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Thread: Schumer's Shutdown

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    I don't know whether you meant to imply it or not, but the example of the Roman Empire and the barbarian hordes isn't analogous to the US and immigration.
    Was talking about the Great Wall. When it was properly manned and supported it worked.

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    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    Well if you are not willing to put in 8 hours perhaps your slacker son, nephew or Down’s syndrome kid will. It is not your country’s obligation to provide opportunities to another nations refugees.
    If you are interested in one of those jobs just let me know and I'll get you in touch with someone.

  3. #63
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Was talking about the Great Wall. When it was properly manned and supported it worked.
    What alternate reality do you live in. A wall, or as Trump would say "a great wall" is what we need. I suppose you intend to put a wall around every major airport. You are aware that of the 11 million illegals in the country since, which is down from 2007, 42% came in through airports with valid visas. The other 6.38 million from across the border. Of course the best place to put that wall is not between the US and Mexico but between Mexico and Honduras. Lots shorter and cheaper considering Mexican illegals are way down.

    Are you also aware that 58% of those illegals have been here more than 10 years. That 31% own homes and 33% having US born children. You going to send ICE agents into communities to rip them out? ICE just raided 98 7-Eleven stores across the country and netted 21 illegals. I wonder what the cost per arrest was for that operation. Ever read the Economist? Apparently George Will does. I actually love that guy as being one of the few truly rational conservatives in this country. He argues in a sane manner and with his facts down. His repeat of the the Economist, on the effects of 9/11 on the immigration debate noted " a mass murder committed by mostly Saudi terrorists resulted in almost unlimited money being made available for the deportation of Mexican house-painters." LOL! I'll have to thank him for including that is his Sunday column.

  4. #64
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Dems have not been doing so [negotiating] in good faith.
    Gosh, I wonder how long it takes to forget all about the GOPers' favorite tactic.
    Did someone say, ACA?
    Last edited by DOR; 22 Jan 18, at 10:04.
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

  5. #65
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Was talking about the Great Wall. When it was properly manned and supported it worked.
    The ignorance is deep in this one.

    The fall of the Roman empire is conventionally dated to 476AD, and the start of the decline is often attributed to the war with the Goths (376-82AD).
    The Northern Wei dynasty united the North China plains in 439AD, 37 years before Rome fell.
    Most of the Great Wall was built during the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644), 1,162 years after the fall of Rome. That would be the time when it was "properly manned and supported."
    Trust me?
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  6. #66
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    Illegal immigration has died down, but public sentiment is a bit of a lagging indicator. You don't notice that your nation is suddenly more Hispanic after 1 year of 1 million illegals, you notice it after 20 years of 1 million illegals.

    I'm not particularly concerned about the shutdown. It'll eventually end with the framework already established. I think it's stupid to shut it down over DACA, but, meh, shit happens.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

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    It ended:

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1FB0ID

    Apparently this was a "stand on principle" timed to end at the start of the work week. =D

  8. #68
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    for now...until 8 February, when this starts up again.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  9. #69
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    Illegal immigration has died down, but public sentiment is a bit of a lagging indicator. You don't notice that your nation is suddenly more Hispanic after 1 year of 1 million illegals, you notice it after 20 years of 1 million illegals.
    It's not as if this sentiment is recent, or the result of something just noticed, it has existed with regards to immigration, illegal or otherwise, on the southern border since the 1930s, beginning with the deportation of up to 2 million Mexicans during the Great Depression.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 22 Jan 18, at 22:27.

  10. #70
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    How did those jobs get done before? In industries the illegals have moved into, wages have collapsed.
    As far as agricultural work goes, Mexican labor has figured heavily into the picture for over a century. We were so short on agricultural labor that we had the Bracero program from the 1940s through the 60s. Which in itself was a formalization of ad hoc practices that existed from decades earlier. There have been millions of Mexicans doing agricultural labor in the US, in any given year, stretching back a century, because of labor shortages.

    I worked one summer detasseling corn in Minnesota when I was 15. There weren't enough American kids to do the work, and a separate crew of Mexican labor made up the balance.

  11. #71
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    It's not as if this sentiment is recent, or the result of something just noticed, it has existed with regards to immigration, illegal or otherwise, on the southern border since the 1930s, beginning with the deportation of up to 2 million Mexicans during the Great Depression.
    Yeah, but this issue has become a lot more polarized since the 2006 deal fell apart. I don't think it's entirely normal to have THIS level of polarization on it. I also don't think any other Presidents made it THE focal point of their campaign.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  12. #72
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    Yeah, but this issue has become a lot more polarized since the 2006 deal fell apart. I don't think it's entirely normal to have THIS level of polarization on it. I also don't think any other Presidents made it THE focal point of their campaign.
    You're not wrong, indeed, it's not normal, nor has anybody made it the focal point of a presidential campaign either.

  13. #73
    Senior Contributor bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    As far as agricultural work goes, Mexican labor has figured heavily into the picture for over a century. We were so short on agricultural labor that we had the Bracero program from the 1940s through the 60s. Which in itself was a formalization of ad hoc practices that existed from decades earlier. There have been millions of Mexicans doing agricultural labor in the US, in any given year, stretching back a century, because of labor shortages.

    I worked one summer detasseling corn in Minnesota when I was 15. There weren't enough American kids to do the work, and a separate crew of Mexican labor made up the balance.
    That brings back memories. I did that in illinois in 1977. The crew started out small but a quarter raise came and we had a full bus load of workers by the end of the week. We have the labor in house. What is lacking is the incentive to get away from the PS4 and get a job, is the problem for most kids.
    Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

  14. #74
    Senior Contributor bonehead's Avatar
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    For zraver. We are not being attacked by an army. What we have is a few here and a dozen there sneaking in on a constant basis. We have the technology to know when and where this is happening. All we need to do is slow them down so the border patrol has time to stop them before they are 10 miles north of the border. A good wall is perfect for that.
    Last edited by bonehead; 23 Jan 18, at 01:42.
    Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    The ignorance is deep in this one.

    The fall of the Roman empire is conventionally dated to 476AD, and the start of the decline is often attributed to the war with the Goths (376-82AD).
    The Northern Wei dynasty united the North China plains in 439AD, 37 years before Rome fell.
    Most of the Great Wall was built during the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644), 1,162 years after the fall of Rome. That would be the time when it was "properly manned and supported."
    Your history is off. The Huns are often considered to be a part of the Northern Hsiung-nu/Xiongnu. They went west around under pressure from the Norther Wei

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