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Thread: 2018 American Political Scene

  1. #796
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Hence, low confidence of actually putting driverless cars on the roads anytime soon.
    Your low confidence? If we are required to be insured - as seems likely - litigation will continue on the same basis as it does today. If a vehicle is faulty then the producer will be sued - as they are today. Considering the number of lives lost annually in road incidents and safer automated system will be a large step forward.

  2. #797
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Your low confidence?
    How about government? No one in any government is prepared to certified driverless cars on any level anytime soon. Even in current testing, the requirement is that the driver must remain in control of the car at all times.

    You know? It really helps if you educate yourself about these things before spouting out garbage.
    Last edited by WABs_OOE; 22 Apr 18, at 17:27.

  3. #798
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    In 2016 37,461 people in the US died in road accidents. But they will not allow driverless cars because three people died in testing? Get real... We already have driverless trains that work no problem.

  4. #799
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    In 2016 37,461 people in the US died in road accidents. But they will not allow driverless cars because three people died in testing? Get real... We already have driverless trains that work no problem.
    Don't worry about it. It's not your government and not your problem. They're not going to certified driverless cars and you have no say in the matter.

    And what part of testing don't you get? The freaking cars FAILED the test! Jeeze, stupidity abound.
    Last edited by WABs_OOE; 22 Apr 18, at 18:18.

  5. #800
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    snapper,

    Driverless car technology is still too immature and bleeding edge at the moment. With all the things the folks who are pushing driverless cars want to do (and they want it now, now, now!), if they could do it all by 2019, some hacker could take control over a million cars and turn them into a WMD.

    There are algorithms in a driverless car OS that recognizes people via the sensors, which then instructs the driverless car to brake and avoid pedestrians. A hacker could simply re-write the code to do the reverse - run them over instead of braking and avoiding. And they could potentially do this to thousands or even millions of driverless cars, and carry out a mass terrorist attack.

    We'll get there, eventually. 37,461 dead may be tragic, but it's a necessary sacrifice for the time being. It sure beats other worst-case scenario alternatives, that are in fact a very real, dangerous possibility.

    As far as this and other technologies are concerned, there is no problem in taking our time and getting it right the first time. Measure twice, cut once, as they say in the construction trade.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 22 Apr 18, at 19:21.
    What I don't want to see is the Bills winning a Super Bowl. As long as I'm alive that doesn't happen.

  6. #801
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    Let's put that 37,461 deaths in perspective. There are approximately less than 80 driverless cars in the US at the moment. 3 deaths is 4% fatality. There are 263.6 million registered cars in the US. That's .014% fatality. So driverless cars are 286 times more deadly than cars with drivers. I, too, can play with numbers.

  7. #802
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Let's put that 37,461 deaths in perspective. There are approximately less than 80 driverless cars in the US at the moment. 3 deaths is 4% fatality. There are 263.6 million registered cars in the US. That's .014% fatality. So driverless cars are 286 times more deadly than cars with drivers. I, too, can play with numbers.
    Yeah. Driverless cars have tons of problems.

    A key reason is that today's neural networks do.pattern recognition well but can't reason like human beings. They are all instinct with some hard coded logic.

    For example, they can't say to themselves, I'm heading west at sunset and the sun is blinding my sensors, just follow the car in front of me slowly. They are more like perfectly obedient and consistent mice trained to read signs and follow the rules of the road.

    To compensate for poor reasoning, they rely on better sensing. That's why they need stuff like lidar.

    However, humans can benefit from the sensing and automated instincts too in the form of automated safety systems.

    I suspect that humans drivers with the assistance of automated safety systems and sensors will beat fully automated cars on safety for a long time to come.
    Last edited by citanon; 22 Apr 18, at 20:11.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skywatcher View Post
    Going back to Eric Greiten, the Governor of Missouri, you'd think that the background checks and psych evaluations for the SEAL selection process should have weeded him out due to character and judgment issues.
    SEALs select for people who can execute the missions, not sure if Greiten's private problems would register.

    Btw, I read one of the committee reports. That guy sounds like a scum bag in private.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zraver View Post
    If Aliens show up we are doomed. Intelligence requires comptetition. Prey animals don't master the stars. On top of that, what ever colonists are in deep sleep probably have merciless robots awake to do all the prep work. No talking, no bargaining, just some asteroids from impact then let the dust settle.
    What if they are like our millennials?

  10. #805
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    Quote Originally Posted by citanon View Post
    Yeah. Driverless cars have tons of problems.
    Until you get all driverless cars on the road and ban human drivers altogether, you're going to have major problems trying to mix the two systems. I really doubt driverless trucks can share the road with agressive car drivers, especially those who thinks the laws of the road are only guidelines.

  11. #806
    Senior Contributor Red Team's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citanon View Post
    What if they are like our millennials?
    We can bribe our way out of extinction, with the promise of paying off their rent and student loans.
    "Draft beer, not people."

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    Only if I still had my scotch collection.

  13. #808
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    You are being chicken little. Yes, Trump made things tough but it isn't anything the farmers have not weathered before.
    Yeah, given that tariff wars set off the whole Great Depression, I remain unconvinced that this would not cascade to something greater.

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    You point to India as the example. I cannot find any.
    Less automation, more manual labor. Once the cost of automation goes down, the manual labor will go away. A huge part of the communist movement in the '90s was to prevent any computerization in anything whatsoever, because of expected job losses.

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    The training was always there. You're asking tax payer dollars to pay for it instead out of the person's own pockets.
    Leaders are supposed to be visionaries. A big wave is coming and I would expect the Great Leader to see that and take steps to make the country ready for that. All industry experts are talking about it. Trump is talking instead about coal. If your vision is that everyone becomes a plumber or an electrician to survive, well, not going to happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    At the end of the day, you need to keep that conveyor belt going. I don't care how many servers or data entry points or data recovery systems you have. That conveyor belt stops, your production stops. In the case of Amazon, if the planes don't fly (as on 11 Sept), they don't deliver.
    At the end of the day, technological progress will happen, whether you like it or not. It does not matter how things were done or are done in the military, industry is in a disrption mode. Anyone who does not wise up gets left behind. Remember Blockbuster? At the same time that Amazon is rising, traditional box stores are closing. Bank branches employ a bare minimum of people and actively try to reduce footfall. How we work and get entertained, how we eat, how we live and travel has radically changed even if you do not acknwoedge it.

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Far from it. We still need spooks to tell the drones where to look. And we need more people (pilots, sigs management, backup power grid, mechanics, fuel management, MPs to guard the ops room) to operate those drones than a 2 man sniper team lying in wait for their targets.
    But that is not a fair comparison. They are covering far more ground and engaging more targets than just a 2 person sniper team can. You have changed the scope on me.

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Yep. You just googled bayonet and then pick out the web site. Yet, we still issue the bayonet and you did not asked why.
    Are you yourself still convinced that bayonets are essential tools in the modern battlefield?
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  14. #809
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    Quote Originally Posted by citanon View Post

    A key reason is that today's neural networks do.pattern recognition well but can't reason like human beings. They are all instinct with some hard coded logic.
    At that stage of advancement, AI with the ability to do human reasoning wouldn't be too far off self-awareness. THAT is a whole other can of worms.

    EDIT: I just realized, what if we implemented exclusive driverless car lanes on the highways? Having a lane of traffic entirely separate from human controlled cars could mitigate the issue of human variability to a degree.
    Last edited by Red Team; 22 Apr 18, at 21:00.
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  15. #810
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Until you get all driverless cars on the road and ban human drivers altogether, you're going to have major problems trying to mix the two systems. I really doubt driverless trucks can share the road with agressive car drivers, especially those who thinks the laws of the road are only guidelines.
    There was a test of driverless cars on 4 way stop signs. The driverless car would get stuck as the right way is to come to a complete stop, and then go. However other drivers merely slowed down and then moved on. The software was tweaked slightly to accomodate for this, and the testing went on its way. A lot of driverless tech is ML and continuos calibration.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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