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Thread: 2018 American Political Scene

  1. #1216
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    Thanks I'll check it out!
    Also read THE REBELS' REVENGE about a slave who eventually became a force in South Carolina politics as a member of the Republican Party. One can see that the Reconstruction didn't fail but was underminded by white Southern Democrats. Very illuminating of a big part of Southern history that many try to ignore or gloss over. Enough so that, in my opinion, the South deserves to have all Confederate monuments taken down after reading what they perpetrated against blacks from pretty much 1868 and even try today with voter restrictions. To think right after the war the population of South Carolina was 1.1 million of which 600,000 were black citizens.

  2. #1217
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monash View Post
    Thanks for the update DOR, precise and informative as usual. Have to say though that as far as 'left wing' agendas go it seems a pretty thin list. For a start I would have thought reducing the deficit was pretty much orthodox Republican doctrine, albeit one the party seems quite happy to forgo if it means big tax cuts for key constituencies.
    GOPers aren't fiscal conservatives, at least not since Nixon. Somewhere in this forum is a thread where I laid out the revenues, spending, balances and debt for each administration going back to, oh, maybe FDR. GOPers consistently spent more, took more out of the economy (but, not enough to pay the bills), ran bigger deficits and hence boosted the national debt.

    As for left-wing agendas, once the GOP abandon the 80% of the political spectrum that sits in the middle, Democrats moved it and have occupied it since Bill Clinton. What Fox calls a left-wing agenda is really just middle-of-the-road. Remember, Obamacare arose out of ideas first raised by Nixon and Gov. Romney.
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  3. #1218
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    As for left-wing agendas, once the GOP abandon the 80% of the political spectrum that sits in the middle, Democrats moved it and have occupied it since Bill Clinton. What Fox calls a left-wing agenda is really just middle-of-the-road. Remember, Obamacare arose out of ideas first raised by Nixon and Gov. Romney.
    Even our most leftist marxist Democratic Socialists are at best European middle-left politicians
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  4. #1219
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    The US is not Europe, it's a collection of Europeans who left Europe because Europe sucked ass. It sucks ass much less now, but their entire politics are tilted because of centuries of shitty social relations and shitty management.

    Both parties are big-tent centrist parties.
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  5. #1220
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    The US is not Europe, it's a collection of Europeans who left Europe because Europe sucked ass. It sucks ass much less now, but their entire politics are tilted because of centuries of shitty social relations and shitty management.

    Both parties are big-tent centrist parties.
    Both parties used to be big-tent centrist parties.
    The term no longer applies to the GOP.
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  6. #1221
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    The US is not Europe, it's a collection of Europeans who left Europe because Europe sucked ass. It sucks ass much less now, but their entire politics are tilted because of centuries of shitty social relations and shitty management.

    Both parties are big-tent centrist parties.
    I generally agree with your sentiment about European politics, my point was simply to criticize the hyperbole of labeling even mainline Democrats as being Socialists/Communists by many voices on the right.

    I will have to concur with DOR though, the GOP of today is a far-cry from the big-tent party of Reagan.
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  7. #1222
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    Both parties used to be big-tent centrist parties.
    The term no longer applies to the GOP.
    No non-big tent party can win a statewide or national election in the United States.

    Frankly there are a lot of comments in this thread from people that have little day-to-day exposure of everyday life other than what they read on the internet or see on TV. Posters from Britain are more than welcome to go start threads talking about Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May and Brexit where they possess more knowledge on that topic than they do American politics. I hate Trump, but I'm a Republican, because the Democratic Party worldview does not appeal to me at all and frankly they're out to lunch on many issues. On the flipside, thinking Tory policies are not the best way forward for the UK doesn't automatically make you an anti-semite.

    Sorry to provide nuance on this thread. I know that upsets people that view the world in black and white terms.
    Last edited by rj1; 04 Sep 18, at 13:37.

  8. #1223
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    Frankly there are a lot of comments in this thread from people that have little day-to-day exposure of everyday life other than what they read on the internet or see on TV.

    RJ1,

    Could you elaborate on this statement?

    Thanks
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    I'm on a forum that mostly has British Commonwealth posters. There are off-topic threads involving Irish politics (I know they're not Commonwealth per se), British politics, Australian politics, NZ politics. They're good reads giving me an insight into things that are not covered by news in the U.S. outside of a little bit on the UK because Americans don't care. I may pop in with the occasional comment but I wouldn't consider myself an expert and therefore talking every 3rd or 4th post would be disingenuous of me when the others talking actually know more about the subject matter than I do. Throw on top of it this is the internet and therefore we have complete anonymity on display where we have no idea who the person we're talking to is, where they're from, or what they really think, and yet you have a bunch of people in "off" locations acting like Ph.D's on American politics when they posted previously for example they had no idea a cross-section of Americans hated Hillary Clinton pre-late 2016, acting like it was all Trump oppo research.

    This is a good intelligent board. I'd like it to keep that way and not become something like the Mess (former Military Photos) forum which has been hijacked by posters I'm reasonably confident are paid shills for certain groups, including ones that are rather unseemly characters in global hotspots. If your only insight into American politics is a handful of sites on the internet, in a fair world, you'd at least state as much, although I'm not expecting it.
    Last edited by rj1; 04 Sep 18, at 14:19.

  10. #1225
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Wow, explosive book by Bob Woodward to be released in 7 days. At 448 pages it is no short story. Even I couldn't think it could be this off the rails.

    Ernest Hemingway of Twitter...LMAO

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/04/polit...ear/index.html

  11. #1226
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    Quote Originally Posted by rj1 View Post
    I'm on a forum that mostly has British Commonwealth posters. There are off-topic threads involving Irish politics (I know they're not Commonwealth per se), British politics, Australian politics, NZ politics. They're good reads giving me an insight into things that are not covered by news in the U.S. outside of a little bit on the UK because Americans don't care. I may pop in with the occasional comment but I wouldn't consider myself an expert and therefore talking every 3rd or 4th post would be disingenuous of me when the others talking actually know more about the subject matter than I do. Throw on top of it this is the internet and therefore we have complete anonymity on display where we have no idea who the person we're talking to is, where they're from, or what they really think, and yet you have a bunch of people in "off" locations acting like Ph.D's on American politics when they posted previously for example they had no idea a cross-section of Americans hated Hillary Clinton pre-late 2016, acting like it was all Trump oppo research.

    This is a good intelligent board. I'd like it to keep that way and not become something like the Mess (former Military Photos) forum which has been hijacked by posters I'm reasonably confident are paid shills for certain groups, including ones that are rather unseemly characters in global hotspots. If your only insight into American politics is a handful of sites on the internet, in a fair world, you'd at least state as much, although I'm not expecting it.
    Okay....I get where you are coming from.
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  12. #1227
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    wow, explosive book by bob woodward to be released in 7 days. At 448 pages it is no short story. Even i couldn't think it could be this off the rails.

    Ernest hemingway of twitter...lmao

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/04/polit...ear/index.html

    holy....shit!
    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
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  13. #1228
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    Damning Woodward book depicts 'crazytown' Trump White House

    Washington (AFP) - The White House under President Donald Trump is mired in a perpetual "nervous breakdown" with staff constantly seeking to control a leader whose anger and paranoia can paralyze operations for days, according to a new book by Bob Woodward.

    The Washington Post, which obtained an advance copy of the book by the veteran chronicler of modern presidents, reported Tuesday that Woodward describes Trump manically pressing his staff for actions that could lead to major conflict -- leaving them little choice but to disregard his orders.

    In one anecdote, Trump questioned his National Security Council on January 19 about why the United States maintained a costly presence on the Korean peninsula.

    "We're doing this in order to prevent World War III," Defense Secretary Jim Mattis felt it necessary to inform him.

    After that meeting, according to Woodward, Mattis said to colleagues that Trump had the understanding "a fifth- or sixth-grader" -- a 10- or 11-year-old child.

    Woodward's much-awaited book, "Fear: Trump in the White House," shows aides routinely ignoring or acting to block orders by the US president.

    Gary Cohn, who was the chief White House economic advisor, went so far last year as to steal an order from Trump's desk that, if the president had signed it, would have cancelled the US-South Korea trade agreement.

    And in April 2017, after Syria's Bashar al-Assad attacked civilians with chemical weapons, Woodward reports, Trump demanded Mattis assassinate Assad.

    "Let's fucking kill him! Let's go in. Let's kill the fucking lot of them," Trump told the Pentagon chief.

    Mattis agreed to take action, but after he got off the telephone, he told an aide that the United States would take "more measured" steps against Syria -- which eventually came as a punitive air strike.

    - 'Crazytown' -

    Woodward, who does not name his sources but apparently had extensive access to many White House insiders, describes some of Trump's top aides and cabinet members as having deep disdain for him.

    Chief of staff John Kelly told colleagues he saw Trump as "unhinged" and "an idiot."

    "It's pointless to try to convince him of anything. He's gone off the rails. We're in Crazytown," Kelly said
    , according to Woodward.

    "I don't even know why any of us are here. This is the worst job I've ever had," Kelly added.

    The looming release of Woodward's book, according to reports, has had the White House on edge for weeks.

    The writer, one of a duo with Carl Bernstein whose reporting for the Post on the Watergate scandal brought down president Richard Nixon, has published powerful and often embarrassing insider books on presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama.

    The book is scheduled for official launch on September 11.
    _____________

    tbm3fan: It's been like this from Inaguration Day. But hey, at least Trump has great policies.
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
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    ‘Fox & Friends’ Scrambles to Defend Trump From Their Own Legal Expert

    It was news the hosts of Fox & Friends were apparently unprepared to hear.

    Fox News legal analyst Judge Andrew Napolitano told the anchors of Donald Trump’s favorite morning show on Tuesday that the president’s Monday tweet about the indictments of two Republican congressmen is potential “fodder” for special counsel Robert Mueller’s obstruction-of-justice probe.

    “When the president says these things—basically, ‘I want you to use the Justice Department to help the Republican Party’—that is fodder for the cannon of Bob Mueller and the never-Trumpers,” said Napolitano. “It’s his using his own words out of his own mouth to help put him in a box of the use of government for political purposes.”

    In a Monday tweet, Trump accused Attorney General Jeff Sessions of jeopardizing the Republican Party with the indictments of Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-CA) and Rep. Chris Collins (R-NY).

    “Two long running, Obama era, investigations of two very popular Republican Congressmen were brought to a well publicized charge, just ahead of the Mid-Terms, by the Jeff Sessions Justice Department. Two easy wins now in doubt because there is not enough time. Good job Jeff......” he wrote.

    To the stiffly silent Fox & Friends hosts, Napolitano further defended the Justice Department, saying it would have been “most unwise” to wait until after the midterm elections to indict Hunter and Collins.

    Host Brian Kilmeade responded in defense of the president with speculative questions about whether the DOJ had the evidence to indict earlier and waited until the last minute. Link
    ______________

    Our Shit-For-Brains-In-Chief continues to demonstrate his genius. Even his own propaganda organ (emphasis on "organ") can't keep their own guests from calling a spade a spade
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

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