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Thread: 2018 American Political Scene

  1. #1021

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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    pepe,



    prior to the brazen Russian involvement in the US election, this was essentially the default position of both parties, particularly the Democratic party. Obama's mocking of Romney comes to mind.

    and at the time this made sense, for precisely the reasons you name.

    but Russia -has- attacked the US so they SHOULD move up enormously on the threat totem pole.
    And how strong was this attack? like a nuclear bomb in Washington (Erdogan coup de état) or like small caress on the cheek? Big states try to influence other states, it's "the game". Some people in the USA, have a very fine and hypocritical skin.

    I'm sure the USA is interfering (attacking our democracies in your own words, wow) in the internal affairs of EVERY european union country by far more than Russia in the states, and we are allies. With your logic and way of thinking, should we retaliate against the USA? should we make the USA pay the price?

    Someone (Russia) stealed a buck from the richest guy in town (USA), as i said before "USA complaining about russian interference in the US elections is like Osama Bin Laden moaning against terrorism because someone throw a firecracker on his feet".

    May be Russia have 5% of the US power and influence in international politics, accept it, sometimes they can fondle your face (never to punch it) and you slap russian face a lot from 1991 to present day. So now think pragmatic and ally Russia to contain China.

    I find this russian drama, this moaning, extremely ridiculous and extremely useless for the USA. USA against Russia are golden words for China. Accept Russia has some power! (by far less than you), Negotiate with them and don't be ridiculously proud (and hypocrites).

  2. #1022
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    pepe,

    And how strong was this attack? like a nuclear bomb in Washington (Erdogan coup de état) or like small caress on the cheek? Big states try to influence other states, it's "the game". Some people in the USA, have a very fine and hypocritical skin.

    I'm sure the USA is interfering (attacking our democracies in your own words, wow) in the internal affairs of EVERY european union country by far more than Russia in the states, and we are allies. With your logic and way of thinking, should we retaliate against the USA? should we make the USA pay the price?
    false equivalence, and Putin propaganda to boot.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  3. #1023
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepe View Post
    I find this russian drama, this moaning, extremely ridiculous and extremely useless for the USA. USA against Russia are golden words for China. Accept Russia has some power! (by far less than you), Negotiate with them and don't be ridiculously proud (and hypocrites).
    I am a Ukrainian national. I do not accept the Muscovite annexation of Crimea or Donbass. You say accept it... but it is like Chamberlain accepting the Sudentland occupation and all that came before that - the Rhineland, Austria etc... it does not stop. You have to stand up and say no - and as we have to do fight. The whole premise of Putin's regime is that he is protecting "Great Russia" from an adversary; the CIA/Jews/Gays etc were behind the Ukrainian revolution - he has to have an enemy so it cannot stop. It is straight from Orwell's 1984. There has to be an enemy.

  4. #1024

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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    pepe,



    false equivalence, and Putin propaganda to boot.

    Sorry i'm not under Putin propaganda, just thinking as a non-US citizen of the world (spanish one).

    Ask latinamericans, africans, europeans, asians, middle east citizens about US interference in their internal affairs... i repeat, you are the master doing this... it's "the big game". Snowden show us many facts about US interference and espionage.

    I'm trying to explain my point of view: i accept "the big game", you (the USA) have to accept it too, you are not a god. And think pragmatic about this, sometimes you won 95%, sometimes you lose 5%, so thin skin you have...

    I think the USA is going mad with this issue, and is building a golden bridge for China in the process, so much energy and time wasted against Russia... and i prefer by far the USA than China (luckily we live far away from the totalitarian giant, as we lived far away from the Soviet Union)

    Meanwhile, China is buying the world (including trade negotiations in Europe now, buying cheap russian gas to boost their economy, etc...), i think in 5 or 10 years (imagine another chinese growing decade) you will see this in a different way, as time wasted in a bad policy.

  5. #1025

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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    I am a Ukrainian national.
    Oops this change things a lot, i wanted to talk with US citizens about US policy, sorry.

  6. #1026
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    Pepe are you are democrat? Democracy or not? If the Spanish PM was doing deals with a tyrant and consistently lied about it would it mean nothing to do? If he consistently criticised your own intelligence and judicial establishment after they had said he had been elected with the help of the tyrant you'd say "so what they got 5% influence"? I would hope you would fight him as we did Yanukovych in 2014. Having a deeply compromised President of the US is far worse than having a compromised Spanish PM sadly so it is far more than "ok you have 5%" which in any case is totally unacceptable anyway. It is an act of war.

    I do congratulate the Spanish prosecutors on the recent arrests during Operation Kus.

  7. #1027
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    I meant "wouldn't"... more BS lies.


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    Changing the word would to wouldn't does change the meaning within a sentence.
    Sadly speaking incorrectly should not become part of the Commander-in-Chief's reportoire...particularly letting a day pass before noting a correction.

    Trump's clenched jaw and furrowed brow definitely reveal stress.
    His body language in the final five minutes within Snapper's post # 1027 may be interpreted several ways by different people.
    (Sometimes it just depends if one is a supporter or not.)
    Real eyes realize real lies.

  9. #1029
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Pepe are you are democrat? Democracy or not? If the Spanish PM was doing deals with a tyrant and consistently lied about it would it mean nothing to do? If he consistently criticised your own intelligence and judicial establishment after they had said he had been elected with the help of the tyrant you'd say "so what they got 5% influence"? I would hope you would fight him as we did Yanukovych in 2014. Having a deeply compromised President of the US is far worse than having a compromised Spanish PM sadly so it is far more than "ok you have 5%" which in any case is totally unacceptable anyway. It is an act of war.

    I do congratulate the Spanish prosecutors on the recent arrests during Operation Kus.


    I do remind you that all the meddling did was expose DNC actual behaviour.Democracy or not?
    The intel agencies,or the pro-Dem faction of them,either come with actual proof or shut up.This is not an operational game anymore(if there ever was one) and no classified source or method is worth more than the POTUS.


    Trump being compromised with women is the most unimaginative idea one could come up with.The man has slept with dozens or hundreds,besides changing wives often.You cannot compromise him with that. Money laundering?Give me the smoking gun.The Panama Paper that has Trump's fingerprint on it.Otherwise is just conjecture and has zero value in court.

    As for NATO,I have a better deal.If they want using broomsticks instead of MG's to save few$,they can always donate 0.1% to us and to Poland.No need for 2%.

    Gentlemen,the new dude from Spain has a point.Asty has one too,with Obama doing some moves in Asia.The problem is the US is turning on itself and the Left's obsession with alleged Russian meddling isn't helping any moves to contain China.The Russians just delayed their supposedly 5th Gen aircraft.The Chinese have two operational models,same as US.

    All the West needs to keep Russia at bay is a program for military assistance similar to what Israel gets in EE.10bln\year would be more than enough.Russia is only dangerous for us.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  10. #1030
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Attachment 46404

    So here is the delighful Muscovite 'illegal' (the latest arrested) in the Oval Office with Lavrov and Trumpkin. It is said by some that she (and her senior) were responsible for blocking Mitt Romney as Secretary of State. She is the redhead in the door.
    That's not Maria Butina in the photo. The red-haired woman in the doorway is an American and a government employee.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  11. #1031
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    http://thehill.com/homenews/397579-t...ng-nato-allies

    POTUS spouting Russian propaganda about NATO...pretty sure previous administrations did not do this.

    Trump made the comment on Fox News's "Tucker Carlson Tonight" when host Tucker Carlson asked why should his "son go to Montenegro to defend it from attack?"

    "I've asked the same question," Trump said. "Montenegro is a tiny country with very strong people. ... They are very strong people. They are very aggressive people, they may get aggressive, and congratulations, you are in World War III."
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  12. #1032
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    It's all rather disgusting.

    If "the American military industrial complex" is seriously as powerful as conspiracy theorists think, then they need to get a move on it and get this guy out (in a purely legal according to the law fashion).

    It's crazy that the people that care about geopolitics are all going to vote for the Democrat in 2 years though (and maybe in November). I'm involved in Republican Party politics at a local level, if he gets a serious primary challenge in 2020 (although they've already taken actions at the RNC Rules level so that Trump won't be forced to debate anyone), I'm gung-ho supporting whoever that is.
    Last edited by rj1; 18 Jul 18, at 13:43.

  13. #1033
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    Hello Mihai, I hope married life is treating you as well as it me (when I can get home).

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    I do remind you that all the meddling did was expose DNC actual behaviour.Democracy or not?
    So me spying on you in your home to reveal your bad habits (which we all have no doubt) would be ok? No it is an attack on your right to privacy. People are entitled to slag off others among their friends. It is normal for some. It is not acceptable for the enemy to break into that confidential circle and use the information for their own picked choice in an election.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    The intel agencies,or the pro-Dem faction of them,either come with actual proof or shut up.This is not an operational game anymore(if there ever was one) and no classified source or method is worth more than the POTUS.
    I am not sure there is a "pro-Dem faction" of the intel agencies. Should the law apply equally to all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    Trump being compromised with women is the most unimaginative idea one could come up with.The man has slept with dozens or hundreds,besides changing wives often.You cannot compromise him with that. Money laundering?Give me the smoking gun.The Panama Paper that has Trump's fingerprint on it.Otherwise is just conjecture and has zero value in court.
    Well I recall one of the excuses for why Cohen may have payed of this 'actress'; because Trumpkin did not want Melania hurt. But you are saying that a guy who had no problem going to bed with an adult film 'actress' shortly after the birth of his youngest son would pass up free prostitutes in Moscow? To save Melania's feeling again? I feel sorry for the Slovenian Lady but let's face it she's only step away from his 'actress' friend.

    As for the money laundering look at the deals! He did business Felix Sater... who's Pater is a Muscovite sub boss. The Maison de L'Amitie (which these crass Yanks couldn't spell right) deal - bought for $41.35m, spent $3m on and sold to Dmitry Rybolovlev for $95m - not that Rybolovlev ever spent a night there; he bulldozed it. The casino's Trumpkin owned were found guilty of money laundering! Manafort is charged with money laundering, quite likely Cohen could be too. "In terms of high-end product influx into the US, Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets," Donald Trump Jr. said at a New York real-estate conference that year. "Say, in Dubai, and certainly with our project in SoHo, and anywhere in New York. We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia" according to the son in 2008. But yet Trumpkin says he never had anything to do with Muscovy - never met them. "Will Putin be my new best friend?" he asked in 2013 via Twitter. Well yes was the answer; Putin got him elected. Why is Europe a "foe" and Muscovy a "friendly competitor"? Why can he not accept that Muscovy interferred in the US election in his favour contrary to all the evidence? Why did they intervene on his behalf? Why no mention of the attacks of the Checkists from the US to Salisbury to Georgia - and their own people? Because they own him.

    Yea it is fine to want to be friends but when someone is punching you and your friends in the face

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    As for NATO,I have a better deal.If they want using broomsticks instead of MG's to save few$,they can always donate 0.1% to us and to Poland.No need for 2%.
    When are you or the Poles going to enter the war? I would love to meet you in Tiraspol. But until you are ready to come and defend Europe the money would be better spent on those who are already defending you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    The problem is the US is turning on itself and the Left's obsession with alleged Russian meddling isn't helping any moves to contain China.
    It is a mistake to label those who stand for the law as "the Left". I am no leftie; just do not like traitors whoever they may be. Treason costs lives and when the former Director of the CIA calls Trumpkins performance "treason" you had better sit up and listen. It is no use labelling it as 'left wing conspiracy theory' anymore. Like you said "This is not an operational game anymore". It is too damn real. How many indictments (charges) have been brought? Around 30? How many guilty pleas? 4 at least I can think of offhand - excluding the delightful Butina. This is a criminal investigation not a 'leftist conspiracy witch hunt'. Again you have ask yourself if the law applies equally to all or not.

    How many indictments (charges) have been brought? Around 30? How many guilty pleas? 4 at least I can think of offhand - excluding the delightful Butina. This is a criminal investigation not a 'leftist conspiracy witch hunt'. Do you wish to protect the guilty? These Muscovite agents and their idiot Yank assets or support the rule of law?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    All the West needs to keep Russia at bay is a program for military assistance similar to what Israel gets in EE.10bln\year would be more than enough.Russia is only dangerous for us.
    Perhaps Romania and Poland should raise their military spending similar to that of Ukraine's 5% of GDP? Or just send us your budget until you want to fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    That's not Maria Butina in the photo. The red-haired woman in the doorway is an American and a government employee.
    Do your own face scan.

    Name:  5klxzis0.jpg
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    Lots of software out there; http://api.animetrics.com https://trueface.ai It's her. See also; https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018...ed-russian-spy I may remind you that it was during meeting that Trumpkin leaked the info about the Israeli source in Daesh/ISIS to the Muscovites.

  14. #1034
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    Hi Sara!What can I say,marriage is nicer than expected and I'm glad yours is fine as well.Simple things work best

    1. Going backwards,we'd like to help you,but some of the latest behaviour towards our fellow countrymen in Bucovina,what used to be our land and was stolen by USSR ,raises some eyebrows lately.Lots of sympathy lost on some trifles and a bit of remembering that is Velikorus vs Malorus.
    2.You are not yet NATO and our war,if it will come,will not be in Donbass.As for Poland,you know better where they stand.Frankly you are in Catch 22.If you attack Donbas,you get invaded.If you don't,you'll stay in the gray zone for at least a generation.You might,like Sakashvili 10 years ago, attack,but that would mean the destruction of both Rus.Only then we'll be obliged to visit Tiraspol,when Russian troops come close to Odessa.
    3. Security arrangements of EU and NATO are a concern for EU and NATO and those borders,for better or worse don't include Ukraine.If the Russians do invade you,which would be a real hurt,our new army,the Poles and Balts will be able to give them a proper beating.So thanks,but we'd prefer spending our $ on our boys(me included ).My point with the 10bln aid package is that there is no real urgency perceived at decision maker levels in Europe and even if it was it requires pocket change to deter or defeat the threat.The Russian army is still mostly on other fronts and all they is consolidate Bde's into Div's.And they still count in Btn's while the old Soviet army counted in Div's.

    4.Frankly,I don't care how many women Trump slept with.I don't care what Melania feels and I don't care if the Russians have any sort of tape of that nature.And I don't really care about his more or less shady deals .You have rock solid proof,go ahead,sue him. You only have actionable intel,not anything that you can go to court with.
    I don't understand the American intel on this one.If they have anything useful,they don't use it(i.e ''Brennan knows more that what he says'').If they don't ,than they should do 3 things and only these 3:1-Raise their hat to the Russians for their professionalism. 2- Shut up. 3-Dig until they have a smoking gun with Trump fingerprints on it and a tape showing him commiting the crime.Anything less won't do.
    Coming in public with this circus is disgusting,stupid,disgraceful and something that political hacks do.

    About the lovely Dems.First,is an American bussiness.Their country,their game.We,as outsiders just look at the game and see what can we use from the entire masquarade.But generally speaking,the Dems and democracy cannot be put together in a sentence after they undermined their own democratic process.Second,Clinton is far from no Russian connection.Third,if they did the crime they should be smart enough not to make it public(having zero OPSEC is about the same as doing a press conference).Fourth,what the Russians did is not abnormal.Everybody does it.US does it abroad,Israel does it to the US,Taiwan,China etc...Fifth,for what they did the entire Dem Party should have gone to the dustbin.Instead they double down with the circus.And it works.Sixth,there was no Soviet NKVD in the voting booths.~Half the nation decided Hillary was a bigger slimeball than Trump.And since then we have seen no positive change on either side.They get more vitriolic by the day.


    That leads to a few conclusions that are useful.A-The US is growing apart.Such a nation cannot stop China in due time.Before any real competitor can be dealt with,the major internal issues need to be dealt with.
    B- Before any major internal reckoning US will be increasingly erratic.
    C-The world becomes one of the playing grounds for the internal US issues.No longer predictible strategy and interests.An issue supported by one side will get the enmity of the other and viceversa.That will lead to more meddling by outsiders ,in support of their friends.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  15. #1035
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    Hi Sara! What can I say, marriage is nicer than expected and I'm glad yours is fine as well. Simple things work best.

    1. Going backwards, we'd like to help you, but some of the latest behavior towards our fellow countrymen in Bucovina, what used to be our land and was stolen by USSR, raises some eyebrows lately. Lots of sympathy lost on some trifles and a bit of remembering that is Velikorus vs. Malorus.

    2.You are not yet NATO and our war, if it will come, will not be in Donbass. As for Poland, you know better where they stand. Frankly you are in Catch 22. If you attack Donbass, you get invaded. If you don't, you'll stay in the gray zone for at least a generation. You might, like Saakashvili 10 years ago, attack, but that would mean the destruction of both. Only then we'll be obliged to visit Tiraspol, when Russian troops come close to Odessa.

    3. Security arrangements of EU and NATO are a concern for EU and NATO and those borders, for better or worse don't include Ukraine. If the Russians do invade you, which would be a real hurt, our new army, the Poles and Balts will be able to give them a proper beating. So thanks, but we'd prefer spending our $ on our boys (me included ). My point with the $10 billion aid package is that there is no real urgency perceived at decision maker levels in Europe and even if it was it requires pocket change to deter or defeat the threat. The Russian Army is still mostly on other fronts and all they do is consolidate brigades into divisions. And they still count in batallions while the old Soviet Army counted in divisions.

    4. Frankly, I don't care how many women Trump slept with. I don't care what Melania feels and I don't care if the Russians have any sort of tape of that nature. And I don't really care about his more or less shady deals. You have rock solid proof, go ahead, sue him. You only have actionable intel, not anything that you can go to court with. I don't understand the American intel on this one. If they have anything useful, they don't use it (i.e ''Brennan knows more that what he says''). If they don't, then they should do 3 things and only these 3:

    a. Raise their hat to the Russians for their professionalism.
    b. Shut up.
    c. Dig until they have a smoking gun with Trump fingerprints on it and a tape showing him committing the crime. Anything less won't do.

    Coming in public with this circus is disgusting, stupid, disgraceful and something that political hacks do.

    About the lovely Democrats:

    First, is an American business. Their country, their game. We, as outsiders just look at the game and see what can we use from the entire masquarade. But generally speaking, the Democrats and democracy cannot be put together in a sentence after they undermined their own democratic process.
    Second, Clinton is far from no Russian connection.
    Third, if they did the crime they should be smart enough not to make it public (having zero operations security is about the same as doing a press conference).
    Fourth, what the Russians did is not abnormal. Everybody does it. U.S. does it abroad, Israel does it to the U.S., Taiwan, China etc...
    Fifth, for what they did the entire Democratic Party should have gone to the dustbin. Instead they double down with the circus. And it works.
    Sixth, there was no Soviet NKVD in the voting booths. Half the nation decided Hillary was a bigger slimeball than Trump. And since then we have seen no positive change on either side. They get more vitriolic by the day.

    That leads to a few conclusions that are useful:

    a. The U.S. is growing apart. Such a nation cannot stop China in due time. Before any real competitor can be dealt with, the major internal issues need to be dealt with.
    b. Before any major internal reckoning U.S. will be increasingly erratic.
    c. The world becomes one of the playing grounds for the internal U.S. issues. No longer predictable strategy and interests. An issue supported by one side will get the enmity of the other and vice versa. That will lead to more meddling by outsiders, in support of their friends.
    First, don't really agree with your point of view on some things but thought this was a good well-thought post. Improved your grammar and stuff in points. To tackle sections of your post.

    2.You are not yet NATO and our war, if it will come, will not be in Donbass. As for Poland, you know better where they stand. Frankly you are in Catch 22. If you attack Donbass, you get invaded. If you don't, you'll stay in the gray zone for at least a generation. You might, like Saakashvili 10 years ago, attack, but that would mean the destruction of both. Only then we'll be obliged to visit Tiraspol, when Russian troops come close to Odessa.
    I think I am where you seem to fall of being a de facto vs. de jure guy. Crimea whether I like it or not is Russia now because not Ukraine, not the EU, not the U.S., not the UN, no one, has taken any action to bring Crimea back into Ukraine. This is in due part to no one having the balls to deploy forces to support the Ukrainians as the Russians proceeded to take Crimea without a shot being fired. In hindsight an excellent political calculation by Putin. Although not formally annexed, they reduced Georgia's territory by a third in 2008 as well with the regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

    What is the point of international norms of law in this kind of world however? The Romanians for example have not recognized Crimea as being Russian, only a handful of states have, yet no one is doing anything to actually enforce international norms. We're at the moment in a pre-World War II world where states can just make war and take land, change borders at will based on the past decade and there will be no effective repercussions. That's a very dangerous world, and the Europeans and the Americans for more than a decade have been standing back watching it all happen.

    Saddam should've just waited for 25 more years, he'd've annexed Kuwait no problem.

    4. Frankly, I don't care how many women Trump slept with. I don't care what Melania feels and I don't care if the Russians have any sort of tape of that nature. And I don't really care about his more or less shady deals. You have rock solid proof, go ahead, sue him. You only have actionable intel, not anything that you can go to court with. I don't understand the American intel on this one. If they have anything useful, they don't use it (i.e ''Brennan knows more that what he says''). If they don't, then they should do 3 things and only these 3:

    a. Raise their hat to the Russians for their professionalism.
    b. Shut up.
    c. Dig until they have a smoking gun with Trump fingerprints on it and a tape showing him committing the crime. Anything less won't do.

    Coming in public with this circus is disgusting, stupid, disgraceful and something that political hacks do.
    a and b are just not possible. They may say a in private but they can't in public.

    About the lovely Democrats:

    First, is an American business. Their country, their game. We, as outsiders just look at the game and see what can we use from the entire masquarade. But generally speaking, the Democrats and democracy cannot be put together in a sentence after they undermined their own democratic process.
    Second, Clinton is far from no Russian connection.
    Third, if they did the crime they should be smart enough not to make it public (having zero operations security is about the same as doing a press conference).
    Fourth, what the Russians did is not abnormal. Everybody does it. U.S. does it abroad, Israel does it to the U.S., Taiwan, China etc...
    Fifth, for what they did the entire Democratic Party should have gone to the dustbin. Instead they double down with the circus. And it works.
    Sixth, there was no Soviet NKVD in the voting booths. Half the nation decided Hillary was a bigger slimeball than Trump. And since then we have seen no positive change on either side. They get more vitriolic by the day.
    1, 2, 4, and 6 agree entirely.

    3, these people are not that intelligent. They're people more in tune with gaging the electorate than any kind of understanding of geopolitical affairs.

    5, it's not possible with how our politics are setup. First, the actual party structures in both the Democrats and Republicans are incredibly weak. The Sanders people at an operational level have been reforming the Democrat party somewhat over the past year and a half (even though Sanders is not nor has he ever been a Democrat - entryism, just as Trump was an entryist into the Republican Party) and have removed some of the previous generation. The Republican Party at the moment is disintegrating internally because the only thing that matters is Trump loyalty versus any kind of policy debate. McConnell and Ryan both disparaged Trump yesterday. Talk to Joe Everyman that traditionally votes Republican, they hate these guys. Whoever their replacements would be they would hate them too.

    That leads to a few conclusions that are useful:

    a. The U.S. is growing apart. Such a nation cannot stop China in due time. Before any real competitor can be dealt with, the major internal issues need to be dealt with.
    b. Before any major internal reckoning U.S. will be increasingly erratic.
    c. The world becomes one of the playing grounds for the internal U.S. issues. No longer predictable strategy and interests. An issue supported by one side will get the enmity of the other and vice versa. That will lead to more meddling by outsiders, in support of their friends.
    a has been true for the part 15 or so years. I think your insight that it's in countries like China's interest that this is the case is a shrewd insight.
    c is probably true as well.
    Last edited by rj1; 18 Jul 18, at 17:37.

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