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2018 American Political Scene

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  • Originally posted by astralis View Post
    Trump's election will be seen as the Pearl Harbor for the GOP.
    The way Obama's was for the Dems? Guess we will see come mid terms.

    Comment


    • we certainly will, but i actually meant this in a more long-term sense. George W Bush essentially turned Millennials to the left. Trump is doing the same thing with Gen Z.
      There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

      Comment


      • Millennials are ethnically not the same as other generations, which is a major reason why they vote left. 2016 exit polls I am seeing on CNN say Trump still won white voters in the Millennial bracket (though by not as large a margin as he did among older generations).

        Now the Facebook feed is probably trending damned liberal, but that's because Yuppie Liberals live in the isolated bubbles that thought Mondale, Dukkakis, and McGovern were just awesome guys. That and people increasingly live in polarized counties and in polarized social groups. I think I know like one evangelical protestant and they make up a huge chunk of the nation. That's a bubble. And if I am living in a bubble, I am damn sure everyone else is too.

        Also you might not like some of their actual policies, they aren't neo-liberals! It's not like these are the kind of Democrats we've been used to for the last couple decades. They are as toxic to the Democratic establishment as they are to the GOP (much like the Tea Party is a den of snakes that makes it impossible for the GOP leadership to govern).
        Last edited by GVChamp; 10 Sep 18,, 14:50.
        "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

        Comment


        • GVChamp,

          Millennials are ethnically not the same as other generations, which is a major reason why they vote left.
          pretty sure it's in the "all of the above" category, and intertwined. to paraphrase the old lefty quote, ethnicity is not destiny, with al gore just barely edging past bush in the under-30s in 2000 (the first year the oldest Millennials could vote). between Bush and the trend of the GOP to go all-in for the disgruntled blue-collar white vote, things have changed.

          2016 exit polls I am seeing on CNN say Trump still won white voters in the Millennial bracket (though by not as large a margin as he did among older generations)
          Trump actually did rather worse among white millennials than Romney as a whole. but Trump did rather better in crucial swing-states among the non-college educated whites, Millennials included.

          in any case, there was a lot of excited talk among conservatives and the usual lefty hand-wringing over the supposed more-conservative tendencies of Gen Z, but Trump is doing his best to cure them of -that- particular notion.
          There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

          Comment


          • Originally posted by snapper View Post
            AR,

            I do not the political balance of parties in any country should be a constraint on the duty of a public servant.
            Totally concur
            “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
            Mark Twain

            Comment


            • Gen Z is f'ing weird. Now I understand how older generations felt about my generation.
              "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

              Comment


              • Originally posted by GVChamp View Post
                Gen Z is f'ing weird. Now I understand how older generations felt about my generation.
                I guess next you'll tell them to get off your lawn...
                “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                Mark Twain

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                  I guess next you'll tell them to get off your lawn...
                  I literally had to do that just the other day and I'm only in my mid-twenties. This is how it starts isn't it?
                  "Draft beer, not people."

                  Comment


                  • Millennials don't have lawns for the Gen Z to get off of!!!
                    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                    Comment


                    • I am okay with the neighbor kids running around the back yard, because it's basically a shared backyard (and I like my neighbor). Now if the daughter would stop picking my damn strawberries, we'd be golden...

                      Our lawn was about 50-60% weeds when we moved in. Now it's actually grass! Grass!
                      "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                        Dissagree if for no more reason than Bush 43 and Obama wrecked the international order.



                        The way Obama's was for the Dems? Guess we will see come mid terms.
                        Enought of the false equivalence already! Don’t pull that “oh, well, everyone does it” and expct to get away with it around here.
                        Trust me?
                        I'm an economist!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by DOR View Post
                          Enought of the false equivalence already! Don’t pull that “oh, well, everyone does it” and expct to get away with it around here.
                          He has to defend Trump somehow. If that's what the 'defense of Trump' has been reduced to (false equivalence), well what else did you expect?
                          “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                          Comment


                          • I don't see how it's false equivelance. The Obama years really did weaken the Dems in all sorts of places. They have been slowly shedding lower class white voters for a while, which is how previously competitive states like Ohio are now GOP leaning states, and previously blue states like PA, WI, and MI went (R) in the last election.

                            Z saying that Obama and D screwing up the international order is in response to me saying that FP is not as big of a deal as it once was.
                            "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

                            Comment


                            • So I am surprised nobody has mentioned this US judge mess... Kavannagh? No Kavanaugh. I finally had time to watch the 'testimony' from last week so that is why I have a bee in my bonnet now.

                              So I may be wrong on this but I seem to recall that a Supreme Court Judge was supposed to be appointed toward the end of Obama's second term? I am pretty sure something of sort was supposed to happen but the Republicans objected - and perhaps with good reason that the whole process should wait until after the coming election. If this is correct - and the justification for the delay then valid why does this reasoning not apply now - aren't the elections in like 5 weeks? Or is only applicable when the election is a Presidential one? Or merely only applicable when it suits one side? I am not I have the story right but if I do I hope someone can explain the applicability of this rule to me or correct my memory.

                              So I watch this 'testimony' this evening and sure the Lady does not look like a happy camper at all. Something happened to her and she is 100% certain it was this judge guy. I almost thought 'nuff said but there are problems even here: There are three accusers as I understand - one who has sign a sworn statement - so why is only accuser allowed to appear? Are the other two irrelevant? Why are they lesser? I read a bit of an interview this would be Judge did where he stressed "due process"... what about due process for the other two Ladies and for him? Why does one Lady complaint deserve to be heard but not those of others? It does not seem right to me.

                              So then I watched his 'testimony' which was a performance any self respecting human being could never have given without creasing up in tears of laughter....

                              Q. "Did you ever get so drunk so that you couldn't remember the day?"

                              A. "I went to Yale. I worked hard. I liked beer."

                              I went to Cambridge and though I would normally settle for a glass of wine after supper definitely had some nights at Uni that my pals had to help me home and I woke up wondering how I got to my bed. That is what you do at University as an undergrad; it is part of a tradition so when he refused to accept that I just do not believe it. Most normal undergrads have had some experience of the sort. It is particularly unbelievable when he room mate at the time says it's BS.

                              Then there are questions I believe whether he was legally allowed to drink at that time and place. I do not know if it was or wasn't and hell it does not really bother me if he drank under the legal age - I got watered down wine at supper whenever I was home from about 8 - but it does bother if he is lying. So perhaps someone should check definitively if his drinking was legal or not?

                              I think what strike anyone most about his 'testimony' though is his bellicose snarling self entitled anger. Non partisanship went out of the window - somehow the Clinton's were involved in a conspiracy against him. What??? It was like watching a spoiled schoolboy caught pinching sweets. I almost thought he would threaten his Dad would come 'get' someone. Yea yea pal. I went to good private schools too and good Universities; they made me above all into a Lady - they failed to make this guy into a Gentleman. I would not trust him and his anger to babysit my cat.

                              Now we have this brief FBI inquiry and I cannot make out the truth of what is going on with it. So according to Trumpkin apparently there are no limits on the FBI but according to others the FBI is only allowed to speak to certain people - apparently not including Swetnick... Well if this true and someone in the Whitehouse has imposed limits (and really for 'due process' a time limit is not acceptable) on this inquiry then it is the grievous infringement of executive authority I have known in any country. When the executive can grant dictates to limit or widen any potentially criminal investigation in a 'democracy' you are on the road to hell.

                              Comment


                              • The Kav issue has become particularly contentious here. I know everything in the Trump administration is an outrage, but this is a pretty big dust-up, even within context of the Trump administration.

                                The reason the GOP doesn't want to wait for elections is because they want their 5-4 majority as soon as possible, and they don't want to wait until the Dems possibly retake the Senate (somewhere between a 30 and 50% chance). It's just politics, same as refusing a vote on Garland. From a "norm" perspective, the Scalia vacancy was the result of a death, and maybe you can argue the GOP can stall to allow the American people to vote before a shift in court alignment. This vacancy is NOT from a death, it's from Justice Kennedy retiring, which was a conscious choice apparently done in discussion with the Trump administration. Two different kind of vacancies.


                                Both sides are pissed for their own reasons. For Dems, this is coming up in the midst of a major movement to hold men accountable for sexual harassment and rape against women. It's already forced Bill Cosby into prison and Al Franken to resign. Since Ford comes across as credible and there is a strong desire to believe women, confirming Kav comes across as putting a rapist on the Supreme Court. That's obviously a really bad thing, and rape in the American mindset is basically second only to murder. Sexual assault in general is heavily frowned upon: if you're a sitting Senator, you could probably defraud people for tens of millions and have more popularity than drunkenly groping a woman's ass, even if it happened 10, 20, or 30 years ago.


                                Also, Kav has probably lied under oath multiple times about other things.

                                For the GOP, there is no evidence of this accusation besides the accusation itself, and it popped up at the end of the hearing, even though Feinstein had the letter back in July. Also, there were two additional accusations that came up afterwards, and actually a fourth I believe, none of which were particularly credible. It comes across as smearing a candidate and GOPers really do not want to incentivize this kind of thing in the future. Especially since there's a Dem presidential hopeful who is spearheading the third accusation, which is particularly ridiculous: a woman at the time in college going to high school parties where female students were regularly raped as part of a rapist conspiracy ring led by drunken men who were intoxicated enough to rape women but not so intoxicated that they couldn't patiently wait in line for their turn to rape high school girls, which is a very specific kind of intoxicated.


                                I didn't watch much of the testimony so I can't say how it came off. The media says Kav came off as angry and unhinged, but I don't really trust a damn thing they or Twitter or my liberal friends on FB say.

                                Also, blacking out while drunk is not something all people experience.
                                Here's a study:
                                https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publicati...-2/186-196.htm
                                If only two-thirds of hospitalized alcoholics have experienced blackouts, that means you have AT LEAST tens of millions of Americans who have never experienced an alcoholic blackout, and probably way more. You're quite possibly in the minority if you've had a blackout. I know I personally have never had a blackout, and I've been intoxicated enough to vomit multiple times on the way to the bathroom, vomited again in the bathroom, and then passed out.
                                Last edited by GVChamp; 30 Sep 18,, 21:03.
                                "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

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