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Thread: Schumer's Shutdown

  1. #46
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    the silly thing is that when all is said and done, the contours of a deal already exist from the multiple negotiations that have occurred.

    Dems get DACA and long-term CHIP; GOP gets partial funding for the wall and the end of the diversity visa lottery. the end result will probably be along those lines, but only after a lot of chest-beating and billions of dollars wasted.
    From the sounds of it things were going on and off the rails at a moments notice the last day.

    http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/20/politi...ock/index.html

    I look at the second picture where Schumer has hand against his head and McConnell is gazing off and wonder what they are thinking. Then I see trump with his mouth open and obviously saying something. Now I know what they are thinking and that is "doesn't he ever shut his mouth?"

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    I always get a kick out of those like you when talking about a wall yet none live along the border much less seen it. So tell me have you been along the border of California-Mexico as I have given all the years I lived in San Diego. How about Arizona-Mexico which is even more forbidding? Before talking like an expert maybe you need to spend a year surveying the entire region first hand.
    Yes I've been along the border. The fact that California has built so many industries on illegal labor too keep wages for non-tech workers down is a problem not a solution. Now your state is in open sedition against the federal government. Ignoring federal law is one thing, seeking to prosecute those who obey it is seditious.

    Atsy,

    the silly thing is that when all is said and done, the contours of a deal already exist from the multiple negotiations that have occurred.
    Dems have not been doing so in good faith. Renaming the visa lottery and protecting chain migration while denying all but 1/10th of the wall funding is not compromise. the 4 points are clear; fully fund the wall, end the visa lotery, end chain migration, then extend legal status to the dreamers.

  3. #48
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    800 miles to cross from Libya to Sicily. Doesn't stop them. Do you think a wall will stop them taking a far shorter boat journey?

  4. #49
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    800 miles to cross from Libya to Sicily. Doesn't stop them. Do you think a wall will stop them taking a far shorter boat journey?
    There used to be in the ballpark of 1 to 1.5 million illegal crossings in the late 90s to mid-00s during years of economic expansion. With the current border walls and increased enforcement, we haven't seen anywhere near those levels during the years of economic expansion in the 2010s.



    It's never going to drop to 0, but the numbers were mitigated. The sectors of the border where Trump wants to build are relatively well-covered by existing fencing and walls built as a result of the Secure Fence Act of 2006. It's the Rio Grande that's the area now with the most crossings. Trump's previous proposals focus on areas where fencing and walls would have the least effect. Which is one of the reasons why Kelly called Trump's proposals 'uninformed'.

  5. #50
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    How many arrive by boat? A wall is nothing. Those who have to will just go round it. Hell thousands cross 800 miles of open sea to get to Europe. Doesn't matter what you - those that want to get in will.

  6. #51
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Those who have to will just go round it.
    They haven't.

  7. #52
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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    It’s called a coast guard! The Royal Bahamian Defense Force’s intercept a deport Haitians all the time! The Bahamians vigorously defend their culture from dilution of what they consider the toxic influence of Haitians. Also ask how the Dominicans have dealt with Haitians. Just read up on the history of Hispaniola.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parsley_massacre

    Re: RBDF mission to defend their Culture.
    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...25848767451024

    And detaining and deporting Haitians.
    https://m.facebook.com/RBDFMIL/photo...pe=3&source=49
    Last edited by surfgun; 21 Jan 18, at 23:43.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    How many arrive by boat? A wall is nothing. Those who have to will just go round it. Hell thousands cross 800 miles of open sea to get to Europe. Doesn't matter what you - those that want to get in will.
    Not many, the USCG's drug interdiction patrols have our seas locked down a lot tighter than our land border. No canyons to hide in on the open seas. FLIR can see a long ways and wakes make a nice contrast and even flourece at night. Most of the people coming in by ship are Asians who hide in sealand containers. Most of the freight from Mexico and Central America moves by rail and truck not ship.

  9. #54
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Yes I've been along the border. The fact that California has built so many industries on illegal labor too keep wages for non-tech workers down is a problem not a solution. Now your state is in open sedition against the federal government. Ignoring federal law is one thing, seeking to prosecute those who obey it is seditious.
    Good, so tell me how many years you have lived in California or Arizona? Now these industries relying on illegal labor were not built by California. They are old line industries that can't get anyone to work in them. Does $20 an hour sound good to you? That is much higher than the minimum wage.

    Well I'm not spending 8 hours in a hot field picking fruit and vegetables for that day after day. I'm not moving from farm to farm every few weeks to chase the harvest season. I'm not spending 8 hours on a hot roof changing it out. I'm not spending 8 hours cleaning dishes in a restaurant. I'm not doing 8 hours of lower level labor at a construction site. I'm not spending 8 hours gutting chickens at Foster Farm. I'm not spending 8 hours mowing lawns. Apparently not many other US citizens are willing to do that either. Yet from the sounds of it you would do those jobs in a heartbeat. Bring friends along and maybe it will be the solution.

    Open sedition? Would you be alright with us leaving the Union and take our 13.3% of the US economy with us? No one seems to like California so there shouldn't be an issue, right?

  10. #55
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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    Well if you are not willing to put in 8 hours perhaps your slacker son, nephew or Down’s syndrome kid will. It is not your country’s obligation to provide opportunities to another nations refugees.

  11. #56
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    They haven't.
    Just ask the wildings and the white walkers
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    Good, so tell me how many years you have lived in California or Arizona? Now these industries relying on illegal labor were not built by California. They are old line industries that can't get anyone to work in them. Does $20 an hour sound good to you? That is much higher than the minimum wage.

    Well I'm not spending 8 hours in a hot field picking fruit and vegetables for that day after day. I'm not moving from farm to farm every few weeks to chase the harvest season. I'm not spending 8 hours on a hot roof changing it out. I'm not spending 8 hours cleaning dishes in a restaurant. I'm not doing 8 hours of lower level labor at a construction site. I'm not spending 8 hours gutting chickens at Foster Farm. I'm not spending 8 hours mowing lawns. Apparently not many other US citizens are willing to do that either. Yet from the sounds of it you would do those jobs in a heartbeat. Bring friends along and maybe it will be the solution.

    Open sedition? Would you be alright with us leaving the Union and take our 13.3% of the US economy with us? No one seems to like California so there shouldn't be an issue, right?
    How did those jobs get done before? In industries the illegals have moved into, wages have collapsed. I made more roofing at 16 than a journeyman roofer does now nearly 30 years later. Ditto for meat packing and poultry. My sons' ancestors on the mothers' sides are the people who used to chase the harvest and built many of the roads you drive. They moved to California from Arkansas during the depression. Not my fault you're lazy and have a sense of undeserved entitlement.

    As for sedition, just jail your governor and AG. The Supremacy clause of the US Constitution is pretty clear. I don't think states have an obligation to enforce federal olaw unless they agree to do so as part of getting federal money. That however is a totally different ball of wax from prosecuting people who follow federal law.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Just ask the wildings and the white walkers
    The Great Wall of China played a role in the fall of the Roman Empire. With strong border defenses and a good feild army the Chinese crushed the Huns and sent them West. Enter Atilla and the final chapter of the Western Roman Empire.

  14. #59
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    I don't know whether you meant to imply it or not, but the example of the Roman Empire and the barbarian hordes isn't analogous to the US and immigration.

  15. #60
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    I think the current sentiment regarding immigration from the right is more of a bogeyman than has basis in reality. The current arguments might make a little bit more sense if this were 1998 and not 2018 when the country was awash with illegal immigration rates 3-4 times the rate we're seeing today, but then only to a certain degree. The arguments basically ignore a lot of other realities, and place the blame solely on a singular factor, while ignoring other more significant factors that have had a bigger role in wage stagnation/decline than immigration.

    Unions and the ability to collectively bargain for wages were for all practical purposes gutted from the 1980s onward. Policies in the 'right-to-work' states have also significantly held back wage growth and lowered the prevailing wage in the industrial and blue collar sectors. In these states, wages are lower, and they have also had a negative knock-on effect on industrial and blue collar wages across the rest of the country. To the extent that immigrants work for less than natives, these trends have largely provided the openings for them to do so. Profits have also more heavily accrued for the vast part to non-productive elements instead of labor.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 22 Jan 18, at 02:40.

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