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  • Wooglin,

    This isn't a court of law, no matter how much you might wish it is.
    Innocent until proven guilty doesn't cut it here.
    It is a job interview, and if the interviewee makes my skin crawl, I'm not hiring him.
    Oh please. Let's dispense with the bullshit...you ask me about standards when in fact you couldn't care less, as the only standard you really have is that the person is in your tribe. Everything else is just bullshit and games.
    Last edited by Wooglin; 03 Oct 18,, 20:36.

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    • Originally posted by astralis View Post
      z,



      it's not the teenage drinking that's specifically the issue here, it's the teenage drinking and his alleged actions following drinking, and the denial of it all. hell, Kavanaugh denied abusing alcohol and portrayed himself as a choir boy, but it's pretty obvious by now that the former is not true, which raises serious questions about the latter.
      He said he liked to drink, and sometimes drank too much.


      pretty sure we'll see something different this November, but leaving that aside
      I don't doubt it at all. You are still mis-reading middle America.


      -- I doubt this grand bargain will happen, especially if Kavanaugh goes through. McConnell's poisoned that well, most prominently with Garland and now with Kavanaugh.
      I think you meant Reid


      the latter -precisely- because there was no particular conservative reason to KEEP him after the allegations, given the number of other similarly conservative judges available.
      The same type of last minute shady ass BS would be pulled on anyone Trump put up. There's no reason not to back Kavanaugh.


      Trump and McConnell have backed Kavanaugh to the hilt to demonstrate to their base that they can and will "own the libs" even when the stakes aren't particularly high; and as an useful side-effect, make life uncomfortable with red-state Dems. in short, a political show of power and dominance. fair enough, but Dems will remember.
      The stakes were as high as they get, fold and these type of attacks would never stop. The only way to stop them and return to a more principled order is to stand up to the Dems who know no line they will not cross in pursuit of power.



      liberals won't be satisfied with keeping RBG's seat because with the replacement of Kennedy by Kavanaugh, the court will decisively swing right for probably the next 10 years, with the median shifting from center-right Kennedy to right-leaning Roberts.
      Kavanaugh got grilled by Cruz for having a voting record that was 98% in line with Garland. Hard core conservatives wanted Amy Barret.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by astralis View Post
        ie the claim that "if mere allegations can destroy Kavanaugh, they can destroy anyone!!11" was the precise argument of Roy Moore.

        not true then, and not true now, particularly when the person making the allegation is "credible" and the allegation itself is "compelling", per the President of the United States a few days ago.
        Actually they are not at all compelling. She has no witnesses and the only thing she can remember is she had one beer and he did it. Did you read the sex crimes prosecutor's report? Ford keeps changing details to suit her story and need in the moment. New allegations against her have surfaced that appear credible including building permits for the second front door that show it was used as a separate entrance for a work at home counseling business. Her ex said they flew around a volcano in a single engine prop-job further under cutting her fear of flying claim. In addition her ex says she helped a friend prep for a polygraph.

        DOR,

        Did you watch the same testimony I did?
        Did you read the prosecutor's report? "Even weaker than a he said she said".

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        • z,

          He said he liked to drink, and sometimes drank too much.
          he didn't say this in his initial interview with Fox News. it was only after a lot of mockery after the release of the calendar, which corroborated what his acquaintances were saying about his habits, that he copped to it during the Senate testimony.

          I don't doubt it at all. You are still mis-reading middle America.
          :shrug: we'll see.

          The same type of last minute shady ass BS would be pulled on anyone Trump put up. There's no reason not to back Kavanaugh.
          what "last minute shady ass BS" did Neil Gorsuch get? frankly, red-state Dems are in a bit of a pickle when it comes to Trump's SC justices; most of them had no opposition to Gorsuch because he didn't have these type of issues.

          Kavanaugh got grilled by Cruz for having a voting record that was 98% in line with Garland. Hard core conservatives wanted Amy Barret.
          if Kavanaugh only differed by 2% from Garland, then I'd say Trump and McConnell are doubly stupid for pushing this hard for Kavanaugh when Garland would get easy plaudits as the bipartisan choice.

          but we digress: the point is that if liberals are in a position to pack the court-- which assumes both Congressional majorities and a Dem Prez-- what would conservatives offer to liberals so that they -wouldn't- pack the court? your statement "you meant Reid" shows exactly what I mean; conservatives have used Reid as the reason behind the recent power-plays; when the wheel of power turns, it'll be even easier for liberals to use McConnell as the reason for theirs.
          There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

          Comment


          • Originally posted by astralis View Post
            z, your statement "you meant Reid" shows exactly what I mean; conservatives have used Reid as the reason behind the recent power-plays; when the wheel of power turns, it'll be even easier for liberals to use McConnell as the reason for theirs.
            A grand bargain now with RBG's seat on the line is the best time to do it. Trump is well on his way to a 2020 re-election. Since FDR no president with a good economy or real war has lost re-election. The only presidents who have lost a re-election were Carter, Ford and Bush 41. All 3 had bad economies and no foreign enemy to prop them up with battle scenes filling the nightly news. Trump is a deal maker, or claims to be. A grand bargain may be the best shot the Dems have of preserving a divided but center-right court, which is better than a hard right court. Kennedy wasn't really a middle guy, on most issues he leaned right.

            Comment


            • z,

              A grand bargain now with RBG's seat on the line is the best time to do it. Trump is well on his way to a 2020 re-election. Since FDR no president with a good economy or real war has lost re-election. The only presidents who have lost a re-election were Carter, Ford and Bush 41. All 3 had bad economies and no foreign enemy to prop them up with battle scenes filling the nightly news. Trump is a deal maker, or claims to be. A grand bargain may be the best shot the Dems have of preserving a divided but center-right court, which is better than a hard right court. Kennedy wasn't really a middle guy, on most issues he leaned right.
              no trust on either side, and little political incentive.

              something like this might have worked for THIS nomination-- IE instead of Kavanaugh, McConnell says "OK, we screwed you guys on Garland-- we'll support Garland for Kennedy's seat if we have a gentleman's agreement that if RBG's seat opens up while there's a Republican President, you won't oppose whomever we pick."

              of course, i can't see the GOP base supporting this deal, nor do I think McConnell would trust the Dems to uphold the gentleman's agreement, either.

              all of these mechanics are significantly worse with RBG's seat. GOP base would salivate over the prospect of not just flipping a center-right seat to a conservative one, but an out-and-out liberal seat to a conservative one. if the GOP were to give this up, they'd certainly demand something enormous from the Dems in return.

              Dems ironically wouldn't have much of an incentive to pay, because paying a huge sum to be defeated 5-4 vs being defeated 6-3 isn't a great deal.
              There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

              Comment


              • Heidkamp is the swing vote, her numbers are tanking and Schumer is going to give her the OK. Flake is angling for an MSNBC job where a million dollar a year contract for any Republican willing to bash Republicans is waiting.
                https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...o-on-kavanaugh

                she wasn't the swing vote; Murkowski/Collins/Flake are. Collins and Flake have already indicated they will vote yes.

                bottom-line, Kavanaugh will likely end up getting in with Pence breaking the tie.
                There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                Comment


                • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                  A grand bargain now with RBG's seat on the line is the best time to do it. Trump is well on his way to a 2020 re-election. Since FDR no president with a good economy or real war has lost re-election. The only presidents who have lost a re-election were Carter, Ford and Bush 41. All 3 had bad economies and no foreign enemy to prop them up with battle scenes filling the nightly news. Trump is a deal maker, or claims to be. A grand bargain may be the best shot the Dems have of preserving a divided but center-right court, which is better than a hard right court. Kennedy wasn't really a middle guy, on most issues he leaned right.
                  Grand bargain?

                  I've got two words for you: Merrick Garland
                  Trust me?
                  I'm an economist!

                  Comment


                  • https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...o-on-kavanaugh

                    Senator Heitkamp announced she will vote her conscience, reelection be damned.

                    This is the way the Senate is supposed to operate.

                    This used to be the norm in both parties.

                    As a country we need to return to insist Congress return to Regular Order in Congress and get back to governing.

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regula...ates_Congress)
                    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                    Mark Twain

                    Comment


                    • Has Senator Heitkamp been harassed to no end by anarchists?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                        https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...o-on-kavanaugh

                        Senator Heitkamp announced she will vote her conscience, reelection be damned.

                        This is the way the Senate is supposed to operate.

                        This used to be the norm in both parties.

                        As a country we need to return to insist Congress return to Regular Order in Congress and get back to governing.

                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regula...ates_Congress)
                        Now, if only Susan Collins would do the same ...
                        Trust me?
                        I'm an economist!

                        Comment


                        • DOR, listen or read her words of her (Susan Collins) speech that dispels your prejudice against the good judge.

                          https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FRpSJed5xsA
                          Last edited by surfgun; 05 Oct 18,, 22:04.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by DOR View Post
                            Grand bargain?

                            I've got two words for you: Merrick Garland
                            Yeah, Obama's attempt to make a hard right seat a center-left seat blew up in his face.

                            Comment


                            • Brotus is confirmed
                              To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

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                              • Well, now that Clarence Thomas re-run is done, hopefully programming can return to normal.
                                Ego Numquam

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