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Thread: 2018 American Political Scene

  1. #1201
    Senior Contributor bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    false equivalence.

    IE, there's a good reason why Obama and Bush never faced a special counsel, and why despite the best efforts of the Republicans, they couldn't actually -pin- anything on HRC.

    for that matter, Obama was about as ethically honest and -personally good- of a politician as they come, and Republicans still detested him like the coming of the anti-Christ.

    i detest this "they are all crooks and charlatans" argument because it is the precise cynical argument that truly corrupt dictatorial regimes use against democratic governance. yes, there are SOME crooks and liars, such as the current US President and people like Representative Duncan Hunter. they will be removed, whether sooner or late, and better people will take their place.
    Obama was far more likable, no question about that, but he flipped on issues at it suited him and he had plenty of dishonest dealings while in office. Those on his side are all too willing to overlook those things and that is human nature. As for the rampant corruption, If you dont honestly look at the big picture you will never solve the problem. A nest of crooks is no excuse to do nothing. It is the reason to put forth some effort to remove ALL those in power and replace them with at the very least, less corrupt individuals, and at best, insert individuals willing to do what is best for the country and be willing to work with others to that effect. Too many in office forgot the fact that while they are leading the country, they are also serving the country.
    Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

  2. #1202
    Senior Contributor bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    In 2016 maybe, but there's not much reason to back Trump to the hilt at this particular point. Even if the Dems control the House, they can't actually push legislation through without Senate and Presidential approval. A confirmation for kavanaugh makes supporting Trump that much less important.

    Letting the government go into lame duck status for the next 2 years isn't that big of a deal. An impeachment of Trump (if collusion with Russia can be substantially proven) is a better move than letting the Trump presidency continue.

    Come 2020 I'd rather see a vigorous nomination process than just letting Trump get a free pass on the GOP ticket. Practically anyone in the GOP stable would be a better President than Trump, both on the politics and the policy. This guy really, really sucks.

    Trump is in a position to make a HUGE impact for conservatives on the Supreme Court for years, if not decades to come. If Trump gets Kavanaugh and one more in, the cards will be stacked against liberals for a long long time. That is huge. They will back Trump for that reason alone. Those Justices Trump is nominating dont owe Trump a thing once they get confirmed. Many in the country are still holding out for universal carry, a border wall, being tougher on illegals, more manufacturing coming back and more, but all that is in peril if Trump loses, or if "God forbid" liberals regain control. No one in 2016 could have beaten the poilitical machine Hillary was, but Trump. The reality is that "to be a better president" you have to win the election. If you dont go all in, you cast doubts among the voters and that is a recipe to lose. Lose the Whitehouse, the senate and the house of representatives.
    Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

  3. #1203
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    Obama was far more likable, no question about that, but he flipped on issues at it suited him and he had plenty of dishonest dealings while in office. Those on his side are all too willing to overlook those things and that is human nature. As for the rampant corruption, If you dont honestly look at the big picture you will never solve the problem. A nest of crooks is no excuse to do nothing. It is the reason to put forth some effort to remove ALL those in power and replace them with at the very least, less corrupt individuals, and at best, insert individuals willing to do what is best for the country and be willing to work with others to that effect. Too many in office forgot the fact that while they are leading the country, they are also serving the country.
    Nonsense, to use the PC term.
    Changing policy positions is the thinnest straw man I’ve ever seen from a Wabbit.
    “He had plenty of dishonest dealings while in office” is one of those statements that has no support in fact, is so worded as to be insultingly meaningless and is purely designed to divert attention from actual criminal and otherwise dishonest dealings.
    Since there is no substance to the accusation, the subsequent “all too willing to overlook” is another flat out departure from reality.
    Switching subjects to Trump’s “rampant corruption,” the introduction of “the big picture” is further introduction of nonsense aiming to cloud, not clear the air.
    If you can’t tell the difference between the single most ethically upright person to hold The Office of the Presidency, and the current resident, then you are not living up to the standards I expect here.
    Trust me?
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  4. #1204
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    Where have you been for the past 18 months? The GOP is committing suicide, right now.
    And if they lose the primary, the rope they are tightening around themselves will come loose real soon. Then its back to screwing the Dems, who really do not need any help in that regard

    Asty

    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    Trump and the GOP can always amp up a blame game regardless of what the Dems do. taking the House gives the Dems some power, which is a hell of a lot better than no power at all and mentally jerking off to visions of liberal dominance after the GOP turns America into a hellhole...:-) in fact, this is similar to some of the conservative dreams on WAB a few years back about California melting down and turning red again, lol.
    What exactly do you thnk the GOP will achieve with a reduced majority that they have not with a bigger one? It is 2 years now. We have one tax reform, a bunch of failed healthcare reforms tries and lot of internal squabbling

    I definitely want Dems to take the states, that is where real power lies, but not the US Congress.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  5. #1205
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    Come 2020 I'd rather see a vigorous nomination process than just letting Trump get a free pass on the GOP ticket. Practically anyone in the GOP stable would be a better President than Trump, both on the politics and the policy. This guy really, really sucks.
    The good Senator McCain has now left us (he was too old anyway). Who do you think has the balls to take this particular dick on? Anyone trying that within GOP wakes us with multiple stab would in the back, and the front.

    Welcome to President Trump 2020.
    Last edited by antimony; 26 Aug 18, at 16:48.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  6. #1206
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    I read somewhere, CNN or Guardian (can't remember), that Republicans are talking about President Trump's impeachment more than the Democrats. So an impeachment is likely in some months? The President should de-activate his Twitter account. It's just, embarrassing, and I'm not even an American. Diplomacy is best, behind the doors. Why doesn't he understand this.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

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  7. #1207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    Why doesn't he understand this.
    He can't. He's incapable of understand it. His brain is badly miswired.

    Does any of this sound familiar?

    Signs and symptoms of Narcissistic Personality Disorder and the severity of symptoms vary. People with the disorder can:

    • Have an exaggerated sense of self-importance
    • Have a sense of entitlement and require constant, excessive admiration
    • Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
    • Exaggerate achievements and talents
    • Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
    • Believe they are superior and can only associate with equally special people
    • Monopolize conversations and belittle or look down on people they perceive as inferior
    • Expect special favors and unquestioning compliance with their expectations
    • Take advantage of others to get what they want
    • Have an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
    • Be envious of others and believe others envy them
    • Behave in an arrogant or haughty manner, coming across as conceited, boastful and pretentious
    • Insist on having the best of everything — for instance, the best car or office


    Or any of this?

    At the same time, people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder have trouble handling anything they perceive as criticism, and they can:

    • Become impatient or angry when they don't receive special treatment
    • Have significant interpersonal problems and easily feel slighted
    • React with rage or contempt and try to belittle the other person to make themselves appear superior
    • Have difficulty regulating emotions and behavior
    • Experience major problems dealing with stress and adapting to change
    • Feel depressed and moody because they fall short of perfection
    • Have secret feelings of insecurity, shame, vulnerability and humiliation


    Those symptoms have described Donald Trump's entire life, personal, "professional" and political.

    The man is unhinged. He has, at best, an unstable personality. People like Admiral McRaven that had hoped Trump would grow into the Presidency were dreaming of the impossible.
    Trump will remain as he is and always has been until the day he dies. The only question is how much damage he'll do to America, and the rest of the world, before he leaves office in one way or another.

    This isn't "Trump Derangement Syndrome". This is cold hard reality.
    “You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if the Senate determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role… because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”
    ~ Lindsey Graham

    "The notion that you can withhold information and documents from Congress no matter whether you are the party in power or not in power is wrong. Respect for the rule of law must mean something, irrespective of the vicissitudes of political cycles."
    ~ Trey Gowdy

  8. #1208
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    Yea I looked that up just the other day and was not surprised how well it fit.

  9. #1209
    Senior Contributor Monash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    The left hates Trump because he defeated, and exposed Hillary.
    Defeated yes but exposed? Exposed what? To date as far as I am aware there are no criminal indictments pending against Ms Clinton. Any 'protection' people may imagine she was getting from the previous White House administration is long gone now so that's not an issue in play. And all the calls for indictment etc over the email 'scandal' by Republicans in Washington mysteriously seem to have evaporated as soon as she ceased to be a political threat which tends to undermine those arguments. IMO about the the only thing 'exposed' about Clinton during the election the fact that she significantly underestimated her credibility gap with the American public - and that's her problem not anyone else's.

    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    He also is erasing all the social gains the left has made.
    About the only 'significant' advance I can think of made by the 'left' during the last Presidency was Obama Care. However many Republicans also thought (and still think) the US Health system is in dire need of overhauling to improve its efficiency. I won't go into the arguments again in this post but there are a lot of previous posts on WAB that highlighted the under-performance of the US health care system pre Obama Care compared to other developed nations. I don't believe therefore that this is so much of a left/right argument as it is one about the best way to reform a grossly inefficient sector of the US economy.[/QUOTE]

    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    Trump stood up and faced the hate directed towards him from all sides and in the eyes of the voters that made him a fighter and that is what his supporters were looking for.
    Agreed. And the fact he was able to do this so effectively says a lot about the state of both major parties.
    Last edited by Monash; 27 Aug 18, at 01:52.
    If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

  10. #1210
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    From what I am told the payments to the Ladies came from the Trumpkin 'Foundation' - a charitable thing. Is this right? Is that legal over there?

  11. #1211
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    From what I am told the payments to the Ladies came from the Trumpkin 'Foundation' - a charitable thing. Is this right? Is that legal over there?
    It depends on how the charity is et up and what it's tax status is. Also if it had any ties to the campaign then they can run afoul of campaign finance laws.

    But I would suspect Mueller & team will be looking at that as well.
    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
    Mark Twain

  12. #1212
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    If one has the chance I would suggest getting a hold of the recent September 2018 Smithsonian and read the article called Barnstorming America which looks at what launched the populist conservative movement. Eerie, really eerie.

  13. #1213
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    Thanks I'll check it out!
    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
    Mark Twain

  14. #1214
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monash View Post
    About the only 'significant' advance I can think of made by the 'left' during the last Presidency was Obama Care. However many Republicans also thought (and still think) the US Health system is in dire need of overhauling to improve its efficiency. I won't go into the arguments again in this post but there are a lot of previous posts on WAB that highlighted the under-performance of the US health care system pre Obama Care compared to other developed nations. I don't believe therefore that this is so much of a left/right argument as it is one about the best way to reform a grossly inefficient sector of the US economy.
    Obama’s legacy is alive and well, at least the parts that The Trumpet’s grubby little hands can’t reach…

    Obamacare, of course tops the list.

    From The Nation, https://www.thenation.com/article/ob...acy-and-ours/; and Washington Monthly, https://washingtonmonthly.com/magazi...nts-revisited/


    Obama signed into law an expansion of the hate-crime statute to include crimes motivated by antigay bias. He ended “don’t ask, don’t tell” and, more recently, lifted the ban on transgender people serving in the military. He issued an executive order barring federal contractors from discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity. He personally endorsed marriage equality in May 2012 and refused to defend the Defense of Marriage Act,…

    He signed into law the Fair Sentencing Act of 2010, which reduced the disparity between sentences for crack and powder cocaine from 100-to-1 to 18-to-1. Obama was the first president to visit a federal prison. He directed the Justice Department to review the use of solitary confinement, leading to a 2016 guidance that reduces its use in the federal prison system, especially for juveniles and the mentally ill, and urges states to follow suit.

    Obama’s FCC issued a rule classifying internet service providers as a public utility and forced them to treat all web traffic the same, regardless of source: net neutrality.

    His administration updated a provision of the Fair Labor Standards Act to ensure overtime pay for employees making up to $47,476 a year,

    And, reduced the federal deficit from 9.8 percent of GDP in 2009 to 3.2 percent in 2016, one benefit of a strengthening economy.

    And, brought in the Hate Crimes Prevention Act in 2009, applying existing hate crime laws to crimes based on a victim’s sexual orientation, gender, or disability, in addition to race, religion, or national origin.

    And, signed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act in 2009, giving women who are paid less than men for the same work the right to sue their employers after they find out about the discrimination, even if it happened years ago.

    Not bad, not bad.
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  15. #1215
    Senior Contributor Monash's Avatar
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    Thanks for the update DOR, precise and informative as usual. Have to say though that as far as 'left wing' agendas go it seems a pretty thin list. For a start I would have thought reducing the deficit was pretty much orthodox Republican doctrine, albeit one the party seems quite happy to forgo if it means big tax cuts for key constituencies.
    If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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