ever went to fight in Kashmir and the struggle remained confined there. Stayed political never becoming communal across the country.

    People now are expecting or trying to portray the same thing. Indian state cracking down for 1990. But Modi is playing Santa Claus

    Rs. 80,000 crores($10 bn) PM development fund, 50, 000 govt jobs, 5 medical colleges. Heard he's offered to buy the entire crop of this seasons apples as well.

    There is a reason the internet is down there. Videos such as this are an incitement to violence.

    What is the police doing in this video, dispersing people with tear gas and used pellet guns on some stone pelters. But you really get a sense of impending doom when you watch it. Happened in Soura.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 12 Sep 19, at 05:10.

  12. #597
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Interesting

    India asks China to stop investing in PoK | DH | Sept 10 2019

    India on Tuesday once again asked China to stop investing in areas of Jammu and Kashmir (J&K) currently under illegal occupation of Pakistan.

    New Delhi once again raised the pitch of its protest against the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) – ostensibly in response to Beijing's support to Islamabad to protest the recent decisions of Prime Minister Narendra Modi's government on Jammu and Kashmir (J&K).

    India rejected the reference to J&K in the joint statement issued by China and Pakistan last Sunday – after Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi had a meeting with his counterpart Shah Mahmood Qureshi during a visit to Islamabad. “We reject the reference to Jammu and Kashmir (J&K) in the Joint Statement issued by China and Pakistan after the recent visit of Chinese Foreign Minister. J&K is an integral part of India,” Raveesh Kumar, spokesperson of the Ministry of External Affairs (MEA), said in New Delhi.

    New Delhi reiterated its opposition to the CPEC, which, according to it, was an attempt to change the status quo in J&K areas currently under illegal occupation of Pakistan. The MEA spokesperson underlined that New Delhi had been consistently conveying its concerns to both China and Pakistan on the projects in the CPEC, which passed through India's territory illegally occupied by Pakistan since 1947.

    “India is resolutely opposed to any actions by other countries to change the status quo in Pakistan-occupied J&K. We call on the parties concerned to cease such actions,” said Kumar.

    The CPEC – linking China's Xinjiang Autonomous Region and the port city of Gwadar in southern Pakistan – is one of the flagship projects of the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI), the ambitious cross-continental connectivity project launched by Chinese President Xi Jinping a few years back.

    China has pledged over $ 60 billion to invest in the CPEC.

    The Modi-Xi “informal summit” at Wuhan in central China in April 2018 brought about a thaw in the complex relations between India and China. New Delhi toned down its protest against the CPEC over the past one-and-a-half-years. But with China supporting Pakistan to carry out its diplomatic campaign against the Modi government's recent moves on J&K, New Delhi has decided to raise its pitch again.

    Wang and Qureshi exchanged views on the situation in J&K during their meeting in Islamabad on Saturday. Chinese Foreign Minister also called on Pakistan's President Arif Alvi and Prime Minister Imran Khan apart from holding a meeting with Pakistan Army chief Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa before concluding his visit to Islamabad on Sunday.

    “The Pakistani side briefed the Chinese side on the situation, including its concerns, position, and urgent humanitarian issues,” according to the joint statement China and Pakistan issued on Sunday. “The Chinese side responded that it was paying close attention to the current situation in Jammu and Kashmir and reiterated that the Kashmir issue is a dispute left from history, and should be properly and peacefully resolved based on the UN (United Nations) Charter, relevant UN Security Council resolutions and bilateral agreements. China opposes any unilateral actions that complicate the situation,” it added.

    Islamabad launched a diplomatic campaign against New Delhi soon after Prime Minister Narendra Modi's government on August 5 moved to strip J&K of its special status and reorganized the state into two Union Territories. China too has extended support to Pakistan's renewed bid to once again internationalize its dispute with India over J&K.

    New Delhi has been maintaining that its moves on J&K were "internal affairs" of India.

    Beijing criticized New Delhi's decisions on Kashmir – not only to express solidarity with its “all-weather ally” Islamabad but also because the communist country perceived India's moves to “unilaterally” change changing its domestic law as the ones that undermined territorial sovereignty of China.

    What had irked Beijing was Modi government's reiteration that just as the entire J&K state had remained an integral part of India, the two new UTs too would include, not only India's territory under illegal occupation of Pakistan, but also areas Pakistan had illegally ceded to China in 1963 as well as the Aksai Chin territory, which both India and China claim as their own.

    Wang was expected to travel to India from Pakistan too for holding negotiations on disputed China-India boundary with Modi's National Security Advisor Ajit Doval. New Delhi, however, asked Beijing to postpone the visit, as it anticipated that Pakistan might use the visit of Chinese Foreign Minister to step up its campaign against India.

  13. #598
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Two part discussion a week back over at CPR on the subject



    Saran makes the interesting point that if Pakistan never accepted the Instrument of Accession of which 370 then stems from why then do they object to the abrogation of 370 : )

    He also points out the mismatch between rhetoric & posture wrt to PO J&K. There are 114 seats in the J&K Assembly. 24 are empty and reserved for the people of PO J&K. Are we reaching out to these people ? if not then talk about getting back PO J&K is just hot air.

  14. #599
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Best show in town for a few weeks now is in Soura



    What is so special about this upscale part of Srinagar ?

    Upscale Srinagar neighbourhood in viral BBC video is the new protest hub on Article 370 | The Print | Aug 13 2019

    “People here know politics (siyasat) too well to not know what is happening,” said college student Rifat Amin. “Have we not seen settler colonies in Palestine? Haven’t their lands been stolen and homes bulldozed? If they want to make Kashmir a second Palestine, then let them do what they want. We will do what we have to.”

    The sentiment is shared by not only an overwhelming number of people in Soura but also in major parts of Srinagar. Not only has the abrogation and subsequent clampdown made people feel completely cornered, they also sense a stifling of their religious rights.
    We get an idea of the fear psychosis going on here. The Pals don't have a country. These people do. It's a lot bigger than they think.

    “To protect Kashmir, we can and we will pay with our lives,” a protester named Shabir Dar told ThePrint. “If the Modi government thinks they can get away by taking away what is dear to us, our identity, then we are ready to extinguish our entire existence while fighting.”

    He added that the seed for the “movement” had been sown in Soura. “With time, you will see it spread everywhere,” he said.
    Pandita asked people what they meant by "identity" and didn't get very clear answers. All these doubts will be cleared with time. So I doubt it will spread "everywhere".
    Last edited by Double Edge; 12 Sep 19, at 05:07.

  15. #600
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Pakistan is winning the propaganda war. India is not even using the truth to push its narrative. 5th columnists do not need content. They create content as they see fit.
    We are now, check this out. Daily every day on DD at 6pm

    Last edited by Double Edge; 12 Sep 19, at 09:29.

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