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Thread: 2018 American Political Scene

  1. #1426
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    here's the issue in a Lee Atwater interview in 1981.

    http://www.bradford-delong.com/2017/...d-reading.html



    this is quote is oft-used, but usually without that very last sentence, which is telling (and darkly hilarious)-- the argument that as the GOP moved to ever more abstract dog-whistles, this was a GOP contribution to the end of racism.

    Trump might not be back to the out-and-out ****** but he sure as hell has turned dog-whistling into dog-screeching.
    That's a misrepresentation of the entire inteview, which is about how race is totally ineffective in modern politics. To the extent it ever was, the main beneficiary was George Wallace, not the GOP, and the race issue was totally swamped by Jimmy Carter being an evangelical.

    Lee Atwater: That should be a first of his. Now in 1968, the whole Southern strategy that Harry had put together, the Voting Rights Act would have been a central part of keeping the South. And now they don't have to do that.All you gotta do to keep the South is for Reagan to run in place on the issues his campaigned on since 1964. And that's fiscal conservatism, balancing the budget, cutting taxes, you know that old cluster of being tough with national defense. And it's going to be very hard for Reagan to lose.
    He goes to great lengths about how the South has modernized and essentially given up on issues like the Voting Act, and perhaps some of these conservative issues might be read as anti-black, but that's not the intended thrust at all.

    Here's another part:
    Lee Atwater: That is right. Now let me give you an example of someone who I'm very close to, that happened here. Mr. Strom Thurmond. Basically Republicans, and I think Aiden could be horseshit here but I mean that's irrelevant. Republicans still don't get elected state-wide in the South. And the reason is, this Republican party has not been able to put together a coalition of enough blue collar people, George Wallace-style voters and country club people.
    He's specifically saying that the GOP is ineffective in the South, not that the GOP swept the South using racism (which is how this interivew is popularly interpreted).
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  2. #1427
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    I think this might be the clearest example of the difference between the two parties, or maybe just the difference between the way I think and the way zraver does.

    I would never start with an us-them divide that pits a growing middle class against “racial subgroups.”
    What's going on in the U.S today has everything to do with race. Whites are being dispossessed at a staggering rate by both legal and illegal immigration, and they will soon end up a minority in their own country. Is is any wonder their is opposition to this?

    Why would any race vote themselves into a minority? In another 20-30 years white will make up about 50% of the U.S population, and around 12-15% of the global population.

    Opposition to this is not racism, nor does it have anything to do with supremacy, superiority or subjugation of other races.

    Democrats are ethno-masochicists. The country is divided, and there is no coming together between the two parties..there needs to be a divorce. Diversity & multiculturalism are all terms for anti-white, and anti-western civilization, more and more white people are waking up to this reality.

    Any whites that stick up for their race are racist...while every other race on the planet that does the same..it's okay. There is a double standard here...

    Whites in America do not want to become a minority in their own country, nor see their culture disappear, and that is exactly what is happening in the U.S.

    "Imagine how much brainwashing it would take to convince the Japanese to flood Japan with NON-Japanese until they themselves become a minority?
    To convince them to force affirmative action AGAINST THEMSELVES with all those NON-Japanese? That this “diversity” is a strength
    And to convince them that it would be 'racist' to NOT do this to themselves."
    - Jared Taylor
    The purpose of all war is ultimately peace. - Saint Augustine
    For it tis' the doom of men that they forget. - Merlin the Magician
    The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein

  3. #1428
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    A- Import tariffs are constitutional B- all for fair trade, but free trade has screwed the middle class worker. C- Its working, jobs are coming back, wages are rising, the Fed no longer has to inject magic money, gross tax revenues are up, and unemployment is at historic lows for everyone but felons. Clinton, Bush, Obama... 24 years of your ideas lead to the biggest economic collapse since the great depression, the loss of millions of jobs and a declining standard of living. Your text books are wrong.
    I disagree with this brief summary of analysis and believe it is fundamentally misguided. First who was President when the 2008 crash happened? Bush I think... did he practice 'democrat economics'? If you think he did please describe how at least instead of labeling him with same brush as his political opponents.

    Second the basics are just wrong; the crash was caused in the first place by a lack of regulation over the banks handing out mortgages to people who could not afford to repay them - the so called "sub prime mortgage" lending which the US banks wrapped up in bundles and sold on as trade-able assets to others - particularly in the derivative markets. It also had earlier origins in my opinion originating from the Fed interest rate policy following the 'dot.com' crash but we have discussed that before. The problem was the reaction to the 2008 crash when Governments all over bailed out the banks (who's fault it had been) rather than the people; I recall the phrase "too big to fail" at the time. The people who got sold the dodgy mortgages lost - as did all those who owed money to the banks - but the banks got off scot free. The Central Banks started making money out of nowhere for God sake - not to help the now homeless - but to help the banks. It is true that money does not grow on trees - it is typed into a Central Bank computer. That was what lost people their homes and jobs - not some imaginary established "24 years of your ideas" - essentially lending too much money to people who could not afford the repayments. What caused Trump (and others of that ilk) was the misguided response.

  4. #1429
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    GVChamp,

    That's a misrepresentation of the entire inteview, which is about how race is totally ineffective in modern politics. To the extent it ever was, the main beneficiary was George Wallace, not the GOP, and the race issue was totally swamped by Jimmy Carter being an evangelical.
    He goes to great lengths about how the South has modernized and essentially given up on issues like the Voting Act, and perhaps some of these conservative issues might be read as anti-black, but that's not the intended thrust at all.
    i don't think that he was saying "race is totally ineffective in modern politics".

    Race could become an issue. But for that someone had to be soft on the issue, but no one was. So everyone was operating within the framework of a segregated society. So race never became an issue...

    So, the blue collar voter in 1964 goes for Goldwater, he carries big percentage—remember the other two votes stay the same. 1968 the blue collar voter goes for George Wallace and carries the same voters on. 1972 he goes for Nixon. 1976 he goes for Carter, and we're leading up to my own strategy in the Deep South in 1980. The whole focus group in the South is that blue collar voter. Now that's important when we talk about the race relations thing, because he's also the guy that's most threatened by the Blacks and he's also prone to be “a racist”.

    Until 1980, and a little bit until 76, the race issue was how you approach that man.


    But the bottom line is, I gotta look here. The bottom line is it's a mainstream thing now, and it's not grounded in racism as much as it kind of the “Network” movie syndrome: "I'm mad as hell and I can't take it.”
    he's saying that the GOP didn't need to be explicitly racist anymore because explicit racism wasn't a political winner given that the new generation in the South could tolerate stuff like the Voting Rights Act.

    that's why he said that Reagan's economic platform could appeal to both See/Hear-no-evil moderates as well as the old George Wallace voters, because "subconsciously maybe that [blacks getting hurt economically worse than whites] is part of it".

    Atwater's main delusion here is thinking that just because Reagan is dog-whistling quietly instead of dog-whistling loudly (Nixon) or being outright racist (Wallace)-- "But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract and that coded, that we're doing away with the racial problem one way or the other."-- that means racism "coming on the back burner".

    ===

    so the reason why i brought this interview up was to address your point here:

    This idea that all GOPers are racist and hate all non-White people is not reality.
    i agree. but as with most things this is not an "either-or" statement; people can hold racist views of differing degrees of extremity ("model minority" vs "black savage rapists"), and while the GOP is not wholly back to a Nixonian Southern Strategy, it's hard not to argue that Trump has considerably louder dog-whistles than GOP candidates of the last decade or two past. i mean, the whole campaign against the kneeling NFL players, or the Mexican rapists, or threatening military action in regards to the Honduran migrant caravan-- he's essentially one step away from saying ******, ******, ******...which he may possibly have done anyways, to the fear of Trump officialdom, lol.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  5. #1430
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Where was the natural business cycle under Bush and Obama? Too much regulation meant we had a de facto if not de jure command economy in many sectors. It didn't work.
    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteDreams View Post
    What's going on in the U.S today has everything to do with race. Whites are being dispossessed at a staggering rate by both legal and illegal immigration, and they will soon end up a minority in their own country. Is is any wonder their is opposition to this?

    Why would any race vote themselves into a minority? In another 20-30 years white will make up about 50% of the U.S population, and around 12-15% of the global population.

    Opposition to this is not racism, nor does it have anything to do with supremacy, superiority or subjugation of other races.

    Democrats are ethno-masochicists. The country is divided, and there is no coming together between the two parties..there needs to be a divorce. Diversity & multiculturalism are all terms for anti-white, and anti-western civilization, more and more white people are waking up to this reality.

    Any whites that stick up for their race are racist...while every other race on the planet that does the same..it's okay. There is a double standard here...

    Whites in America do not want to become a minority in their own country, nor see their culture disappear, and that is exactly what is happening in the U.S.

    "Imagine how much brainwashing it would take to convince the Japanese to flood Japan with NON-Japanese until they themselves become a minority?
    To convince them to force affirmative action AGAINST THEMSELVES with all those NON-Japanese? That this “diversity” is a strength
    And to convince them that it would be 'racist' to NOT do this to themselves."
    - Jared Taylor
    That is xenophobia at best, racism at worst. Other races have been doing fine as minorities. Why are white people worried? Distrust of other races, sounds a little like racism to me. 50% is by no means a minority. Given how many other races there are.

    I the way in which you brought up affirmative action. This is exactly what antimony meant by acceptance. Disadvantaged non-white citizens don't deserve equity because they're not real Americans.
    Last edited by hboGYT; Yesterday at 23:06.

  6. #1431
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post

    That's my problem. Liberal intelligentsia like Vox do not support democracy. They are all about delegitmizaing political opposition in all its forms and shifting the judicial system and social norms to destroy all political opposition.
    Read something (this; https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5...=NEWSSTAND0001 , or anything with the name Kris Kobach) about ALEC and the Koch Brothers / GOP voter suppression campaign. Democrats are not the ones who mistrust Democracy; we’re the one’s suing for the right to vote
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

  7. #1432
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    POLITICS
    Gov. Bill Walker Drops Out Of Alaska Gubernatorial Race Less Than 3 Weeks Before Election

    The independent governor endorsed his Democratic opponent, former Sen. Mark Begich, who is now in a tight race with Republican Mike Dunleavy

    https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5...=NEWSSTAND0001

    It’s all about healthcare ...
    Trust me?
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  8. #1433
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    Quote Originally Posted by hboGYT View Post
    That is xenophobia at best, racism at worst. Other races have been doing fine as minorities. Why are white people worried? Distrust of other races, sounds a little like racism to me. 50% is by no means a minority. Given how many other races there are.

    I the way in which you brought up affirmative action. This is exactly what antimony meant by acceptance. Disadvantaged non-white citizens don't deserve equity because they're not real Americans.
    Yep... here comes the name calling...words like Xenophobia, Islamaphobia, Racist....but any other race can stick up for itself...just not the white race..who is already a minority in terms of global population, and will soon be one in the U.S. These deogratery terms are meant as nothing more than a red herring.

    Here is a word for you... Rationalism...here's an even better word...White Rationalism. Any race with half a brain wouldn't vote themselves into a minority. It's both suicial, and genocidal. But it's okay if whites do it...right!?

    Whites are under attack, and they need to wake up.

    “There are some things that must be said so that future generations will know that at least some of us were aware, and that our generation was not entirely composed of cowards and fools.” - Guillaume Faye

    I'm probably pushing the envelope here on WAB as it seems completely taboo to have a discussion on race these days. Where are you when I need you Archie Bunker? So I will just leave it to someone more patient , and articulate than to elaborate. And I will simply leave it at that...

    The purpose of all war is ultimately peace. - Saint Augustine
    For it tis' the doom of men that they forget. - Merlin the Magician
    The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein

  9. #1434
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    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteDreams View Post
    Yep... here comes the name calling...words like Xenophobia, Islamaphobia, Racist....but any other race can stick up for itself...just not the white race..who is already a minority in terms of global population, and will soon be one in the U.S. These deogratery terms are meant as nothing more than a red herring.

    Here is a word for you... Rationalism...here's an even better word...White Rationalism. Any race with half a brain wouldn't vote themselves into a minority. It's both suicial, and genocidal. But it's okay if whites do it...right!?

    Whites are under attack, and they need to wake up.

    “There are some things that must be said so that future generations will know that at least some of us were aware, and that our generation was not entirely composed of cowards and fools.” - Guillaume Faye

    I'm probably pushing the envelope here on WAB as it seems completely taboo to have a discussion on race these days. Where are you when I need you Archie Bunker? So I will just leave it to someone more patient , and articulate than to elaborate. And I will simply leave it at that...

    You have not addressed my points at all.

    Do you deny that equity should be a core principle of any society? Do you deny that ethnic minorities face disadvantages? Do you deny that something should be done to balance out those disadvantages for the sake of equity?

    You have not shown any rationality in your defence of white rationalism? Again, so many other "races" live as minorities. What are white people afraid of and why? Demonstrate your rationalism please.

    And 50% is not minority at all. It only sounds minor if you pit whites against all non-whites. That is not how the current social dynamics work. Non-whites are not going to form a united front.

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