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Thread: 2018 American Political Scene

  1. #961
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    No Sir the Senate did not "elect Pompey" (Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus being the man and Pompeii being the town) it appointed him as their General to defend the Republik after Caesar broke the law by crossing the Rubicon with his legions while Consul. The Senate never elected Consuls though Senators could vote. The election of Consuls was open to all citizens and not the Senate alone. Some political posts were for the Senate to appoint such pro - Consuls or regional Governors. The Tribunes, the one official post Augustus held after becoming 'Emperor', were also elected by 'plebeians' not the Senate.
    Oh please. Then, more so than now, those with money determined the election. Bribes were flowing left, right, and centre. The Senate determined who was elected.

    As such, Pompei was not eligible since he had legions and a governorship that has yet to be finished. And let's be very clear about this. Caeser was not a criminal until his term of governorship in Gaul was up. Pompei already had his legions in Italy on his dime to vote for him. So to accuse Caesar of a crime is to ignore Pompei's criminal actions.

    Get off that schtick. It has nothing to do with Trump who was legally elected and not through by hook or by crook.

  2. #962
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Oh please. Then, more so than now, those with money determined the election. Bribes were flowing left, right, and centre. The Senate determined who was elected.
    Nobody is saying that elections during the Roman Republic were not open to bribery.

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    As such, Pompei was not eligible since he had legions and a governorship that has yet to be finished. And let's be very clear about this. Caeser was not a criminal until his term of governorship in Gaul was up. Pompei already had his legions in Italy on his dime to vote for him. So to accuse Caesar of a crime is to ignore Pompei's criminal actions.
    Pompey when the Senate went to him asking him to defend the Republic was not Governor of any province. He was a retired General - his only official position being prefect of provisions (make sure the food gets to Rome) and had suffered a recent illness in what is now called Naples. He was not "elected" to any political position but asked to defend the Republic.

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Get off that schtick. It has nothing to do with Trump who was legally elected and not through by hook or by crook.
    What I was trying to point out was the dangers inherent in one partisan political side using the system of justice against another; that Justice - to remain true justice must be impartial and not the tool of some political manoeuvre by any side such as was possible in old Rome and led to the downfall of the Republic there. Not your 'what was Pompey doing when appointed General nonsense'. He sure as hell was not "elected" Consul by the Senate.

    If you wish to continue this historical debate regarding Roman history and the downfall of the Republic I would be happy to do so in the History threads.

  3. #963
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    What I was trying to point out was the dangers inherent in one partisan political side using the system of justice against another; that Justice - to remain true justice must be impartial and not the tool of some political manoeuvre by any side such as was possible in old Rome and led to the downfall of the Republic there.
    unfortunately the US system of impeachment was and is a political process, more than it is a legal one.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  4. #964
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    What I was trying to point out was the dangers inherent in one partisan political side using the system of justice against another; that Justice - to remain true justice must be impartial and not the tool of some political manoeuvre by any side such as was possible in old Rome and led to the downfall of the Republic there. Not your 'what was Pompey doing when appointed General nonsense'. He sure as hell was not "elected" Consul by the Senate.
    Again, get off that schtick. Pompei was no angel and certainly no defender of the Republic. He was not restoring power to the Senate. He and Caeser was in a war for who was to rule Rome. So, get off that crap about justice.

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    If you wish to continue this historical debate regarding Roman history and the downfall of the Republic I would be happy to do so in the History threads.
    You go right ahead but stop bringing Caeser here since the Roman Republic system has no bearing on the US whatsoever.

  5. #965
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    The point about justice was that private citizens were given free reign to bring criminal charges in the Roman Republic - thus Caesar felt forced to cross the Rubicon because he was facing charges as soon as the coming end of his Consulship came (Consuls being immune during their 2yr time of service). Thus in the modern world we put justice above partisan factions for the benefit of all and for Trumpkin to "demand" an investigation into an ongoing investigation regarding him threatens that principle. It is called jurisprudence I think.

    You know Colonel, with the most respect, I am bored of answering your insults and other distortions. God save you.

  6. #966
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    The point about justice was that private citizens were given free reign to bring criminal charges in the Roman Republic - thus Caesar felt forced to cross the Rubicon because he was facing charges as soon as the coming end of his Consulship came (Consuls being immune during their 2yr time of service).
    Again, get off it. There were enough plays going on to see both Caeser and Pompei to give up their legions at the same time. Both refused. Both were given options to avoid criminal charges. Again both refused. Both did not want to lose power. Yeah, try to get a private citizen to bring charges against Pompei when his legionaires were walking the streets in civilian clothes.

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Thus in the modern world we put justice above partisan factions for the benefit of all and for Trumpkin to "demand" an investigation into an ongoing investigation regarding him threatens that principle. It is called jurisprudence I think.
    It's being done. It's called the Mueller Special Council. Tough cookies is not to your likings but it fits within the American Law System of which you have absolutely zero say

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    You know Colonel, with the most respect, I am bored of answering your insults and other distortions. God save you.
    You're the one who is refusing to answer facts and bring up crap that has no bearing on this whatsoever. Stop bringing up Caeser. It has zero to do with Trump no matter how many times you type Trumpkin.

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