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Thread: Schumer's Shutdown

  1. #16
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    It takes 60 senatorial votes. Of course you should know this!
    This whole shutdown thing is firmly in my 'don't give a shit' file, but whose responsibility is it to get 60 votes?

    McConnell had 45 Republican votes to invoke cloture.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 20 Jan 18, at 20:22.

  2. #17
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    This whole shutdown thing is firmly in my 'don't give a shit' file, but whose responsibility is it to get 60 votes?
    According to this video: Schumer.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ii6j_rofWk

  3. #18
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    McConnell had 45 votes in his own party. He needed a total 15 Democrats to join him overcome a filibuster.

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    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...d87_story.html

    After the president ordered cameras out of the Cabinet Room that day, the group delved into the details. Kirstjen Nielsen, Trump’s homeland security secretary, and her staff passed out a four-page document on the administration’s “must haves” for any immigration bill — a hard-line list that included $18 billion for Trump’s promised border wall, eliminating the diversity visa lottery program and ending “extended family chain migration,” according to the document, which was obtained by The Washington Post.

    But one person seemed surprised and alarmed by the memo: the president.

    With Democrats and Republicans still in the room, Trump said that the document didn’t represent all of his positions, that he wasn’t familiar with its contents and that he didn’t appreciate being caught off-guard. He instructed the group to disregard the summary and move on, according to one of the lawmakers in the room, speaking on the condition of anonymity to describe a private conversation.

    “It’s like the wedding where someone actually stands up and objects to the wedding,” the lawmaker said. “It was that moment.”
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  5. #20
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    It takes 60 senatorial votes. Of course you should know this!
    You do have 5 Dems chipping in to vote yes, including the new Alabama guy. Yet, you do not even have all Republicans in your corner. How did Rand Paul vote?
    Even a 51 majority rule would not have given you this.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  6. #21
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Trump has said that he would not negotiate on Immigration till the shutdown ends. Dems do not want to play ball. I hope both sides hold on. I would love to see how long we can go without a Federal government
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  7. #22
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    Questions the Progressives have to explain to the voter

    1. Why shutdown the government over illegals who were not even facing deportation before June.

    2. Why shut down the government when there was no immigration bill to vote on.

    3. Why reject CHIP funding for 9 million kids in favor or shutting down the government to benefit illegals.

    The Dens may think they are going come out smelling like roses. But in the House districts they need to flip to regain the House and in Red State senate seats they need to keep they have some explaining to do.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Questions the Progressives have to explain to the voter

    The Dens may think they are going come out smelling like roses. But in the House districts they need to flip to regain the House and in Red State senate seats they need to keep they have some explaining to do.
    I think moderates will hold this against both the parties. On one hand, yes, the Dems are holding the CR for the sake of the 1 million or so Dreamers who are still not at risk until March. On the other hand, there is Trump's dysfunctional leadership, his erratic nature and the backing out of agreed upon deals.

    As for November, yes, its possible that a shutdown may hurt Dems with the moderates, or as likely it may be forgotten by then (see the 2013 shutdown), however the driving force in recent elections appears to be the rage among the base and the Liberals against Trump. One thing shown by Trump's election is that in the age of hyper partisanship energizing the base appears to offer a better shot at victory than persuading the sliver of true swing voters.

  9. #24
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    I think both Schumer and Graham are on the same page as to whom should be blamed. The CEO mentality of Trump doesn't help since he can't say get it done and people move without complaint. It also seems he has been pretty erratic these last two weeks which has lead to Graham's exasperation. From the sound of things it reminds me of having to deal with my ex-partner in 1994 when it came to breaking up the business. He became deeply involved in Scientology and had use of Scientology lawyers. My lawyer said dealing with him was near impossible as everything agreed to on Monday was thrown out on Tuesday to start all over again. That was by design to try and wear me down except I had an ace in the hole luckily. However, I don't think Trump is doing this by design I think he is just not as good as he thinks he is in negotiations. Tantrums only go so far.

  10. #25
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Questions the Progressives have to explain to the voter

    1. Why shutdown the government over illegals who were not even facing deportation before June.

    2. Why shut down the government when there was no immigration bill to vote on.

    3. Why reject CHIP funding for 9 million kids in favor or shutting down the government to benefit illegals.

    The Dens may think they are going come out smelling like roses. But in the House districts they need to flip to regain the House and in Red State senate seats they need to keep they have some explaining to do.
    In that case you should be cheering the shutdown to high hell, right?
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  11. #26
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    I think both Schumer and Graham are on the same page as to whom should be blamed. The CEO mentality of Trump doesn't help since he can't say get it done and people move without complaint. It also seems he has been pretty erratic these last two weeks which has lead to Graham's exasperation. From the sound of things it reminds me of having to deal with my ex-partner in 1994 when it came to breaking up the business. He became deeply involved in Scientology and had use of Scientology lawyers. My lawyer said dealing with him was near impossible as everything agreed to on Monday was thrown out on Tuesday to start all over again. That was by design to try and wear me down except I had an ace in the hole luckily. However, I don't think Trump is doing this by design I think he is just not as good as he thinks he is in negotiations. Tantrums only go so far.
    The ultimate "Trump" card in negotiations - walk out and nuke the deal. It is something that I have used in sales negotiations to buying cars. I would like the Dems to do just that. The Military and other essential services are not going to be affected, regardless of what Trump says. Let's see what happens if the government is shut down till November or beyond.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  12. #27
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Questions the Progressives have to explain to the voter

    1. Why shutdown the government over illegals who were not even facing deportation before June.

    2. Why shut down the government when there was no immigration bill to vote on.

    3. Why reject CHIP funding for 9 million kids in favor or shutting down the government to benefit illegals.

    The Dens may think they are going come out smelling like roses. But in the House districts they need to flip to regain the House and in Red State senate seats they need to keep they have some explaining to do.
    Questions the voters need to ask GOPers:
    1.) Which party has the most seats in the House?
    2.) Which party has the most seats in the Senate?
    3.) Which party has the Whte House
    4.) Which party can’t man up and govern?
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

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    According to Trump, the blame rests with himself.


  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    Questions the voters need to ask GOPers:
    1.) Which party has the most seats in the House?
    2.) Which party has the most seats in the Senate?
    3.) Which party has the Whte House
    4.) Which party can’t man up and govern?
    If the GOP ditches the filibuster and goes to a straight majority vote you are gonna be among the loudest howlers.

  15. #30
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    If the GOP ditches the filibuster and goes to a straight majority vote you are gonna be among the loudest howlers.
    Everyone bitches about the filibuster when they're in the majority, and defends it when they're in the minority.

    Getting rid of it is like shooting someone in the head by shooting yourself in the head while they're standing next to you.

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