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  • citanon,

    Setting aside the illogicality of requiring two entirely different categories of spending to be equal, how is that actually different from sequestration other than just saying, spend away, spend everything?
    the cuts on it were also equal, and equally ludicrous. the whole point of sequestration was to be so bad for both sides that they'd -have- to come to an agreement. that didn't work out. sequestration wasn't -designed- to be a proper deficit cutting mechanism.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    • Anarchists harassing Schumer.
      http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...d-amnesty-now/

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      • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
        Why do people keep speaking about a wall?

        There's only ever going to be a few miles of additional border fence put up, and some changes to the type of fencing that already exists.

        Trump's proposals on the issue of the border wall are a solution to a problem that is mostly imagined.
        Then why is the hard left so up in arms about it? Its not the cost, 38 billion is pocket change in terms of budget and less than we spend each year on illegals. People don't dig in their heels over trivial issues.

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        • z,

          Then why is the hard left so up in arms about it? Its not the cost, 38 billion is pocket change in terms of budget and less than we spend each year on illegals. People don't dig in their heels over trivial issues.
          you can thank Trump for that, given his talk about Mexicans, and the way he's framed the entire immigration debate. he's made it a culture war. a Bush-ian call for increased border security measures and a fence-- which is essentially the same thing-- would not have engendered half the opposition. i mean that almost literally-- the Fence Act of 2006 passed 81-19 in the Senate.
          There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

          Comment


          • This comes to mind.



            The proposals from Trump are an ineffective boondoggle, and don't address the problems as they actually exist.

            2/3 of illegal immigrants are visa overstays, which a wall does nothing to address. Illegal crossings of the southern border are down 75% this decade compared to last. The flow of Mexican net migration is reversed, from the US to Mexico. The illegal Mexican population has been on the decline. The proposed solutions from Trump are a reaction to problems that existed in the 80s, 90s, and early 00s, and were already largely addressed by the Secure Fencing Act of 2006.

            Virtually all of the drugs that enter our country from Mexico enter at places like this:



            Which a wall would do nothing to address.

            Overall, Trump's perceptions do not square with the current reality.

            $38 billion for a wall would be $32 billion misspent, a strategic misallocation of funding that leaves the most of the actual problems completely unaddressed.
            "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

            Comment


            • Originally posted by astralis View Post
              z,



              you can thank Trump for that, given his talk about Mexicans, and the way he's framed the entire immigration debate. he's made it a culture war. a Bush-ian call for increased border security measures and a fence-- which is essentially the same thing-- would not have engendered half the opposition. i mean that almost literally-- the Fence Act of 2006 passed 81-19 in the Senate.
              Nope, the Gang of 8 got crucified before Trump showed up. It cost Rubio his shot at the presidency.

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              • Nope, the Gang of 8 got crucified before Trump showed up. It cost Rubio his shot at the presidency.
                crucified by....Republicans.

                your original q was why the -left- was up in arms about it. it's clear that prior to Trump coming, Dems were fairly flexible on border fencing. even now, relatively flexible, as evidenced by Schumer's initial offer. it's hardening thanks to Trump.
                There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                Comment


                • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                  crucified by....Republicans.

                  your original q was why the -left- was up in arms about it. it's clear that prior to Trump coming, Dems were fairly flexible on border fencing. even now, relatively flexible, as evidenced by Schumer's initial offer. it's hardening thanks to Trump.
                  Nah, its the Progressive Left demanding Schumer stiffen up, but he has a losing hand. He bet illegals against the military fighting overseas and their families at home. He hasn't drawn anything since the Shutdown to strengthen his play. In the battle of memes shumer vs Trump Shutdown, Trump won.

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                  • In fact, what the House did was a master stroke. They can attach riders like CHIP to every bill they send to the senate to keep the government functioning or maybe pass a real budget. military pay, veterans suicide prevention, snap funding... Cynical yes, but they can keep giving Trump things to bash the Dems over the head with for shutdown threats.

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                    • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                      In fact, what the House did was a master stroke. They can attach riders like CHIP to every bill they send to the senate to keep the government functioning or maybe pass a real budget. military pay, veterans suicide prevention, snap funding... Cynical yes, but they can keep giving Trump things to bash the Dems over the head with for shutdown threats.
                      What you're describing is SOP with regards to how Congress operates, it's the way things have always been, not something that's some unprecedented novel stroke of genius.
                      "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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                      • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
                        What you're describing is SOP with regards to how Congress operates, it's the way things have always been, not something that's some unprecedented novel stroke of genius.
                        It is for the GOP, they've been getting rolled by the Left for decades. Remember the Dems saying Gingrich wanted seniors to eat dog and cat food?

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                        • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                          It is for the GOP
                          No, it's not. They're called riders and sweeteners.
                          "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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                          • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                            Typical of you to completely ignore the rest of the Xiongnu history in order to create a false timeline.

                            So what you know about the Hun - Chinese link that we may be missing? Perhaps we could investigate this in the appropriate forum section? I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the subject.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                              Typical of you to completely ignore the rest of the Xiongnu history in order to create a false timeline.
                              Typical of you to know nothing about the subjects you yourself bring up.
                              Trust me?
                              I'm an economist!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                                citanon,



                                the cuts on it were also equal, and equally ludicrous. the whole point of sequestration was to be so bad for both sides that they'd -have- to come to an agreement. that didn't work out. sequestration wasn't -designed- to be a proper deficit cutting mechanism.
                                You're not really disagreeing with me asty. Any way you cut it the Dems' offer is moronic. You might apportion the idiocy more on the lap of Republicans, but you seem to agree that the principle on which they want to base their position is stupid.

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