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Thread: 2018 American Political Scene

  1. #1426
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    here's the issue in a Lee Atwater interview in 1981.

    http://www.bradford-delong.com/2017/...d-reading.html



    this is quote is oft-used, but usually without that very last sentence, which is telling (and darkly hilarious)-- the argument that as the GOP moved to ever more abstract dog-whistles, this was a GOP contribution to the end of racism.

    Trump might not be back to the out-and-out ****** but he sure as hell has turned dog-whistling into dog-screeching.
    That's a misrepresentation of the entire inteview, which is about how race is totally ineffective in modern politics. To the extent it ever was, the main beneficiary was George Wallace, not the GOP, and the race issue was totally swamped by Jimmy Carter being an evangelical.

    Lee Atwater: That should be a first of his. Now in 1968, the whole Southern strategy that Harry had put together, the Voting Rights Act would have been a central part of keeping the South. And now they don't have to do that.All you gotta do to keep the South is for Reagan to run in place on the issues his campaigned on since 1964. And that's fiscal conservatism, balancing the budget, cutting taxes, you know that old cluster of being tough with national defense. And it's going to be very hard for Reagan to lose.
    He goes to great lengths about how the South has modernized and essentially given up on issues like the Voting Act, and perhaps some of these conservative issues might be read as anti-black, but that's not the intended thrust at all.

    Here's another part:
    Lee Atwater: That is right. Now let me give you an example of someone who I'm very close to, that happened here. Mr. Strom Thurmond. Basically Republicans, and I think Aiden could be horseshit here but I mean that's irrelevant. Republicans still don't get elected state-wide in the South. And the reason is, this Republican party has not been able to put together a coalition of enough blue collar people, George Wallace-style voters and country club people.
    He's specifically saying that the GOP is ineffective in the South, not that the GOP swept the South using racism (which is how this interivew is popularly interpreted).
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    I think this might be the clearest example of the difference between the two parties, or maybe just the difference between the way I think and the way zraver does.

    I would never start with an us-them divide that pits a growing middle class against “racial subgroups.”
    What's going on in the U.S today has everything to do with race. Whites are being dispossessed at a staggering rate by both legal and illegal immigration, and they will soon end up a minority in their own country. Is is any wonder their is opposition to this?

    Why would any race vote themselves into a minority? In another 20-30 years white will make up about 50% of the U.S population, and around 12-15% of the global population.

    Opposition to this is not racism, nor does it have anything to do with supremacy, superiority or subjugation of other races.

    Democrats are ethno-masochicists. The country is divided, and there is no coming together between the two parties..there needs to be a divorce. Diversity & multiculturalism are all terms for anti-white, and anti-western civilization, more and more white people are waking up to this reality.

    Any whites that stick up for their race are racist...while every other race on the planet that does the same..it's okay. There is a double standard here...

    Whites in America do not want to become a minority in their own country, nor see their culture disappear, and that is exactly what is happening in the U.S.

    "Imagine how much brainwashing it would take to convince the Japanese to flood Japan with NON-Japanese until they themselves become a minority?
    To convince them to force affirmative action AGAINST THEMSELVES with all those NON-Japanese? That this “diversity” is a strength
    And to convince them that it would be 'racist' to NOT do this to themselves."
    - Jared Taylor

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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    A- Import tariffs are constitutional B- all for fair trade, but free trade has screwed the middle class worker. C- Its working, jobs are coming back, wages are rising, the Fed no longer has to inject magic money, gross tax revenues are up, and unemployment is at historic lows for everyone but felons. Clinton, Bush, Obama... 24 years of your ideas lead to the biggest economic collapse since the great depression, the loss of millions of jobs and a declining standard of living. Your text books are wrong.
    I disagree with this brief summary of analysis and believe it is fundamentally misguided. First who was President when the 2008 crash happened? Bush I think... did he practice 'democrat economics'? If you think he did please describe how at least instead of labeling him with same brush as his political opponents.

    Second the basics are just wrong; the crash was caused in the first place by a lack of regulation over the banks handing out mortgages to people who could not afford to repay them - the so called "sub prime mortgage" lending which the US banks wrapped up in bundles and sold on as trade-able assets to others - particularly in the derivative markets. It also had earlier origins in my opinion originating from the Fed interest rate policy following the 'dot.com' crash but we have discussed that before. The problem was the reaction to the 2008 crash when Governments all over bailed out the banks (who's fault it had been) rather than the people; I recall the phrase "too big to fail" at the time. The people who got sold the dodgy mortgages lost - as did all those who owed money to the banks - but the banks got off scot free. The Central Banks started making money out of nowhere for God sake - not to help the now homeless - but to help the banks. It is true that money does not grow on trees - it is typed into a Central Bank computer. That was what lost people their homes and jobs - not some imaginary established "24 years of your ideas" - essentially lending too much money to people who could not afford the repayments. What caused Trump (and others of that ilk) was the misguided response.

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    GVChamp,

    That's a misrepresentation of the entire inteview, which is about how race is totally ineffective in modern politics. To the extent it ever was, the main beneficiary was George Wallace, not the GOP, and the race issue was totally swamped by Jimmy Carter being an evangelical.
    He goes to great lengths about how the South has modernized and essentially given up on issues like the Voting Act, and perhaps some of these conservative issues might be read as anti-black, but that's not the intended thrust at all.
    i don't think that he was saying "race is totally ineffective in modern politics".

    Race could become an issue. But for that someone had to be soft on the issue, but no one was. So everyone was operating within the framework of a segregated society. So race never became an issue...

    So, the blue collar voter in 1964 goes for Goldwater, he carries big percentage—remember the other two votes stay the same. 1968 the blue collar voter goes for George Wallace and carries the same voters on. 1972 he goes for Nixon. 1976 he goes for Carter, and we're leading up to my own strategy in the Deep South in 1980. The whole focus group in the South is that blue collar voter. Now that's important when we talk about the race relations thing, because he's also the guy that's most threatened by the Blacks and he's also prone to be “a racist”.

    Until 1980, and a little bit until 76, the race issue was how you approach that man.


    But the bottom line is, I gotta look here. The bottom line is it's a mainstream thing now, and it's not grounded in racism as much as it kind of the “Network” movie syndrome: "I'm mad as hell and I can't take it.”
    he's saying that the GOP didn't need to be explicitly racist anymore because explicit racism wasn't a political winner given that the new generation in the South could tolerate stuff like the Voting Rights Act.

    that's why he said that Reagan's economic platform could appeal to both See/Hear-no-evil moderates as well as the old George Wallace voters, because "subconsciously maybe that [blacks getting hurt economically worse than whites] is part of it".

    Atwater's main delusion here is thinking that just because Reagan is dog-whistling quietly instead of dog-whistling loudly (Nixon) or being outright racist (Wallace)-- "But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract and that coded, that we're doing away with the racial problem one way or the other."-- that means racism "coming on the back burner".

    ===

    so the reason why i brought this interview up was to address your point here:

    This idea that all GOPers are racist and hate all non-White people is not reality.
    i agree. but as with most things this is not an "either-or" statement; people can hold racist views of differing degrees of extremity ("model minority" vs "black savage rapists"), and while the GOP is not wholly back to a Nixonian Southern Strategy, it's hard not to argue that Trump has considerably louder dog-whistles than GOP candidates of the last decade or two past. i mean, the whole campaign against the kneeling NFL players, or the Mexican rapists, or threatening military action in regards to the Honduran migrant caravan-- he's essentially one step away from saying ******, ******, ******...which he may possibly have done anyways, to the fear of Trump officialdom, lol.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Where was the natural business cycle under Bush and Obama? Too much regulation meant we had a de facto if not de jure command economy in many sectors. It didn't work.
    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteDreams View Post
    What's going on in the U.S today has everything to do with race. Whites are being dispossessed at a staggering rate by both legal and illegal immigration, and they will soon end up a minority in their own country. Is is any wonder their is opposition to this?

    Why would any race vote themselves into a minority? In another 20-30 years white will make up about 50% of the U.S population, and around 12-15% of the global population.

    Opposition to this is not racism, nor does it have anything to do with supremacy, superiority or subjugation of other races.

    Democrats are ethno-masochicists. The country is divided, and there is no coming together between the two parties..there needs to be a divorce. Diversity & multiculturalism are all terms for anti-white, and anti-western civilization, more and more white people are waking up to this reality.

    Any whites that stick up for their race are racist...while every other race on the planet that does the same..it's okay. There is a double standard here...

    Whites in America do not want to become a minority in their own country, nor see their culture disappear, and that is exactly what is happening in the U.S.

    "Imagine how much brainwashing it would take to convince the Japanese to flood Japan with NON-Japanese until they themselves become a minority?
    To convince them to force affirmative action AGAINST THEMSELVES with all those NON-Japanese? That this “diversity” is a strength
    And to convince them that it would be 'racist' to NOT do this to themselves."
    - Jared Taylor
    That is xenophobia at best, racism at worst. Other races have been doing fine as minorities. Why are white people worried? Distrust of other races, sounds a little like racism to me. 50% is by no means a minority. Given how many other races there are.

    I the way in which you brought up affirmative action. This is exactly what antimony meant by acceptance. Disadvantaged non-white citizens don't deserve equity because they're not real Americans.
    Last edited by hboGYT; 19 Oct 18, at 23:06.

  6. #1431
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post

    That's my problem. Liberal intelligentsia like Vox do not support democracy. They are all about delegitmizaing political opposition in all its forms and shifting the judicial system and social norms to destroy all political opposition.
    Read something (this; https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5...=NEWSSTAND0001 , or anything with the name Kris Kobach) about ALEC and the Koch Brothers / GOP voter suppression campaign. Democrats are not the ones who mistrust Democracy; we’re the one’s suing for the right to vote
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

  7. #1432
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    POLITICS
    Gov. Bill Walker Drops Out Of Alaska Gubernatorial Race Less Than 3 Weeks Before Election

    The independent governor endorsed his Democratic opponent, former Sen. Mark Begich, who is now in a tight race with Republican Mike Dunleavy

    https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5...=NEWSSTAND0001

    It’s all about healthcare ...
    Trust me?
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    Quote Originally Posted by hboGYT View Post
    That is xenophobia at best, racism at worst. Other races have been doing fine as minorities. Why are white people worried? Distrust of other races, sounds a little like racism to me. 50% is by no means a minority. Given how many other races there are.

    I the way in which you brought up affirmative action. This is exactly what antimony meant by acceptance. Disadvantaged non-white citizens don't deserve equity because they're not real Americans.
    Yep... here comes the name calling...words like Xenophobia, Islamaphobia, Racist....but any other race can stick up for itself...just not the white race..who is already a minority in terms of global population, and will soon be one in the U.S. These deogratery terms are meant as nothing more than a red herring.

    Here is a word for you... Rationalism...here's an even better word...White Rationalism. Any race with half a brain wouldn't vote themselves into a minority. It's both suicial, and genocidal. But it's okay if whites do it...right!?

    Whites are under attack, and they need to wake up.

    “There are some things that must be said so that future generations will know that at least some of us were aware, and that our generation was not entirely composed of cowards and fools.” - Guillaume Faye

    I'm probably pushing the envelope here on WAB as it seems completely taboo to have a discussion on race these days. Where are you when I need you Archie Bunker? So I will just leave it to someone more patient , and articulate than to elaborate. And I will simply leave it at that...


  9. #1434
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    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteDreams View Post
    Yep... here comes the name calling...words like Xenophobia, Islamaphobia, Racist....but any other race can stick up for itself...just not the white race..who is already a minority in terms of global population, and will soon be one in the U.S. These deogratery terms are meant as nothing more than a red herring.

    Here is a word for you... Rationalism...here's an even better word...White Rationalism. Any race with half a brain wouldn't vote themselves into a minority. It's both suicial, and genocidal. But it's okay if whites do it...right!?

    Whites are under attack, and they need to wake up.

    “There are some things that must be said so that future generations will know that at least some of us were aware, and that our generation was not entirely composed of cowards and fools.” - Guillaume Faye

    I'm probably pushing the envelope here on WAB as it seems completely taboo to have a discussion on race these days. Where are you when I need you Archie Bunker? So I will just leave it to someone more patient , and articulate than to elaborate. And I will simply leave it at that...

    You have not addressed my points at all.

    Do you deny that equity should be a core principle of any society? Do you deny that ethnic minorities face disadvantages? Do you deny that something should be done to balance out those disadvantages for the sake of equity?

    You have not shown any rationality in your defence of white rationalism? Again, so many other "races" live as minorities. What are white people afraid of and why? Demonstrate your rationalism please.

    And 50% is not minority at all. It only sounds minor if you pit whites against all non-whites. That is not how the current social dynamics work. Non-whites are not going to form a united front.

  10. #1435
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    I don't expect you too understand this but if you left the urban core and actually moved among us, you would see that we see you, not your skin color. Are there racist, yeah we have some bottom feeders but they don't tend to vote. Most of us judge a person by what they do. You can't see that your views are the racist stereotype. A growing middle class means everyone, not just urban tech workers.
    There you go again: "Us" vs "You"

    Z,

    Please cut out that "urban core" bullshit and start listening for a change. Regardless of how you perceive "us", you DO NOT know my community better than I do. I am trying to help you out here. Regardless of economic staus, within the minority communities (I have most experience with Asian and Indian here) there is a pervasive fear of not being set aside as different.

    When your demigod Steve Bannon says that having too many Asian tech CEOs undermines 'civic society', this only exacerbated the problem. Everything that has happened since Trump got elected, from Charlotsville to how they have tried to curtail legal immigration, has added on to this.

    Please do not take this personally. It is just that the fact that the regular Republican is a warm and fuzzy creature, instead of being a raging racist, is not really coming out.

    BTW, your theory that racists do not vote is ludicrous and borderline crazy-town talk
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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    Why would any race vote themselves into a minority? In another 20-30 years white will make up about 50% of the U.S population, and around 12-15% of the global population.

    Opposition to this is not racism, nor does it have anything to do with supremacy, superiority or subjugation of other races.
    actually racism is PRECISELY what this is.

    why is skin color or race an issue, if not for the sense that this confers some sort of political power?

    America and Americans are defined by the values they hold-- "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,"-- NOT by the color of their skin or blood and soil.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  12. #1437
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    actually racism is PRECISELY what this is.

    why is skin color or race an issue, if not for the sense that this confers some sort of political power?

    America and Americans are defined by the values they hold-- "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,"-- NOT by the color of their skin or blood and soil.
    +1
    Strong and a valid statement.

    Marking it to throw it at residents from 3rd world democracies who sign-up once a while and think they know all.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hboGYT View Post
    You have not addressed my points at all.
    And I don't intend to because it would be a waste of my time. I'm not going to spend my time pointing out the obvious to you...

    Look I don't want to detract, or derail this thread...my point simply that much of the political discord we are seeing in the U.S Today is the result of the changing of the ethnic composition of the country.

    Quote Originally Posted by hboGYT View Post
    Do you deny that equity should be a core principle of any society? Do you deny that ethnic minorities face disadvantages? Do you deny that
    something should be done to balance out those disadvantages for the sake of equity?
    I believe everyone of every race should have access to the same opportunities. I believe in equality of opportunity, not in equality of outcome.

    I don't think racism is as rampant as the left make it out to be, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist in some places. Nor do I believe inequality exists due to lack of opportunity.

    Where there is inequality is when people are born into low income families..then the struggle becomes much more difficult, but that struggle to get out, and become more prosperous is still feasible if your willing to work at it...and if it's not the case let the person return to their homeland. You have a better chance being disadvantaged here in the U.S than you do in most other parts of the world...

    Why have all the blacks remained in America...if America is so racist, and oppressive...why not go back to Africa where they don't have to deal with the evil mean oppressive white man. Blacks are way better off here in the U.S, and are living way better here...that's why...

    Also,the poorest people living today(outside of the homeless) are living better than the richest guy 100 years ago. Electricity, Microwaves, TV, Internet..Food stamps...etc..sure they may not be driving a Tesla,or have a 4 Bedroom home, but people aren't starving to death here in the U.S

    Quote Originally Posted by hboGYT View Post
    You have not shown any rationality in your defense of white rationalism? Again, so many other "races" live as minorities. What are white people afraid of and why? Demonstrate your rationalism please.
    Look I don't suffer from white guilt. If you think you won't have equal opportunity in the United States..then don't come here to the U.S. Why are non-whites flocking to the racist 'white' America where they will be discriminated against, where they won't be given the same opportunities. The U.S and whites around the world don't owe the rest of the world anything. No other ethnic groups besides whites has this guilt complex where they think they owe other races something.

    Virtually every other place on earth where races live in minorities there is conflict.

    Why does race matter? Ask the Armenians, the Jews, the ethnic kurds, kulaks, the Tra Rawandands, the list goes on and on and on...open a history book for christ sake. I'm not going to explain this stuff..too many people especially leftist are living in la la land, and have no notion of what humans have done in the past, what humans are capable of, or the biological nature of humans.

    What's worse is the arrogance by many who are far more intellectually superior than I am..that somehow humans have arrived at a point here in 2018 where things that happened in the past couldn't happen again because today we are so morally superior and so 'conscious' that things in the past could never happen again. The arrogance of these types of attitudes is pervasive amongst leftist thinkers, and a danger to everyone around them, which includes me because they vote.

    These are the types of questions that if you don't get it..no amount of dialogue we have is going to change that...and it's simply a waste of my time.

    And in my mind, and this is the major problem of the far left is that they live in an alternate universe (No doubt of which you are apart, or your a non-white). The left lives in a the world they way they wish it to be ('it's a small word after all' type of world - Tajikistan Bike Ride anyone?) vs. the reality of the way the world is (Murder, Mayhem, Genocide...WWI,WW2,etc, etc,etc, War after War..oh and we btw we invented something called a nuclear bomb just to demonstrate the peaceful and altruistic nature of human nature).

    I remember when I was a little kid, and first finding out about what a nuclear bomb was. I was like..they..the humans..."They did what!?"...Oh Yes they created a nuclear bomb...wow what wonderful hearts and good intentions humans have...Your probably going to point out it was built by whites right?

    I'm talking about human nature...and just trying to contrast the evil that exists in the world. I think I'm a pretty good guy with an average IQ, and I don't need to look any further than my own heart to know the evils that others are capable of because I know what I'm capable of.

    As IQ lowers there is going to be a greater propensity for violence and conflict...if the entire world had a super high IQ, and strong impulse control then there would be a higher likelihood for peace and co-existence amongst all races. But even then there are so many other factors involved it would still be extremely difficult. This is race realism...leftist think everyone thinks like them and shares the same values...they are living in a bubble.

    What is a democrat? Someone so open minded their brains have fallen out...

    The right wishes the world was the way the left think it's it but knows that it's not way. Peace, love, equality, prosperity...everyone decent human wants these things for all people, anyone who has a semblance of humanity wants others to be well off, but the reality is the world is a cruel, and brutal place and you better take care of your own first, and if you can help others along the way you should, but certainly not at the cost of your own survival...that is pathological altruism, and that is where the U.S has arrived thanks to the brain dead left. This is what is happening on the Macrocosm..dispossession of whites.


    Quote Originally Posted by hboGYT View Post
    And 50% is not minority at all. It only sounds minor if you pit whites against all non-whites. That is not how the current social dynamics work. Non-whites are not going to form a united front.
    Since 1965 when whites we're a 90% of the U.S population it's taken only 50 years to where whites now make up 60-70% of the population. Now in another 20-30 years if trends continue whites will be 50% of the population. And you keep saying but 50% isn't a minority like this is a fixed number...how about in another 100 years what will be be whites 25%, and then in 200 years from then...then what..10%, 8%, 5%?

    Opposition to this is not racism. Any race on earth would oppose this doing this to themselves.

    The founding father set up the U.S to be a white nation...a nation of white European immigrants...not a free for all like the left wants in order to get more votes, or the right to get cheap labor. That doesn't make it racist any more than China being for Chinese, or Japanese being for Japanese...

    I'm not advocating for a 100% white America...that would be boring, and other races have made many contributions to America being great. There is no doubt about this. I don't want to see whites become a minority in their own country... and we're well on our way to becoming just that.No race, regardless of color, should allow themselves to become a minority in their own country…it’s an abomination.
    Last edited by InfiniteDreams; 20 Oct 18, at 17:58.

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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    actually racism is PRECISELY what this is.

    why is skin color or race an issue, if not for the sense that this confers some sort of political power?

    America and Americans are defined by the values they hold-- "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,"-- NOT by the color of their skin or blood and soil.
    Tell that to the founding fathers...

    Again, it's only in white stick up for themselves it's racist. I don't expect a leftist or a non-white to understand...

    Take the great white American ideal "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal," back to your country. It's a great ideal...I think all nations should adopt it...make your own countries better, and build up your own civilizations...

    This is what I love about democrats..the hypocrisy..everyone is Americans when it suits them. Culture trumps race...that doesn't mean race doesn't play a role, and doesn't detract one iota from my argument that whites are being dispossessed.

    And tell your democratic leader as well Nancy Pelosi...with her identity politics that..there aren't blacks, whites, mexicans, gays, christians, muslims...we're all just americans. Spread the word Astralis...



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    Again, it's only in white stick up for themselves it's racist. I don't expect a leftist or a non-white to understand...
    yup, racist. bye.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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