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Thread: 2018 American Political Scene

  1. #751
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Doesn't change the fact that it's a tax grab despite the fact that emissions have gone down.
    I do not know about tax grabs ( I thought it was regulation) but it was worth it if the emissions went down

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Doesn't change the fact that soy bean crops are sold this year.
    And yet the future prices are down
    https://www.npr.org/2018/03/31/59939...oybean-farmers

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Get what people out what high paying jobs? Those with high paying jobs are our generation. And we worked our asses off to get where we are.
    The CAD Designers who are suddenly out of a job because an optimization bot took over. Or the Sr. SDET who longer need to do any testing because DevOps software and tools have taken over. Now they need to get their big boy "work ethic" boots on and work as plumbers apparently.

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    And they're both losing their jobs but no one has yet to write code that can repair a crack toilet pipe.
    Self repairing pipe technology already exists and has been tested out in repairing undersea pipelines. This was way back in 2006. Self healing PVC also exists. It is a matter of time before these are implemented

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    No robot is going in to retool a factory and I have yet to see robots to survey a site and know where to lay pipes and roads.
    Welcome to the present. Drone are being used for surveying now. Data analysis work will increase instead of survey work. Ultimately that will also be automated

    http://droneanalyst.com/2016/07/27/t...-and-surveying

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Yes. I also remember Toyota, Nissan, and Honda ending up with whole cargo stoarge of dead robots because they're no longer meeting specs. It's not the first time I saw technological revolution come to a screeching halt and this will probably be the last time for me because of my age.
    So what? Manpower required to manufacture has reduced or has it not. Who cares what technology gets thrown at the wayside? That is the nature of the job. Floppy drives made way for CD/ DVD which has made way for solid state drives. New tech will come up and then get discarded.

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    No responsive decision engine is going to change the laws of physics. The decision to avoid a crash needs to be made at least 30-40 minutes before the crash itself. Too many factors to come in and not all of it under your remote control.
    Again, driverless cars.

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Same scenario. If the companies decide to junk the hardware and software, it will be junk and they will replace it with their own new hardware. The fact that it's internal IT guys doing this does not mean the production guys didn't just got a whole bunch of headaches and heartaches.
    Again, so what? Also, in modern DevOps, the headaches and the heartaches of production and operations has reduced greatly. Expect feature releases at a far greater speed than before

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Scrub the air filters. It's old proven technology and a lot cheaper to install than wind or solar.
    And swords and spears were proven technology till gunpowder came along.

    Sir, you are an Engineer. Why are you, of all people, apprehensive of technology changes???
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  2. #752
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Scrub the air filters. It's old proven technology and a lot cheaper to install than wind or solar.
    This is what India & China will be doing as there is no way to generate enough power otherwise. The AIIB will help with funding since WB will not touch coal

    If the west wants to help with more efficient tech then by all means but that's been slow in coming to date.

  3. #753
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    In Ukraine the younger generation fights in -30C.
    In soviet Russia, -30C fights with you

  4. #754
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    There are no more Soviets thank God.

  5. #755
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    I do not know about tax grabs ( I thought it was regulation) but it was worth it if the emissions went down
    The regulations were in place before the Paris Accords. The Paris Accords are used to raise new taxes because of "treaty obligations." Never mind that the "treaty obligations" are written by Ottawa herself with no requirements from any other countries. Not one new regulation was put in place to reduce further CO2 but new taxes came in.

    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    That's next year's crop that has yet to be planted. If it's not worth it, the farmers won't plant. It's as simple as that.

    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    The CAD Designers who are suddenly out of a job because an optimization bot took over. Or the Sr. SDET who longer need to do any testing because DevOps software and tools have taken over.
    So, start marketing yourself to places who can't afford upfront investment for the hardware and software.

    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Now they need to get their big boy "work ethic" boots on and work as plumbers apparently.
    Yes, get your work ethic into place. There is absolutely zero point in arguing the unfairness in all of this. If it puts food on the table and a roof over your head, do it. You've got Indian doctors driving cabs in NY. They're not marching up and down demanding the US lowers its standards in providing Medical Licenses.

    Sergeants and Captains leave the military because of the lack of career choices. The GS left the USMC and is making damned good money in the Construction Trade. So, yes, work ethic first and foremost.

    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Self repairing pipe technology already exists and has been tested out in repairing undersea pipelines. This was way back in 2006. Self healing PVC also exists. It is a matter of time before these are implemented.
    They're patches, designed to buy you time so you can do a proper repair. I certainly won't rely on a patched ABS pipe lasting the life of a building. I, too, will patch that toilet pipe until I can get a contractor to dig up and replaced the damaged pipe.

    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Welcome to the present. Drone are being used for surveying now. Data analysis work will increase instead of survey work. Ultimately that will also be automated
    You're serious. Drones are not going to tell you the water table, soil composition, nor what kind of bottom you got be it clay or bedrock.

    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    So what? Manpower required to manufacture has reduced or has it not. Who cares what technology gets thrown at the wayside? That is the nature of the job. Floppy drives made way for CD/ DVD which has made way for solid state drives. New tech will come up and then get discarded.
    You know what replaced those first batch of robots? People. It was faster and easier to put an assembly line back up and give the training and tools to the people to meet the new specs.

    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Again, driverless cars.
    3 deaths so far in testing. Confidence is not high.

    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Again, so what? Also, in modern DevOps, the headaches and the heartaches of production and operations has reduced greatly. Expect feature releases at a far greater speed than before
    Tell that to your shareholders when you don't meet your quarterly production.

    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    And swords and spears were proven technology till gunpowder came along.
    We still have the bayonet.

    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Sir, you are an Engineer. Why are you, of all people, apprehensive of technology changes???
    Because I've seen this before and everytime it's been a headache and heartache, especially with the military. There is a mine detection system sitting in a CF warehouse that cost well over a million dollars and a $10,000 dog does a better job. FCS was supposed to allow us reduce manpower and firepower needs but all it did was to let the enemy leak through our lines like an open damn.

    Cameras do not replace eyes and AIs do not replace a man.
    Last edited by WABs_OOE; 20 Apr 18, at 19:24.

  6. #756
    Field mechanik Senior Contributor omon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post

    Sir, you are an Engineer. Why are you, of all people, apprehensive of technology changes???
    maybe that is exactly why, he knows limitations of tech, from real world experience.

    self healing pipes concept may exist, but i can see 100+ years pass until they are installed under your sink. if at all, it may very well be extremity cost prohibitive. so plumbers are not going anywhere, neither penny a foot pvc pipes, and robots are not replacing them. that is just reality

    drones are same tools as theodolites and levelers, they are just extra tool not man replacement. your article is talking about maps, construction sites are very different, unlike landscape they change on daily basis. that is where majority of surveys are working. i'm in construction for over 20 years, drones have very limited roles. not useless but not replacing anyone soon.

    led lighting is relatively new thing yet leds were invented over 100 years ago
    Last edited by omon; 20 Apr 18, at 19:02.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin

  7. #757
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    3 deaths so far in testing. Confidence is not high.
    How many die daily in human driven vehicles? Yet you have confidence in yourself and others when driving... Three is nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    How many die daily in human driven vehicles? Yet you have confidence in yourself and others when driving... Three is nothing.
    Human libability is limited to one's car insurance. The AI's liability is limited to what the company is worth in putting out a flawed and dangerous product.

  9. #759
    Field mechanik Senior Contributor omon's Avatar
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    probably a lot less by number but astronomical higher by ratio, for now
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin

  10. #760
    Senior Contributor Red Team's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    How about showing some common decency and respect?

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/garysto.../#386943026416

    And this was not an isolated incident.
    As a volunteer worker at my university's veteran's home, I find the passenger's lack of decorum ignorant at best, despicable at worst. I did not see any indications that the passengers in question were exclusively of my generation. I am also reminded of how terribly previous generations (boomers?) treated Vietnam vets. Compared to those times, I think today's culture is much more respectful to veterans, if not bordering on excess.

    Before I continue I feel I should clarify that I belong to the latter end of Gen Y (Millenials) not Gen Z (as per Pew Research Center). I'm not really in a position to comment anecdotes on Gen Z if that's the generation you thought I was in.

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Maybe the military influence drilled this early into me but life sucks. Every LT's first dress down is inevitably "Tough shit, deal with it."

    I'm at an age where I'm going to a lot more funerals than I do weddings. No matter how much I do things different nor how much I want things different, a hell of a lot more funerals will be in my future. There is nothing to do but deal with it.

    The generation before you? They've got their lives turned upside down by 11 September. Not only the family of those who went to war but those who stayed at home as well. The economic disruption from that one event cannot be dismissed. People lost their jobs. You're in NY, I bet you can still see the scars but that generation? Not only did they dealt with it, they demanded my generation to lead them into hell itself to get those fucks. Not only in the US but elsewhere in the entire West. No one complained about the unfaireness of life. They dealt with it with the most precise brutality the world has ever seen.
    I was in second grade when the towers fell. I may have been young but the memory of the teacher rolling in that TV into the classroom and wondering if my relatives in the area were okay is forever embedded in my mind. In middle school, two of my childhood friends watched their fathers, 9/11 first responders, deteriorate from emphysema/lung related illnesses. In high school during the height of the 2008 financial crisis, I watched friends sign up in droves to the military so they could afford college because they thought that was their only way to succeed a world where their older siblings out of college were getting annihilated by the job market. Two of them never made it back to cash in their checks.

    I count myself incredibly lucky to have experienced success in college and academia, and to have found direction in spite of the societal chaos I grew up in. Yet I am outraged at the gall of some older people trivializing our struggles and dismissing it as a universal shortage of character, rather than a function of our combined upbringing and societal change.

    Colonel, we know life is tough, and we know the best way to deal with it is to put our heads down and work. This is what we want to do. But there's an emotional toll to be had when all you hear about your generation is that you're lazy, soft, and entitled.
    "Draft beer, not people."

  11. #761
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    Welcome back omon, still doing sub 1 moa?

  12. #762
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Team View Post
    Colonel, we know life is tough, and we know the best way to deal with it is to put our heads down and work. This is what we want to do. But there's an emotional toll to be had when all you hear about your generation is that you're lazy, soft, and entitled.
    Tough shit. Deal with it. :-)

  13. #763
    Field mechanik Senior Contributor omon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    Welcome back omon, still doing sub 1 moa?
    Thanks OOE glad to be back, prbly not, have not shot long range in years, prbly lost the edge.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin

  14. #764
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    GVChamp,



    true, but on the other hand it's also a matter of expectations. a blue-collar lifestyle back in the 70s could get you all the symbols of middle-class respectability, a decent living standard, plus an expectation that your kids would probably be in a better position than you. i mean, we talk about that house with the white picket fence and a patio swing, car, two kids, one Disneyland vacation a year as that type of middle-class American Dream, right?

    considerably harder to pull off now.

    let's consider that household earning $60-70K/yr. as you say, "not bad at all". but how close is that to the edge? one bad medical issue that insurance can't/won't cover and it's almost guaranteed that whatever savings that household has is going to be wiped out. if they had little savings to begin with (which is likely given that level of income) then the next step is likely getting rid of that hard-earned house, probably at a loss.

    or on an issue less catastrophic, good luck having even ONE kid go to a STATE school without scholarship. forget the first tier schools (ie UC Berkeley, $13.5K/yr excluding living expenses), even fourth-tier schools like, say, CSU Long Beach will cost $7k/yr.

    the rage here isn't so much lower-class-- it's the middle-class or the just formerly-middle-class whom are angry that even though they generally "did things right", they're barely treading water and are probably relatively worse off than their parents.
    I don't think college has ever been anything other than an aspiration goal for the middle class until rather recently. Our generation has much higher 4-year degree rates than middle aged Americans. The 4-year degree rate for Americans for over 65 is 27%.

    https://www.census.gov/content/dam/C...mo/p20-578.pdf

    If you look at Figure 7, you can see for men that college attendance actually dipped in the 80s, right when those Old Economy Steves were supposedly dealing with the greatest and easiest economy of all time. Millennial men have a far higher educational attainment than Old Economy Steve generation.

    Either way, a college education is not promised to middle class Americans, it's for upper class and upper middle class Americans, and both can (and will) still be able to afford tuition. Just don't go to a private liberal arts college and don't go out of state.

    For the lower middle class it might be out of reach, but it was always pretty much out of reach. They can still pick up 2-year degrees and get jobs for which they are qualified, and then possibly get a full 4-year degree if the job market smiles upon them.


    You have a point on medical expenses, but our medicine is a lot better now than it was 20 or 30 years ago.

    I agree that there's a problem of expectations, but that's because people expect WAYYYYYY too much. Neither my Mother nor my Mother-In-Law got great big diamond engagement rings, neither had honeymoons, neither had new cars, neither even had decent used cars, neither had big weddings, and neither had nice 3-bedroom homes. All of that stuff is pretty much taken for granted by the men and women of my generation. Yeah, if you're expecting that much, you're in for a world of hurt.

    If you save your pennies, you can have everything your parents had and more money. But no one wants to hear about GVChamp's beans and rice for 50 cents, or the joys of shopping at Goodwill to buy all the shit rich people don't want anymore. $20 korean tacos and $200 hugo boss shirts? There we go!

    Don't even get me started on the travel and college entitlements they have. Everyone should go to an out-of-state school and party it up for 4 years and take lots of international vacations. Annoying as hell.


    Personally I think the vast majority of Americans are better off. There's a few areas and a few groups that are worse off.

    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    It also could mean that you're good at your job and don't want anymore.

    It used to be no shame to retire as a Corporal (lower than Sergeant) but in this day and age, it's impossible to retire on a Corporal pension. Corporals are section leaders, 12 men. That means that they're very good at leading and keeping 12 men alive. No shame at staying there. However, I do understand your point.

    For whatever reason, that's the corporate culture at where you are. The smart ones adapt. The dumb ones don't. You're perfectly correct to jump ship to further your career. However, you're also not as indespensible as you think as the company would survive without you.

    That's the point. Fine college is not for them but that does not mean they cannot put food on the table or get a roof over their heads or drive that $80K SUV.
    I don't really disagree with you at all. I am a kid of the upper middle class but I don't buy into half of their bullshit. If you want to sit a desk and do the same shit day in-day out for the next 40 years, I'm all for it. Your choices aren't my business.
    It's just not really the most common occurrence. The people who are really good tend to be pretty ambitious and want to bump up a couple levels before plateauing. Like, I'm pretty comfortable, I could ride out the next 40 years....but why do I that when I can get a higher salary and THEN ride it out the next 40 years?! Now that's what I am talking about.

    I'm definitely no dispensable. All of us got a price. Even the President has a back-up. Never go to thinking you are irreplaceable.


    But there's an emotional toll to be had when all you hear about your generation is that you're lazy, soft, and entitled.
    Rubbing alcohol is for outside wounds, and drinking alcohol is for inside wounds.
    Last edited by GVChamp; 20 Apr 18, at 20:00.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  15. #765
    Field mechanik Senior Contributor omon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    I
    For the lower middle class it might be out of reach, but it was always pretty much out of reach. They can still pick up 2-year degrees and get jobs for which they are qualified, and then possibly get a full 4-year degree if the job market smiles upon them.


    .
    community colleges are pretty cheap, in my state, 12 credit semester in community college is 3-4k which is not much. 2 years community college cost same per semester. even by lower middle class standards it is not out of reach.
    Last edited by omon; 20 Apr 18, at 20:14.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin

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