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2018 American Political Scene

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  • Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
    I honestly think there is more to the collusion story, but that Manafort is the central figure in it, not Trump directly.
    If there was anything it would have leaked by now. Between Schiff, Comey and McCabe if there was anything it would have made it to the media by now. Even the Trump hating Strozk almost didn't join the Mueller team becuase as he said, "there is no there, there". The next Russian shoe to drop is likely going to be the IG's report.

    What Trump expects is fealty along the lines of that sworn to George III. While executive officers do serve at the pleasure of the President, they have a higher loyalty. Our oaths are the way they are as an explicit rejection of fealty-type oaths.
    Robert Gates openly talks about the oath of loyalty he gave Obama. President's need loyal people who are not going to be pursuing their own agendas or running to the media. You can be loyal to the President and the Constitution so long as the oath to the Constitution is the higher oath. Enlisted members of the military do exactly that.

    I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed.

    Is there anything about Trump ya'll wont get butt hurt over?

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    • Is there anything about Trump ya'll wont get butt hurt over?
      a President asking for loyalty from multiple Justice officials in the context of a Justice investigation about his administration....rings no alarm bells with you?
      There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

      Comment


      • Originally posted by citanon View Post
        As much as I like Trump's economics policies, ...
        Would that b his anti-poor protectionism and the budget-busting give-away to the rich?
        Trust me?
        I'm an economist!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by zraver View Post
          Robert Gates openly talks about the oath of loyalty he gave Obama. President's need loyal people who are not going to be pursuing their own agendas or running to the media. You can be loyal to the President and the Constitution so long as the oath to the Constitution is the higher oath. Enlisted members of the military do exactly that.

          I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed.

          Is there anything about Trump ya'll wont get butt hurt over?
          Thats not a loyalty oath to an individual. Notice how "True faith and allegiance" Comes before Obey the orders...

          And the military doesn't have loyalty to the President, We pledge only to obey the LAWFUL orders that he may give.

          This is what a loyalty oath to the leader of a country looks like
          “I swear by God this holy oath, that I will render to Adolf Hitler, Führer of the German Reich and People, Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces, unconditional obedience, and that I am ready, as a brave soldier, to risk my life at any time for this oath.”
          Not invoking Godwins law here. Its just the best example of an oath to someone in power

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          • Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
            Thats not a loyalty oath to an individual. Notice how "True faith and allegiance" Comes before Obey the orders...

            And the military doesn't have loyalty to the President, We pledge only to obey the LAWFUL orders that he may give.

            This is what a loyalty oath to the leader of a country looks like


            Not invoking Godwins law here. Its just the best example of an oath to someone in power
            Better example would be Gates pledge to Obama.... Oh never mind, its only nefarious when the GOP does it, sorry forgot.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by astralis View Post
              a President asking for loyalty from multiple Justice officials in the context of a Justice investigation about his administration....rings no alarm bells with you?
              Comey as he testified before Congress that he repeatedly told Trump he wasn't under investigation so that rational is unsupported.

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              • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                Better example would be Gates pledge to Obama.... Oh never mind, its only nefarious when the GOP does it, sorry forgot.
                Gates pledge was as a holdover from the previous administration stating that he would not leak, Keep his disagreements private and if he couldn't he would leave. This a pledge from a Cabinet head that he would support the new administration that he was working with. It was also given freely, without being asked.

                You don't see the difference in that and a President asking non cabinet members to as Astralis put "asking for loyalty from multiple Justice officials in the context of a Justice investigation about his administration".

                As for "Nefarious". I've been a Republican since 1981. Voted in every election since and only voted for a non republican twice. I voted against Palin, not for Obama. And Against Trump, not for Clinton. I refuse to support the party when they nominate batshit crazy, inexperienced people

                In Gates own words

                Last edited by Gun Grape; 11 Feb 18,, 00:01.

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                • Originally posted by zraver View Post
                  Better example would be Gates pledge to Obama.... Oh never mind, its only nefarious when the GOP does it, sorry forgot.
                  For one thing, the president is commander in chief at DoD. He's not lawyer in chief at Justice.

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                  • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                    Both sides had their rails greased
                    And the fact that either the Democrats have joined Paul Ryan as samples of spineless beings or they have lost their collective heads. Producing a budget was in the interest of Republicans, not Democrats. Labelling the Republicans as definit hypocrits while opposing this budget was in the interest of Democrats. Holding the budget hostage while trying to extract somethig for DREAMERS was in the interest of Democrats and DREAMERS. Now the Dems have absolutely no leg to negotiate on behalf of the DREAMERS.

                    One may be cynical enough to think that the Democrats do not care about the DREAMERS, they only want to show the Republicans as heartless monsters once the March deadline passes. However, that approach will not give them the Mid term boost they want.
                    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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                    • Now a majority of Americans believe President Obama illegally surveilled the Trump Campaign.
                      https://www.investors.com/politics/e...-ibdtipp-poll/
                      Last edited by surfgun; 11 Feb 18,, 02:32.

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                      • Originally posted by surfgun View Post
                        Now a majority of Americans believe President Obama illegally surveilled the Trump Campaign.
                        https://www.investors.com/politics/e...-ibdtipp-poll/
                        Most Americans also feel that DREAMERS should stay and that Trump is doing a piss poor job. What should we do about that?
                        "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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                        • Originally posted by citanon View Post
                          For one thing, the president is commander in chief at DoD. He's not lawyer in chief at Justice.
                          Actually he is... all executive power in every executive agency devolves from the President per the Constitution.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by antimony View Post
                            Most Americans also feel that DREAMERS should stay and that Trump is doing a piss poor job. What should we do about that?
                            “Dreaming” about killing Americans.
                            http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ed-Boston.html

                            Comment


                            • Just giving American druggies what they want.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Gun Grape View Post
                                Just giving American druggies what they want.
                                Drugs stepped on by the killer Fentanyl? Kills druggies dead.

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