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Thread: 2018 American Political Scene

  1. #1141
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    GVChamp,

    So are you saying you needed 10k more guys to kill the Taliban in 2002? Because then you have to explain why the 100k guys Obama sent still haven't wiped them out. And if your argument is "well they were entrenched at that point," then that money we spent on the 100k guys there was wasted.
    not necessarily wasted-- the situation was such that the mission was in danger of -failure- if the surge wasn't instituted.

    but it certainly was a lot less efficient of a process than if we had made the effort to more fully snuff them out in 2002-2003.

    moreover the 2nd-order spillover effects from Iraq (AQI, ISIS) played a role in the destabilization as well.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    How many additional troops and how much equipment did you need and in what time frame? Because from eye-balling the troop levels, the Bush admin continued to escalate forces throughout most of the time there, and the Obama admin really spiked the commitment. Throughout all of this, the Taliban has endured. So are you saying you needed 10k more guys to kill the Taliban in 2002? Because then you have to explain why the 100k guys Obama sent still haven't wiped them out. And if your argument is "well they were entrenched at that point," then that money we spent on the 100k guys there was wasted.

    The folks who were diverted were not Infantry Brigades. They were SOF units, MI Units, PSYOPS & Civil Affairs, Engineers...the type of folks who make a difference early in the stages to defeat an insurgency.

    Those guys all got diverted and strategic assets were retargeted and rededicated to Iraq.

    It hurt the effort. By late 2003-2004 we had lost the momentum and, frankly, the company.

    We could not kill our way to victory in Astan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    Sir,with respect,situation turned haywire around 2005-2006 thanks to our good friends the Pakistanis.While Iraq did no good to any of us,I think it's debatable how much the momentum of 2002 could have been kept until 2006.Keep the momentum to do precisely what?
    Mihais

    You are spot on with the Paks not doing us any favors. But there was a window in 02-04 that we could have tipped the balance. The shortage of forces and resources killed that.
    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
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  4. #1144
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    Sir,the West spent in A-stan a fortune.Ignoring for the moment the huge amount stolen and wasted,both by our great contractors and the Afghan local bosses,what trickled down is still enormous by local standards.The natives could not and would not do anything else but what they did.And they are correct:when you get a bullet in the head,all else is trivial.No amount of PSYOPS could talk louder than cash and bullets and a few fountains more in a few villages would have served the cause only a bit.

    We killed too little , we spent too much and you let the **** dictate the flow of events.And we did stayed too long.

    The only good part is that you managed not to invade Iran.That FUBAR would have been epic.
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    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    The only good part is that you managed not to invade Iran.
    ...yet.
    "Draft beer, not people."

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