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Thread: Stone pelting a conspiracy by Pakistan and its agents in Kashmir

  1. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    This is generalisation. For every Kashmiri wanting freedom, 3 want to stay with India. For they know how Kashmiris are treated across the border in PoK and G-B. Our security forces kill those Pakistani terrorists exactly because intel comes from those Kashmiris loyal to India. An independent Kashmir is a myth and every single Kashmiri knows that, because Pak+China combine will gobble it up. If all Kashmiris want freedom why are Kashmiris lining up to join the state police, security forces, army? How many native Kashmiris pick up guns on our side of the border? Sir, as of today, Kashmiris from PoK who have migrated to countries such as the US, UK etc are speaking up against the PA. Videos are on youtube.
    You're acting as if this is a done deal forever. You're missing the point about Chechnya, Tibet, Basque, and Quebec. These regions at one time or another were happy with being part of Greater Russia, China, Spain, and Canada and yet, ramblings about independence never ceased.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Going by what our PM does out of the blue, 10 heads are on the cards in the near future. We're taking 5 heads on the LoC as of now. 300 is a bit much, considering our economy, but that's not impossible. Your ally, US, will help us achieve that. In the meanwhile, what I think is best is to firebomb the PA on the LoC/IB, and wait for their economy to sink even further.
    You missed the 300 head reference. It was Genghis Khan's conquest of Afghanistan. Uprisings galore in the region pissed off Genghis so much that he ordered genocide. That is he ordered every man, woman, and child to be butchered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Tibet is never going to be liberated, unless the CPC falls. On the same note, Kashmir stays with us unless India falls. If PA doesn't mend its ways, they will lose PoK, one border post at a time. Tibet and Kashmir's strategic importance makes it all the more important for these part of lands to hold onto by respective countries.
    Tibet was part of China long before even Marx was borned. The point here is that nothing you do today will ever turn Kashmiris into the majority Hindu.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    This is WIP. India just abrogated Article 370 & 35A. Let development takes place. I'd assume another 10 years for the fringe Kashmiris to accept that it is better to study and get a job in India, then pick up a gun and do jihad on PA's bidding. But if that fails, sorry, the land is far too important. We've already had a British imagined, created and planned partition between Hindu and Muslims lines. That 2 nation theory failed in 1971. Not again. Kashmiris in India have enough freedom to migrate to Pakistan or anywhere else they want, the land stays with India.
    Get ready for rounds and rounds of referendums of which Dehli would offer more and more bribes ... to the point where the majority of the population would get fed up and say to the Kashmiris, ok, go, get lost, get your independence, we're sick of giving you everything.

    Then ... somehow, the Kashmiris would sabotage their own referumdum ... and blame it on the majority India ... to keep their ongoing bribes ... until the next extortion/referemdum comes around.

  2. #377
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    How does internationalising Kashmir though terrorist attacks help the Pakistan Army? These illiterate madrasah educated rent seeking army has lost their collective mind.
    I'm baffled by that question as well. The author just throws it in there without explaining

    Knocking on doors abroad does it.

    Rallying people abroad to join the fight. That did happen to a certain extent in the 90s. There was this story i posted of this BT guy from the UK hopping on a plane to fight in Kashmir on the weekend and flying back a few days later. That won't happen these days.

  3. #378
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Taqi does a good job describing domestic affairs

    These are the parts i paid attention to

    No doubt, that the US and allies would need to support the Afghan state and security apparatus in the foreseeable future, but that would be at a massively reduced cost in the event of a withdrawal. To achieve that objective, the US need not throw the Afghans under the Pak-Taliban bus. The report itself identifies the support model deployed by the erstwhile Soviet Union after its 1989 withdrawal, which helped the Afghan government to fend off the adversaries for nearly three years and faltered only after the collapse of the USSR.

    Unlike the cash-strapped Soviets, the US can easily support the Afghan state and the people, who are already fighting the jihadist terror. The US planners need to consider that Pakistan and its Taliban proxies are in it for the long haul and willing to wait them out, as Bajwa’s extension and his doctrine indicates.
    Good stuff. He is arguing against what Chris Fair recently said at a talk in Oz i linked here some days ago.

    She said the Americans are going to throw the Afghans under a bus and run them over a couple of times.


    While some have suggested that Pakistan may divert some of the jihadist proxies from Afghanistan towards Kashmir, it is highly unlikely. Even at the height of its hegemony in the Taliban era, Pakistan used Afghanistan for training its India-oriented jihadist. Deployment of the Afghan Taliban even to Kashmir was unheard of then.
    Oh wow! so directly contradicting our intel inputs

    General Hasnain has obliquely confirmed this. Afghans know Afghanistan. Not Kashmir.

    Why then would they be used in Kashmir. Who put this idea out because its been going for a long time and i don't even think to question it until i see this para here !!

    However, faced with blacklisting by the FATF, which would also have a bearing on the IMF loans, Pakistan would not be able to prosecute jihadism ad libitum, in the early part of Bajwa’s next phase.
    This is why an attack, i'd have thought, won't be forthcoming so soon.

    That is not to say that something like the Mumbai attacks, is completely off the table. The developments since Uri and Pulwama have also forced Pakistan to recalibrate its escalation grid and rethink flaunting nukes at the drop of a hat. The country’s diplomatic isolation under the Bajwa-Imran clique is worsening that not even the Arab Islamic countries have come out in its support after India virtually annexed Kashmir. In fact, the United Arab Emirates has feted Modi.
    In other words, Patience. When the time is right and it sure as hell ain't right now.

    Why does it have to be kinetic. Same old boring low tech.

    If you want to know what protests of the future look like see HK.

    Mostly peaceful, flash mobs, self organising without a leader and able to continue for weeks into months. Internet connection required.

    Deng promised one country, two systems. In a manner of speaking so did we.

    Xi wants to end it gradually. We did it in one fell swoop.

    The fundamental difference is people in HK stand to lose in the future whatever freedoms they were accustomed to.

    Not so the case here. I'd think the numbers out on the streets will be lower and won't keep at it in such a determined manner as HK.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 24 Aug 19, at 22:01.

  4. #379
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Some one for Tronic to listen to

  5. #380
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Attachment 47973

    DE, your Medium article is being questioned.
    She implicitly accepts the part about Dulat is true but not what came after ? that is the problem

    Sood would be authoritative here but will he say anything ?

    You read it. What do you think.

    I'm not familiar with the author but didn't see anything wrong there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Should India open communication channels with the Taliban? The better question would be, is India talking to the Taliban? Taliban = Pashtuns. Taliban follow Deobandi Islam (originated in India), have never attacked India. Pashtuns claim Pashtunistan on both sides of the Durand line. So...???
    I'd like to think our intel people are on it already. The Taliban has factions. We should be cultivating those that are open to us.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 25 Aug 19, at 01:20.

  6. #381
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    You're acting as if this is a done deal forever. You're missing the point about Chechnya, Tibet, Basque, and Quebec. These regions at one time or another were happy with being part of Greater Russia, China, Spain, and Canada and yet, ramblings about independence never ceased.
    That is ok. Whether we can improve the security situation there so things can be normalised.

    There are odd bombings by Basque separatists in Spain but when have the Quebecois done that. Quebec would be great place to be compared to where we are today.

    Tibet was part of China long before even Marx was borned. The point here is that nothing you do today will ever turn Kashmiris into the majority Hindu.
    We've dealt with other areas of the country with similar secessionist tendencies. Some are stable, others are still work in progress.

    Get ready for rounds and rounds of referendums of which Dehli would offer more and more bribes ... to the point where the majority of the population would get fed up and say to the Kashmiris, ok, go, get lost, get your independence, we're sick of giving you everything.
    I'd contend that is the reason that the 370 decision faced little opposition. People were questioning why with all the largesse bestowed nothing seemed to improve. Do some thing. Any thing.

    Then ... somehow, the Kashmiris would sabotage their own referumdum ... and blame it on the majority India ... to keep their ongoing bribes ... until the next extortion/referemdum comes around.
    According to the two articles posted earlier this seems to have been the game earlier. The bribes kept coming to the extent they corrupted even the people handing them out.

    Whether it will be the same plot again with different actors ? i hope not.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 25 Aug 19, at 02:05.

  7. #382
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    You post a lot from twitter can you link the screen shot to the actual tweet as i do? It makes getting to the tweet easier for every one.
    How to do that?

    Kashmiri violence on the Indian state isn't as powerful as Indian state violence on Kashmiris.

    A tet is out. An intifada takes too long and requires coordination

    A tianamen or jallian walla bagh however....some way to provoke the state and force an error.

    Mass rallies or demonstrations, then fire some shots and get the police or solders to fire into the crowd. Have cameras ready. Easier said than done perhaps.

    Best way to turn a non communal agitation into one in India is to portray Indian state violence on Kashmiris. Then the opposition will have a go at the govt and others as well. Govt is on the defensive. Helps getting others to condemn India as well.

    This is a bigger bonus than attacking India via proxies which everybody knows comes from there.

    Why do something we are expecting, they should be doing something we don't expect.

    Now what can that be.
    Pakistan Army is known for making strategic blunders. My assumptions are based on their cheat sheet for the last 72 years.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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  8. #383
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    How to do that?
    Same way you link articles.

    Once the attachment is complete. Highlight it and click the link button and enter the tweet link in the box

    eg.
    {ATTACH}12345{/ATTACH}

    {URL="http://somewhere"}{ATTACH}12345{/ATTACH}{/URL}

    Replace the curly brackets with square brackets

    Pakistan Army is known for making strategic blunders. My assumptions are based on their cheat sheet for the last 72 years.
    Always a possibility
    Last edited by Double Edge; 25 Aug 19, at 02:11.

  9. #384
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    You're acting as if this is a done deal forever. You're missing the point about Chechnya, Tibet, Basque, and Quebec. These regions at one time or another were happy with being part of Greater Russia, China, Spain, and Canada and yet, ramblings about independence never ceased.
    Hmmmmm. Okay another scenario. What if Pakistan breaks-up in say another 5-10 years? What then? Apart from refugees at the border, civil war inside Pakistan etc, Paks claim to Kashmir will be gone.

    You missed the 300 head reference. It was Genghis Khan's conquest of Afghanistan. Uprisings galore in the region pissed off Genghis so much that he ordered genocide. That is he ordered every man, woman, and child to be butchered.
    This is what the PA has been doing in Kashmir for decades. As far as the GoI is concerned, this cannot be done, and I am against it. I doubt India even has the intention of having concentrations camps like China does in Xinjiang. This is something time will unravel what India does.

    Tibet was part of China long before even Marx was borned. The point here is that nothing you do today will ever turn Kashmiris into the majority Hindu.
    Turning Kashmir into a Hindu majority territory wasn't why Article 370 & 35A were scrapped. But since you gave this comment, all of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh were ancient Hindu lands. Islam came after, and muslims even later to the sub-continent.

    Get ready for rounds and rounds of referendums of which Dehli would offer more and more bribes ... to the point where the majority of the population would get fed up and say to the Kashmiris, ok, go, get lost, get your independence, we're sick of giving you everything.

    Then ... somehow, the Kashmiris would sabotage their own referumdum ... and blame it on the majority India ... to keep their ongoing bribes ... until the next extortion/referemdum comes around.
    This is what the incumbent government is trying to fix. I don't know their game yet.
    Last edited by Oracle; 25 Aug 19, at 03:51.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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  10. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Taqi does a good job describing domestic affairs

    These are the parts i paid attention to

    Good stuff. He is arguing against what Chris Fair recently said at a talk in Oz i linked here some days ago.

    She said the Americans are going to throw the Afghans under a bus and run them over a couple of times.
    She gets her information from Alice Wells. Look, it is still early to assume what happens after the American exit in Afghanistan. Even if the US keeps a presence, bombings would continue, which is not what the PA wants. The PA wants an open field with no opposition. Then there is the TTP. A host of other terrorist groups would be created as suited to the PA's interests in Afghanistan. It's a mess. I sometimes wonder what happened to the planners in Pentagon before they started the WoT. They were so furious to unleash hell on Afghanistan, that they made a deal with the devil (PA) to use its land to support their troops. It's a complete failure.

    Oh wow! so directly contradicting our intel inputs

    General Hasnain has obliquely confirmed this. Afghans know Afghanistan. Not Kashmir.

    Why then would they be used in Kashmir. Who put this idea out because its been going for a long time and i don't even think to question it until i see this para here !!
    People and journalists take intransigence from past examples. It can be a planted rumour. Maybe it's true. But, Kashmir is not Afghanistan. Afghanistan is the graveyard of 2 empires. Kashmir is the graveyard of the Pakistan Army.

    This is why an attack, i'd have thought, won't be forthcoming so soon.
    PA is trying to infiltrate terrorists under cover fire at the LoC. PA's BAT teams are trying to sneak into Indian territory and kill our soldiers. These are also attacks.

    In other words, Patience. When the time is right and it sure as hell ain't right now.

    Why does it have to be kinetic. Same old boring low tech.

    If you want to know what protests of the future look like see HK.

    Mostly peaceful, flash mobs, self organising without a leader and able to continue for weeks into months. Internet connection required.

    Deng promised one country, two systems. In a manner of speaking so did we.

    Xi wants to end it gradually. We did it in one fell swoop.

    The fundamental difference is people in HK stand to lose in the future whatever freedoms they were accustomed to.

    Not so the case here. I'd think the numbers out on the streets will be lower and won't keep at it in such a determined manner as HK.
    This is the difference between literate HKers, and rabid-lunatic-fringe-islamic puppets of the PA. China has it's troops and tanks ready at Shenzhen. As I said before, one picks up a gun against the state, it's game over for him. Bullets are cheap, so does life of people who support the PA.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

  11. #386
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    She implicitly accepts the part about Dulat is true but not what came after ? that is the problem

    Sood would be authoritative here but will he say anything ?

    You read it. What do you think.

    I'm not familiar with the author but didn't see anything wrong there.
    IB greasing palms-part is correct. But, why would the BJP mollycoddle these people (Shehla/Faesal), after scrapping Article 370, 35A? Right now, I am confused. The dude that wrote that article, has no other articles to his credit in Medium.

    But are Faesal and Shehla really being planted by the BJP? If that is the case, then a long term planning has been done in the 1st term of the BJP government. That the BJP would scrap those articles that hinder development of the state, and make it a breeding ground for terrorists. There would be uprisings, and it is this moment that Faesal comes over and tells the Kashmiri crowd - look fellas', you've had enough of the Muftis, the Abdullahs, the Lones.....now it's me. Faesal takes over, develops the union territory, locals start trusting him. You get the drift.

    I'd like to think our intel people are on it already. The Taliban has factions. We should be cultivating those that are open to us.
    After the Najibullah government fell, we'd try to talk with the Taliban. The Taliban would try to talk to us. But ISI eyes were everywhere. I guess this time around we're talking.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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  12. #387
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Same way you link articles.

    Once the attachment is complete. Highlight it and click the link button and enter the tweet link in the box

    eg.
    {ATTACH}12345{/ATTACH}

    {URL="http://somewhere"}{ATTACH}12345{/ATTACH}{/URL}

    Replace the curly brackets with square brackets
    Testing.

    Name:  testing.png
Views: 12
Size:  138.9 KB

    It worked. Thank you.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

  13. #388
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    She gets her information from Alice Wells. Look, it is still early to assume what happens after the American exit in Afghanistan. Even if the US keeps a presence, bombings would continue, which is not what the PA wants. The PA wants an open field with no opposition. Then there is the TTP. A host of other terrorist groups would be created as suited to the PA's interests in Afghanistan. It's a mess. I sometimes wonder what happened to the planners in Pentagon before they started the WoT. They were so furious to unleash hell on Afghanistan, that they made a deal with the devil (PA) to use its land to support their troops. It's a complete failure.
    The point is if the funds flow then the Afghan army is well capable of defending themselves. The tricky part is the Taliban want positions without standing for office. So whatever elections there are will be for positions they don't want and its debatable whether others will either.

    Tings will become more clear next month.


    People and journalists take intransigence from past examples. It can be a planted rumour. Maybe it's true. But, Kashmir is not Afghanistan. Afghanistan is the graveyard of 2 empires. Kashmir is the graveyard of the Pakistan Army.
    Taqi is outright saying no Afghans were used in Kashmir. Not even in the 90s.

    Imran says he has 40,000 ready to come over.

    Who needs Afghans then. Paks have enough people to throw at us.

    People make the connection that since the Taliban were good enough to fight the superpowers then why not India. And who will push this idea. Paks. Not Indians.

    The part they miss is Afghans ain't fighting India in Afghanistan : )

    They will have to fight with us having the home advantage. Ain't happening.

    Remains to be seen how much they even listen to the Paks once they get what they want in Afghanistan.

    PA is trying to infiltrate terrorists under cover fire at the LoC. PA's BAT teams are trying to sneak into Indian territory and kill our soldiers. These are also attacks.
    I'm referring to high intensity blasts of a kind that will trigger a kinetic response. What Imran warns the world about.

    LoC has been going on for years now. Sometimes it spikes but otherwise its background noise nowadays.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 25 Aug 19, at 03:10.

  14. #389
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Genocide Watch issues alert for Occupied Kashmir

    https://www.genocidewatch.com/ -> is this a credible website?

    Also, what about -> jihadwatch.org
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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  15. #390
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Testing.

    Name:  testing.png
Views: 12
Size:  138.9 KB

    It worked. Thank you.
    I like this Arif guy, does not mince his words.

    Like Haqqani, enlightenment only strikes when outside and far away from Pakistan.

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