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Thread: Stone pelting a conspiracy by Pakistan and its agents in Kashmir

  1. #391
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    IB greasing palms-part is correct. But, why would the BJP mollycoddle these people (Shehla/Faesal), after scrapping Article 370, 35A? Right now, I am confused. The dude that wrote that article, has no other articles to his credit in Medium.

    But are Faesal and Shehla really being planted by the BJP? If that is the case, then a long term planning has been done in the 1st term of the BJP government. That the BJP would scrap those articles that hinder development of the state, and make it a breeding ground for terrorists. There would be uprisings, and it is this moment that Faesal comes over and tells the Kashmiri crowd - look fellas', you've had enough of the Muftis, the Abdullahs, the Lones.....now it's me. Faesal takes over, develops the union territory, locals start trusting him. You get the drift.
    Harbir slams Modi if its true but i got it the other way.

    How much credibility will either Rashid or Faesal have if they are perceived as BJP stooges. It discredits them both more than anything.

    Modi has his mandate and is sitting comfy.

    After the Najibullah government fell, we'd try to talk with the Taliban. The Taliban would try to talk to us. But ISI eyes were everywhere. I guess this time around we're talking.
    Going on what Bharat said. informed speculation maybe. Nobody knows.

    RAW is so damn good at their job that nobody ever finds out. Maybe because half of the time they ain't doing anything : D

  2. #392
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    I like this Arif guy, does not mince his words.

    Like Haqqani, enlightenment only strikes when outside and far away from Pakistan.
    I don't really understand if you're criticizing them. But why will a family man risk his life and limb, and that of his family, and speak-out inside Pakistan. I wouldn't. These are people that we need to focus on, shed the bania mentality and spend some money too.
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  3. #393
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Harbir slams Modi if its true but i got it the other way.

    How much credibility will either Rashid or Faesal have if they are perceived as BJP stooges. It discredits them both more than anything.

    Modi has his mandate and is sitting comfy.

    Going on what Bharat said. informed speculation maybe. Nobody knows.

    RAW is so damn good at their job that nobody ever finds out. Maybe because half of the time they ain't doing anything : D
    Maybe this time, R&AW did this job, and not IB. In time, we'll find out.
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  4. #394
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    6 LeT terrorists enter Tamil Nadu through Sri Lanka, photos of 2 suspects released

    An alert has been issued in Coimbatore, Tamil Nadu after a group of six Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) terrorists have entered Tamil Nadu through Sri Lanka, according to an intel report.

    The alert, which has been issued in the city, says that the group consists of one Pakistan national and five Sri Lankan Tamils.

    Based on this alert, Chennai has also increased it patrolling forces.

    The Coimbatore city police has released photographs of two possible suspects who have intruded Tamil Nadu.

    The Chennai Commissioner of Police has said that based on this alert, patrolling forces have been increased and necessary precautions have been put in place.

    The DGP has instructed that in the entire state, storming operations should be conducted which include:

    - Lodge checks
    - Vehicle check for explosives and arms
    - Intensification of patrols and checking
    - Checking of guards at sensitive/critical installations
    - Keeping a look out for miscreants
    - Preventive arrests of bad characters
    - Checking at railway stations, bus stands and airports
    - Checking of guards and TPF in temples

    Earlier, intelligence reports had suggested that Pakistan was planning to deploy Afghan terrorists in Kashmir.

    After the abrogation of Article 370 in Jammu and Kashmir, intelligence reports suggested that these terrorists are ready to infiltrate Kashmir from terror launchpads in Pakistan occupied Kashmir (PoK).
    Navy on high alert after reports of 6 Lashkar terrorists presence in Tamil Nadu

    Why is the Navy on alert? Isn't it the Coast Guard's job?
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  5. #395
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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  6. #396
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Remember Ahmad Khan who died on the LoC, due to Indian retaliation.

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    It seems not only terrorists inside India, but life of PA troops along the LoC is on short notice. 1 less ghazi.
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  7. #397
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Kashmir handled well so far, but return of normalcy depends on Pakistan

    On August 5, the day the Narendra Modi government surprised everyone with its show of audacity on Jammu and Kashmir, there was a nagging fear in the minds of Indians that reactions in the Kashmir Valley would be fierce and possibly violent. More than a fortnight later, and despite the concern over the patchy telephone communications and other restrictions on normal life in the epicentres of separatism, there is relief that violence has been minimal and lives have not been lost. While there have been stray incidents of stone throwing in the Valley, reports of firing and cluster bombs have been fake.

    Undeniably, there are restrictions on democratic rights in the region but considering the magnitude of a project that upturned a 70-year-old consensus, the temporary pain has been accepted with equanimity by the Indian people. Reassuringly, the stupendous national support for the revocation of J&K’s special status has not prevented opponents of the move from protesting publicly and in the media. The credentials of India as a vibrant democracy have been unaffected. Domestically, the Modi government has won admiration for undertaking this major political initiative with meticulous planning, including at the diplomatic level.

    The success in managing the immediate fallout of the changes in J&K does not, however, imply that the future will be without hiccups. The Kashmiri leaders who are under preventive detention will, sooner or later, have to be set free to resume their political life. How they will respond to the new situation is still a big question mark. Equally, it is naïve to believe that the separatists will suddenly be cowed down. It is more likely that there will be a temporary retreat, until such time as the security bandobast is less intrusive. However, there is some way to go before terrorism ceases to be a problem in J&K.

    The return of normalcy in J&K is almost certain to be linked to how Pakistan reacts to a move that has left it both furious and disoriented. Judging from the speeches in the joint session of Pakistan’s parliament on August 6, there were broadly three reactions, all linked by the common commitment to stand united behind the Muslims of Kashmir.

    First, were those angry politicians who saw the “Hindu annexation” of J&K as an affront to the global community of Muslims. Comparing the Modi government’s action with the Israeli takeover of Palestine, they committed themselves to total support for the separatists in J&K, regardless of what America thought and irrespective of whether the economy of Pakistan could sustain such a jang. These were variants of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto’s we-will-eat-grass posturing after the loss of East Pakistan in 1971.

    Secondly, there were a few that coupled support to the Kashmiri struggle with the admission that Pakistan didn’t count much globally because it lacked capacity. In effect conceding that Modi had got the upper hand, they suggested that Pakistan must first strengthen itself economically and on that basis craft an independent foreign policy.

    Finally, there was the official position articulated by Prime Minister Imran Khan’s dissection of the Modi government. Describing the BJP government as “racist” and “Hindu supremacist”, he held that India’s political thrust was to reduce all Muslims to a subordinate role in the country. He claimed that events in J&K vindicated Jinnah’s belief in the two-nation theory. No meaningful dialogue, he suggested, was really possible with such a regressive mindset.

    Beyond supporting self-determination in J&K, Imran didn’t spell out Pakistan’s other options. However, certain key strands are apparent from his speech. First, there was a significant shift from stressing Kashmir’s cultural autonomy to emphasising the importance of a Muslim upsurge — in alliance with all those whose who wanted to restore the secular state in India — against Hindu racism. This was elaborated by other speakers who argued that the insurgency in J&K had to be joined by Muslims in other parts of India. Second, Imran advocated a massive outreach programme in the West to show up India as a pariah regime, in the same way as Israel is in Left-liberal circles.

    Going by the churning in Pakistan, it is likely that separatism in J&K is likely to acquire a more explicitly Muslim dimension. Additionally, there is likely to be a greater Pakistani outreach to Muslims in the rest of the country. Along with Muslims, its potential allies will include other “useful idiots”.

    The message from Islamabad is clear: the whole of India is now a target, as is its domestic politics. The implications are profound but best left unstated.
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  8. #398
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    I don't really understand if you're criticizing them. But why will a family man risk his life and limb, and that of his family, and speak-out inside Pakistan. I wouldn't. These are people that we need to focus on, shed the bania mentality and spend some money too.
    It' a complaint. Not able to criticise. Going by the amount of Indians supporting this guy like Haqqani.

    Maybe they can be an inspiration for their people back home. More will join their ranks.

  9. #399
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    GOI whether Congress or BJP rejects reports like this based on some arbitrary framework.

    Applying Prof. Barbara Harff’s risk factors for genocide, the following are early warnings of massacres in Kashmir:

    1. Prior genocidal massacres and continuing impunity for such killings;

    2. Continued armed conflict between India and Pakistan over border areas in Kashmir;

    3. An exclusionary ideology of “Hindutva” – India as Hindu nation – by Modi’s ruling BJP;

    4. Authoritarian military rule without legal restraints imposed by civilian Indian officials;

    5. Rule by a minority military force (Hindus and Sikhs) over majority Muslim citizens;

    6. Cut-off of communications and outside access by internet, media, and trade;

    7. Widespread violations of basic human rights – torture, rape, 2-year detentions without charge, arbitrary arrests and deportations of Muslim political and human rights leaders.
    One metric we can use to judge post 370 from pre 370 is how the law & order situation changes.

    Will it get better, remain the same or become worse ?

    This is a something the govt will be held to account for. I'm betting it will improve. What then will be said about this exclusionary Hindutva.


    Genocide Watch’s Ten Stages of the genocidal process are also far advanced:

    1. Classification: Hindu and Sikh Indian Army “us” vs. Kashmiri Muslim civilian “them;”

    2. Symbolization: Muslims have Muslim names (on ID cards), Kashmiri language, dress, mosques;

    3. Discrimination: Hindu pandits were economically dominant until 1990; BJP reasserted Hindu power;

    4. Dehumanization: Muslims are called “terrorists”, “separatists,” “criminals,” “insurgents;”

    5. Organization: 600,000 heavily armed Indian Army troops and police dominate Kashmir;

    6. Polarization: Modi and the BJP incite anti-Muslim hatred; social media spread falsehoods;

    7. Preparation: The Indian Army occupies Kashmir; BJP leaders speak of the “Final Solution” for Kashmir;

    8. Persecution: Kashmiri Muslims are locked down, subject to arrest, torture, rape, and murder;

    9: Extermination: Genocidal massacres occurred during Partition; since 1990, there have been at least 25 massacres with death tolls over 25: 10 of Muslims by Indian troops; 15 of Hindus by Muslim militants;

    10. Denial: Modi and BJP say their goals are to “bring prosperity” and “end terrorism”; they deny any massacres. No Indian Army troops or police are ever tried for torture, rape or murder. Modi’s takeover is popular in India.
    What surprises me is their definition for genoicide is as low as 25. If its any consolation the militants to date have killed more Hindus than Indian troops have killed muslims.

    Bunching stats like that over thirty years isn't giving a meaningful picture. Ignores periods where insurgency was low. The high numbers are when insurgency was at its peak, or the 90s that is when most of these killings would have occurred.

    600k number is iffy. Troops amount to arouud 160k. You mean to tell me we have three times as many police there ? i don't believe that.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 25 Aug 19, at 14:02.

  10. #400
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    I asked if that's a credible website? Smells of fake news.
    Last edited by Oracle; 25 Aug 19, at 13:56.
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  11. #401
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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  12. #402
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Pak is doomed to fail

    Two speeches on near similar Independence Day’s displayed the stark contrast in vision between India and Pakistan. Imran Khan, whose speeches must have been dictated by his army chief only harped on Kashmir, India and hatred. He dedicated his speech to Indian actions in Kashmir and included threat of war, ethnic cleansing and counter strikes to terrorist attacks on Indian soil. He has continued this rant till date including on social media.

    There was not one word on pulling Pak out of its economic mess, managing its rising inflation and high unemployment figures. It was as if these were normal and expected in the nation. There was no effort to explain the performance of the Government and what he hoped to achieve in the coming year.

    This despite the nation facing its worst economic crises in decades and being forced to beg from anyone,while foreign exchange reserves remain on the brink of collapse. Every other time he has spoken, he has been accusing earlier Governments for the mess and him alone attempting to solve it.

    His speech was simply diverting minds of his gullible public, making them believe that the Pak army and nation has just one goal, amalgamation of Kashmir, despite Pak being even unable to cater for the needs of its current population. It was a speech dictated by the deep state, aimed at justifying the army’s budget and power and that it would never accept any dissent.

    With every action targeting Kashmir in recent days, Pak was desperately seeking to recreate an anti-India feeling within the nation. While it kept projecting hate against India on one hand, it continued to mention talks on the other. Regular mention of imminent war was aimed at enhancing the standing of the army, which has only been facing setbacks on every front, LoC, Baluchistan and against the Pakistan Taliban.

    There was no mention of curbing terrorism which is what has placed the country on the brink of collapse and the FATF blacklist looming large.
    Imran appeared to have no choice but to back the army as he is ‘selected’. His reiterating Indian threats appeared to bind a nation fractured by poverty, rising inflation, curbs on press, arrests of top opposition politicians and unemployment.His insistence on adopting the diplomatic route to counter India was because the army had stated its lack of preparedness and shortfalls in capabilities.

    It has been highlighting even small words of praise as a major victory. The closed-door discussion in the UN, which India did not even refer to has been projected as a victory. Clearly, desperate measures to cool growing internal tempers.

    On the other hand, Modi in his sixth consecutive speech from the ramparts of the Red Fort never mentioned Pak. He spoke of the need for amalgamating the nation, justifying his actions of removing Article 370, development, population growth and multiple other aspects. The intention was to brief the nation on actions taken by his Government and his plans for the nation’s future. Pak and its rantings were ignored. There was no mention of war or any threats from Pak.

    The only indirect reference to Pakistan was the impact in the neighbourhood by nations employing terrorism as a part of state policy. He stated the government’s position, which was to expose such nations, though he never mentioned Pak by name. There was no statement of striking back with force to terrorist misadventures by Pak. On the contrary, he spoke of Afghanistan and stated, ‘Afghanistan is a good neighbour of India, and I wish the country for celebrating 100 years of independence this year.’

    The two speeches indicate the difference in maturity and thinking of two leaders as also the difference in outlook between the nations. India is looking forward to development while Pakistan continues to harp on enmity and hatred. India seeks to bring its population out of poverty and concentrate on aspects which impinge on it becoming an economic power, while Pakistan seeks to compel the nation to continue accepting suffering while power amongst a few enhances and the military continues to exploit the limited funds available to Pak.

    India seeks its rightful place in the world and thus attempts to reach a USD 5 Trillion economy in the next five years, while Pak struggles to manage its balance of payments. India seeks to remove issues which trouble its population, while Pakistan asks its population to accept sufferings and poverty only because Indian threats loom large.

    For India, Pakistan and its rantings remain a pinprick, which it ignores. For Pak, everything is linked to India. It cannot think beyond India. The suffering of its population, its water shortages and even its dwindling economy are all linked to India. For Pak, India is the end of all its troubles.

    In this scenario, can Pak ever grow as a nation. Can it ever improve the plight of its population? Very unlikely. Unless the nation has leaders with a vision, who can see and think beyond their nose, look beyond just war and threats, they will continue to be ignored and struggle to survive.

    In the present environment, where the army ‘selects’ the Prime Minister and his cohorts and those who challenge are placed behind bars, nothing can ever change. The nation will only preach its population to continue suffering, while the army top hierarchy will gain more power and push the nation downhill.

    The future of Pak will remain bleak, its population will continue to suffer unless the fake outlook of the deep state is exposed. This, in a nation, where there is no freedom of expression, human rights are suppressed and bloggers and media personnel forced into oblivion, can never happen.Hence, Pak is doomed to fail.

    The author is Major General (Retd)
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  13. #403
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    I asked if that's a credible website? Smells of fake news.
    Says they were founded in 1999. Credible to whom is the question ?

    I would not say its fake. They have an opinion.

    They set the bar very low.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 25 Aug 19, at 14:20.

  14. #404
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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  15. #405
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    It' a complaint. Not able to criticise. Going by the amount of Indians supporting this guy like Haqqani.

    Maybe they can be an inspiration for their people back home. More will join their ranks.
    Actually, there are a lot of Pakistanis that criticize the Pakistan Army. We just to have dig those up. 90% of those reside outside Pakistan.
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