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  • Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
    It's also foolish to try to plan for events centuries in the future. We need to respond now with information currently available, with our current values. I am more of the opinion that we should welcome immigration, particularly of the high-skilled sort, but this might not be a sustainable model. If China eats our lunch this century, it means this pro-immigration, atomistic model of the West was a failure, the same way communism was a failure.
    Your country thrives on innovation. Highly skilled immigrants don't go to the US in millions every year to displace the white population. It's in 1000s. They build companies, open up small businesses, pay their taxes and contribute to the local economy. This fear of it not being a sustainable model is misplaced. From a far-right perspective, fine, let's imagine immigrants would one day outbreed the native population. Then America should choose countries from where it's immigrants should come from. Look at Japan, it is a closed country. It has aged, people don't get married like they used to, fertility rates are low, and now they are in the process of hiring nurses from India. When a person gets old, he/she needs to be taken care of, right?

    What about the poor who want to go to the US and make some money? Do you clean your own latrine? Do you know electrical works, plumbing, construction, fixing your car, mowing the lawn? If you know all these, then you'll do just fine. The vast majority of people don't, this is where those immigrants come in. What I proposed is a low-skilled work permit that doesn't provide citizenship, is of fixed tenure, to those people from your neighbouring countries or my neighbouring country Bangladesh. This way US won't have the headache of illegal immigrants sneaking in the country, and the President will tweet a little less. Make money giving out work permits, then use the same for infrastructure development. No need to use taxpayers money to build a wall to keep immigrants out. Right now, all I see is hot air from the current administration. NO ONE can stop illegal immigration, because economics trump every other reason. I know for a fact that your diary and meat industry hires a lot of illegal immigrants because the native population with college degrees doesn't want to clean cowdung, even though the hourly rate is better than what Starbucks offer.

    Stop immigration and China will definitely eat your lunch. All those people with work visas, working in the US, the day they find US has closed its doors, they will move to China. And China has the money, it will hand-out lucrative job offers. People go where money is. Think of the damage it would to your country. And why just China, India has a lot going on currently and in the next 10 years, the economy will run on full steam.

    In the 90s, people in India were crazy about going to America. Anybody with basic knowledge of Unix commands would fly to the US, a job waiting. Then there were mainframe jobs. There still is craze, but a lot have subsided. Working for an Indian start-up, a person with 10-12 years of work experience can earn anywhere between 25-30 Lacs annually, which is ~ 50K USD. My Engineering batchmate and a good friend who works in Microsoft (Hyderabad) earns close to $110K per year. Where is the incentive then of going to US. With that kind of money, people here have a very good lifestyle. Earlier I used to see US citizens arriving in India with a short term visa and then going back, now I see US/EU citizens staying in India for 5+ years. India is creating jobs for its own citizens and for the global population. Niche jobs. I find it very nice to work alongside citizens of other countries in India. That is a good thing. And nobody, will find me ever saying an American has stolen my IT job, because I believe in my own skill-set. If I feel I'm falling behind, I'll upgrade myself with a technology 10 years into the future.

    And how is communism a failure? Russia is still standing, isn't it? America has made China rich, so?
    Last edited by Oracle; 22 Oct 18,, 07:05.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

    Comment


    • Stop immigration and China will definitely eat your lunch. All those people with work visas, working in the US, the day they find US has closed its doors, they will move to China. And China has the money, it will hand-out lucrative job offers. People go where money is. Think of the damage it would to your country. And why just China, India has a lot going on currently and in the next 10 years, the economy will run on full steam.
      China will bring in millions of Mexicans, El Salvadorians, and Hondurans?
      To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

      Comment


      • Originally posted by troung View Post
        China will bring in millions of Mexicans, El Salvadorians, and Hondurans?
        The highly skilled ones, who currently are working on cutting edge technologies in your country. There are some, contractors, working for your military, NSA too. China won't have to hack into US defense systems anymore, because then US, because of its policies would have given people with knowledge, skills and secrets to China on a platter.

        It's a future thing, its if.
        Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by WABs_OOE View Post
          I thought Pacific Islanders are considered Caucasians?
          No. They are two genetically distinct, non-Caucasian groups. Polynesians (Hawaii & NZ among others) originate in the Malay archipelago & near Taiwan - closer to you than me Sir. Melanesians (PNG, Fiji etc.) are darker and originate farther south.

          I don't think the Irish felt they were white (read English) enough. Then it was the Italians turn.
          The Irish certainly weren't 'English' enough. They are, however, some of the whitest people I've ever met - bight white....until they spend 5 minutes in the sun. ;-)

          I rolled my eyes with his posts. I just didn't care for his attitude. He asked when did a "white" population voted themselves into a minority. Easy. The Brits. When they voted to keep and at times to expand the British Empire.
          The fact that he rapidly resorted to posting some white supremacist rant rather than arguing his case told me this was never a fact-based opinion.

          Oh, for the Stormfront guys reading this, Mexicans are white.
          I suspect some of the Stormfront guys still struggle with the idea that Spanish, Greeks & Italians are 'white'. Tell them stuff like this and their little heads will pop.

          Ehh, yes, we do. Ottawa and Sydney could not use London's Laws for conscription. They had to pass laws of their own to conscript troops. And the British Indian Army was always a volunteer force. So, it was always local decisions to get a World War.

          Do note it was Ottawa and Sydney who stated that Edward VII was never going to be their king.
          Are you trying to hurt my feelings Sir? The shallow folk of the harbour city have never been deemed worthy of national leadership (formally anyway). Before independence the individual colonies dealt direct with London. After Federation the fine & sensible city of Melbourne was our temporary capital until the construction of the soulless Canberra, which took over the role in 1927.

          Melbourne continued to play a role in the Edward VII controversy, as it was former PM Stanley Melbourne Bruce who was our envoy to London at the time. :-)

          As you correctly point out, Australians were passing their own laws even before we became independent. Britain largely kept control over our foreign relations until WW2, but in other areas we made our own rules.
          sigpic

          Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

          Comment


          • The highly skilled ones, who currently are working on cutting edge technologies in your country. There are some, contractors, working for your military, NSA too. China won't have to hack into US defense systems anymore, because then US, because of its policies would have given people with knowledge, skills and secrets to China on a platter.
            Ok, so not the ones the wall is to keep out.
            Last edited by troung; 22 Oct 18,, 08:58.
            To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

            Comment


            • Originally posted by antimony View Post
              There you go again: "Us" vs "You"

              Z,

              Please cut out that "urban core" bullshit and start listening for a change. Regardless of how you perceive "us", you DO NOT know my community better than I do. I am trying to help you out here. Regardless of economic staus, within the minority communities (I have most experience with Asian and Indian here) there is a pervasive fear of not being set aside as different.
              And I'm saying that your not set aside

              When your demigod Steve Bannon says that having too many Asian tech CEOs undermines 'civic society', this only exacerbated the problem. Everything that has happened since Trump got elected, from Charlotsville to how they have tried to curtail legal immigration, has added on to this.
              Steve Bannon isn't my anything. Nor is the push to curtail legal immigration, but to adapt it to the needs of the country. There is no wider social benefit to importing people who do not add to the polity. If Person X is someone we need, great come on in, bring your spouse and kids. But as soon as you go outside of that and allow parents and siblings where does it stop? Yet the Left claims that wanting an immigration level that serves the citizen is racist.... wtaf?

              Please do not take this personally. It is just that the fact that the regular Republican is a warm and fuzzy creature, instead of being a raging racist, is not really coming out.
              Can't make you see past your own prejudices. If you ever come to Arkansas I'll take you trail riding in the Ozarks and show you just how deep into the woods you have to get to hear banjos. The shop I work at is in one of the reddest of red professions in the reddest of states... We are diverse including multiple races and other minorities. Its just not an issue compared to how well do you do your job?

              BTW, your theory that racists do not vote is ludicrous and borderline crazy-town talk
              Your trapped in a media bubble. Come to Arkansas, go trail riding with me, meet the people I call friend or family. I'll show you just how far back in them there hills you have to go to find a white who will judge you by the color of your skin.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
                You could argue Latin America as "white" because there was a lot of inter-mixing with the Spanish,
                Its a bad argument. The top class of most Latin American countries is white with almost no intermixing of indigenous blood, the lower classes have some but not much Spanish blood and are called mestizo. The lowest class are indigenous. Its a system dating back to the colonial casa (class) era. They tend to have very class and race conscious social system. I think Evo Morales is Bolivia's first indigenous president in a country that is 86% mestizo or indigenous. Just watch Spanish language TV in the US, the actors are mostly white and Mexican and come from the upper crust of mexico. They are not dark skinned peons and most assuredly not indigenous.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by troung View Post
                  Ok, so not the ones the wall is to keep out.
                  The wall isn't a good proposition unless 99% of Americans turn superhuman overnight and can do everything on their own. That's where temp work visas come in. People come in for a short time to do jobs that are seasonal (picking fruits, veggies) as well as year long (nannies), work & make money, then they go back. Everything is documented, they pay taxes, even their work permits could be made to avail a fee. When in US they'd spend money on food and fuel, accommodation, conveyance and many other stuff. The economy gets a slight raise. Both sides gain. This is something I would like India to arrange with our neighbouring countries, unfortunately vision is not something the political class is endowed with.
                  Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                    The shallow folk of the harbour city have never been deemed worthy of national leadership (formally anyway).
                    I so stand corrected.
                    Chimo

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                      Are Filipinos Sth Pacific Islanders? I thought they were more or less Malay - like Indonesians & Malaysians. Most Sth Pacific Islanders I've met are literally twice the size of the average Filipino. :) Certainly not white, however. Not sure your family would be allowed into his white ethno state.
                      .
                      The Philippines does have a Austronesian background just like Pacific Islanders. I'm sure you know there 175 ethnolinguistic nations, many of which are Austronesian in origin. One group, the Negrito, have origins out of Africa. So while many are Malay you still have all the other ethnic groups with inter-marriage all over the place. Now my wife looks more Hawaiian which is what people think. Maybe the meter long black hair as it throws many off.

                      There was a recent incidence at a Nursing Facility where she works. One patient in for rehab was quite, quite biased against Filipinos. I'll say biased as racist people don't like to be called racist. He told her they don't belong over here. They don't speak english and on and on. He constantly threw food on the floor to make the Filipina aides clean up. My wife listened to all this and then told him she was Filipina. This is where it gets weird. He tells her he thought she was Fijian as if that makes a difference. Then the clown asks for a hug at which point my wife said hell no and walked out.

                      Comment


                      • Oh, for the Stormfront guys reading this, Mexicans are white.
                        Depends, a bunch are European in origin, others are Indians, others are a mix of the two, then there are Mexicans of African origin, then Mexicans of Arab origin.. then "Asians"...

                        The wall isn't a good proposition unless 99% of Americans turn superhuman overnight and can do everything on their own. That's where temp work visas come in. People come in for a short time to do jobs that are seasonal (picking fruits, veggies) as well as year long (nannies), work & make money, then they go back. Everything is documented, they pay taxes, even their work permits could be made to avail a fee. When in US they'd spend money on food and fuel, accommodation, conveyance and many other stuff. The economy gets a slight raise. Both sides gain. This is something I would like India to arrange with our neighbouring countries, unfortunately vision is not something the political class is endowed with.
                        We can manage without them

                        Legal residents/citizens babysit, legal residents/citizens work construction, legal residents/citizens work in packing plants, legal residents/citizens perform landscaping duties... etc...

                        Let's build that beautiful wall and let the illegals help China's or India's economy :)
                        Last edited by troung; 22 Oct 18,, 17:42.
                        To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by troung View Post
                          Depends, a bunch are European in origin, others are Indians, others are a mix of the two, then there are Mexicans of African origin, then Mexicans of Arab origin.. then "Asians"...





                          Legal residents/citizens babysit, legal residents/citizens work construction, legal residents/citizens work in packing plants, legal residents/citizens perform landscaping duties... etc...

                          :)
                          No they don't. Certainly not here in California and I know not in Colorado especially when it come to landscaping, packing plants, and construction especially roofing.

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                          • No 'wall' works 100% or lasts. Waste of time.

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                            • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                              Its a bad argument. The top class of most Latin American countries is white with almost no intermixing of indigenous blood, the lower classes have some but not much Spanish blood and are called mestizo. The lowest class are indigenous. Its a system dating back to the colonial casa (class) era. They tend to have very class and race conscious social system. I think Evo Morales is Bolivia's first indigenous president in a country that is 86% mestizo or indigenous. Just watch Spanish language TV in the US, the actors are mostly white and Mexican and come from the upper crust of mexico. They are not dark skinned peons and most assuredly not indigenous.
                              Mestizos in Mexico are about half white or more and make up the majority. In the US they'd be considered mixed-race.

                              The proportions vary nation. Now that I think more about it, I think Bolivia and Guatemala are substantially more indigenous than Venezuela or Mexico. Wiki says El Salvador is not particulalry indigenous and has a bunch of Central European immigrants.
                              "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

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                              • Originally posted by snapper View Post
                                No 'wall' works 100% or lasts. Waste of time.
                                I think the Wall may just for enriching his friends in the construction industry.

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