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Thread: 2018 American Political Scene

  1. #811
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    At the end of the day, technological progress will happen, whether you like it or not. It does not matter how things were done or are done in the military, industry is in a disrption mode. Anyone who does not wise up gets left behind. Remember Blockbuster? At the same time that Amazon is rising, traditional box stores are closing. Bank branches employ a bare minimum of people and actively try to reduce footfall. How we work and get entertained, how we eat, how we live and travel has radically changed even if you do not acknwoedge it.
    Just because technological progress occurs doesn't mean that people should be forced to go along with it. What you're saying almost sounds like technocratic totalitarianism.

    Myself, I'm a dispatch IT technician. I also have solid competencies in a number of other technological fields. I count myself lucky, as I can master any technology, in virtually any field, if I have the time, inclination, or need. But I choose not to use technology unless there's no other choice, or if time and convenience makes it an urgent priority.

    People need to have the right to opt out. If somebody wants to navigate by looking to the sun and stars, or by memorizing how the city planners designed the grid, or by getting around looking from church steeple to church steeple in Europe - that's their right. No need to force GPS on them. People have the right to not take phone calls, not answer texts, not reply right away to emails. I could go on and on with other examples, but I think I've made my point.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 22 Apr 18, at 21:08.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  2. #812
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    There was a test of driverless cars on 4 way stop signs. The driverless car would get stuck as the right way is to come to a complete stop, and then go. However other drivers merely slowed down and then moved on. The software was tweaked slightly to accomodate for this, and the testing went on its way. A lot of driverless tech is ML and continuos calibration.
    Again, you're going to have to mix in with human drivers. What happens to the human drivers who runs the stop sign?

  3. #813
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Yeah, given that tariff wars set off the whole Great Depression, I remain unconvinced that this would not cascade to something greater.
    Something called checks and balances. The POTUS is not the dictator of the US.

    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Less automation, more manual labor. Once the cost of automation goes down, the manual labor will go away. A huge part of the communist movement in the '90s was to prevent any computerization in anything whatsoever, because of expected job losses.
    Again, you touted India as the example. Show me. All I found were unsafe conditions, including using bamboo as scaffolding.

    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Leaders are supposed to be visionaries. A big wave is coming and I would expect the Great Leader to see that and take steps to make the country ready for that. All industry experts are talking about it. Trump is talking instead about coal. If your vision is that everyone becomes a plumber or an electrician to survive, well, not going to happen.
    Again, personal responsibility. No one is stopping anyone from taking courses to do this. And this is the US. People elect their leaders.

    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    At the end of the day, technological progress will happen, whether you like it or not. It does not matter how things were done or are done in the military, industry is in a disrption mode. Anyone who does not wise up gets left behind. Remember Blockbuster? At the same time that Amazon is rising, traditional box stores are closing. Bank branches employ a bare minimum of people and actively try to reduce footfall. How we work and get entertained, how we eat, how we live and travel has radically changed even if you do not acknwoedge it.
    I still need to eat. I still need a roof. I still need to go see my doctors. I don't need live streaming. And the mail gets here when it gets here.

    Farming and harvesting is not going to change. Livestock needs is not going to change.

    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    But that is not a fair comparison. They are covering far more ground and engaging more targets than just a 2 person sniper team can. You have changed the scope on me.
    Same comparison. There's only one target. There's only one place where you get multiple targets is called a battlefield and then, you get your drones out of there because of the AAAs.

    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Are you yourself still convinced that bayonets are essential tools in the modern battlefield?
    A bayonet is a knife and knife fights are still an integral part of CQB.
    Last edited by WABs_OOE; 22 Apr 18, at 21:12.

  4. #814
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Are you yourself still convinced that bayonets are essential tools in the modern battlefield?
    If the gun jams, you run out of ammo, the enemy takes you by surprise up close with a knife of his own, or you're a rat down in the tunnel and a gunshot means unconsciousness/concussion, or using a gun means drawing unnecessary attention to yourself, you're REALLY going to regret not having that knife.

    You can't Amazon or Google your way out of these types of situations.

    Colonel is 100% correct. Listen to the military man, he knows what he's talking about.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 22 Apr 18, at 21:16.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  5. #815
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    How about government? No one in any government is prepared to certified driverless cars on any level anytime soon. Even in current testing, the requirement is that the driver must remain in control of the car at all times.

    You know? It really helps if you educate yourself about these things before spouting out garbage.

    California launches system allowing driverless cars to ditch their backup drivers
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.be7d6735d4a0

    Waymo makes history testing on public roads with no one at the wheel
    Waymo's first product will be a driverless taxi service in the Phoenix area.

    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/11...cars-are-here/
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  6. #816
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    The permits are out but no car has yet to be approved for such a permit. I'm not familiar what criteria the automakers have to reach for those criteria.

    And your second link indicates that there would be an employee in the car with an emergency stop button, at least for several months.

    But I stand so corrected
    Last edited by WABs_OOE; 22 Apr 18, at 21:47.

  7. #817
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    God almighty!

    Google initially considered this same gradualist approach, which could have led to licensing partially self-driving technology to automakers. But early tests convinced the company that it was a bad idea. Google employees who got to test early prototypes started trusting the technology way too quickly. Google captured videos of test drivers looking at their smartphones, putting on makeup, and even napping in the driver's seat while cars zoomed down the freeway.

  8. #818
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Team View Post
    We can bribe our way out of extinction, with the promise of paying off their rent and student loans.
    Yea but I suspect their society will be ruled by intelligent AIs with personalities modeled after the parents of millinials.

    They might pay off our student loans, but we may all be forced to attend therapy, discuss our feelings, engage in life explorations like Yoga camp, get liberal arts degrees and work at the galactic Starbucks while realizing ourselves as individuals.

  9. #819
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    I'm sure a race that advanced could simply bio-engineer viruses to remove whatever lifeforms they find inconvenient, then colonize the planet with lifeforms suitable for them. If conquest and settlement is the goal. If immediate destruction of a competitor is the goal with no concerns regarding colonization, or their biology is exotic and the Earth is wholly unsuited toward them, e.g. they're not carbon-based, or water-drinking, or oxygen-breathing, in that case an asteroid or three will do the trick. If they want to keep the Earth as a zoo purely as a site of interest, they could again simply bio-engineer a virus to remove the species that is a potential threat, i.e. us.
    Unless worm holes are real, the chances are any biological members of the new arrivals will be in deep sleep. The cheapest solution will be to lob some dino killers at us. We can't stop them, its 100% effective and the overall biology and life bearing of the planet will recover in a short time compared to the time involved to actually get here.

  10. #820
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Unless worm holes are real, the chances are any biological members of the new arrivals will be in deep sleep. The cheapest solution will be to lob some dino killers at us. We can't stop them, its 100% effective and the overall biology and life bearing of the planet will recover in a short time compared to the time involved to actually get here.
    I could see that as a possibility. Lob impactors at the planet, cause just enough extinction, then arrive a few decades/centuries with a clean slate. Good points.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  11. #821
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    If the gun jams, you run out of ammo, the enemy takes you by surprise up close with a knife of his own, or you're a rat down in the tunnel and a gunshot means unconsciousness/concussion, or using a gun means drawing unnecessary attention to yourself, you're REALLY going to regret not having that knife.

    You can't Amazon or Google your way out of these types of situations.

    Colonel is 100% correct. Listen to the military man, he knows what he's talking about.
    It's also worth noting - that knife has hundreds of other uses besides its primary use as a weapon. If you're in a combat situation anyways - why wouldn't you carry such a useful multi-function tool with you?

    And I have one last thing to say about this - even in the future age of space lasers, pea shooter anti-matter weapons, and relativistic kill vehicles - yup, you're still gonna need that knife.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 22 Apr 18, at 23:32.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  12. #822
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    It's also worth noting - that knife has hundreds of other uses besides its primary use as a weapon. If you're in a combat situation anyways - why wouldn't you carry such a useful multi-function tool with you?

    And I have one last thing to say about this - even in the future age of space lasers, pea shooter anti-matter weapons, and relativistic kill vehicles - yup, you're still gonna need that knife.
    No one is questioning that. All I am saying that technology evolves. A knife is a great tool to have, but it is not the main instrument of war anymore.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  13. #823
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    No one is questioning that. All I am saying that technology evolves. A knife is a great tool to have, but it is not the main instrument of war anymore.
    It is still, and always will be, an absolute, vital necessity.

    Quick question - do you have any military, paramilitary, or security-type background?

    You don't have to answer, but if not - I would trust the judgment of those who do. They know what they're talking about.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  14. #824
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    No one is questioning that. All I am saying that technology evolves. A knife is a great tool to have, but it is not the main instrument of war anymore.
    Let me answer that.

    "You should never run out of ammo."

  15. #825
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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    Unless worm holes are real, the chances are any biological members of the new arrivals will be in deep sleep. The cheapest solution will be to lob some dino killers at us. We can't stop them, its 100% effective and the overall biology and life bearing of the planet will recover in a short time compared to the time involved to actually get here.
    Here's another thing to think about. Our planet is a nice place for us to live because of our biosphere.

    Let's assume that the galaxy is full of planets with environments that can support carbon based life. How many could have evolved along parallel evolutionary paths that make the place entirely inhospitable to us? Here are a couple of scenarios:

    The just like us except with plastics scenario: a planet full of complex carbon based life based on biomolecular building blocks entirely incompatible with our own. Eg, some form of XNA instead of DNA, some form of bioplastic instead of proteins made from amino acids, something that hates an oxygen rich atmosphere. We can go to many planets, and find vibrant biospheres full of life, only life that is so different from our own biochemistry we will have no way of eating the plants, no way of coexisting symbiotically with the micro-organisms or eating any of the food or breathing the air.

    The single cellular goo scenario: instead of evolving into multicellular organisms, the planet's biosphere developed into single cellular amoebas that are so biochemically adept and potent, they prevent any more complicated life from forming. The biosphere is a horror pit of hyper sophisticated biochemical warfare. Anything that enters gets chomped down into little components that become amoeba food.

    The hyperintelligent philosopher dolphin scenario: Instead of evolving a technological society, a water world with abundant sea life creates a race of hyper intelligent dolphins who have no real technology but extraordinarily complex and nuanced philosophy. Any visitors to the planet soon gets drawn into endless debates about life, ethics, spirituality, female dolphin studies, and are driven to flee in horror.

    Ok, I'm kidding about the last part, but points 1 or 2 might be quite plausible. Any intelligent aliens would need to spend millions of years making such planets hospitable and comfortable, making them ask: why bother?

    I wouldn't be surprised if the first reaction from alien visitors upon finding a technological civilization on earth would be WTF??? Followed by pure amateur hour on both sides......

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