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Thread: 2018 American Political Scene

  1. #316
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    Pretty ridiculous to compare spontaneous/voluntary displays of patriotism to what Trump's asking for.
    That's not an argument. That's "so you're saying we should organize our society along the lines of lobsters."

    Statement: I, GVChamp, think we should have a military parade on the 4th of July. It's cool. Did you see how cool that Bastille Day parade in France is?
    Statement: I, Donald Trump, think we should have a military parade on the 4th of July. It's cool. Did you see how cool that Bastille Day parade in France is?

    These are utterly identical statements. If Trump is obviously doing it for his ego, then I am obviously doing it for my ego. And because I obviously cannot being do it for my ego, the assumption that Trump is doing it for personal ego is wrong. You are asserting something with no evidence, just your gut feeling.

    Your gut feeling is not an objective fact.


    Again, that's leaving aside that politicians do slap their names across stupid projects all the time because they want to boost their name, so if you are going to use this stupid logic, you better damn well use the next time someone says "we should have X like they have in France," whether "X" be "healthcare system" or "train" or "buses" or whatever else.

    And if you reason this away because you think Politician Y is just totally a committed statesman, are you interested in my Nevada beachfront property? Trust me, I'm losing money on this deal. #hopeandchange
    Last edited by GVChamp; 09 Feb 18, at 16:35.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  2. #317
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    These are utterly identical statements. If Trump is obviously doing it for his ego, then I am obviously doing it for my ego. And because I obviously cannot being do it for my ego, the assumption that Trump is doing it for personal ego is wrong. You are asserting something with no evidence, just your gut feeling.
    You're right in that you don't have an ego which is why you don't have a jet.
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  3. #318
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    GV:

    If you want to make yourself understood, you have a keyboard, you have fingers, you know words, so go ahead and spit out whatever it is you're trying to say in the first place, instead of layering on some faux intellectualism afterward arguing against an imaginary point you perceive somebody made.

    4th of July celebrations, fireworks, Memorial Day events, etc. are examples of participatory, community-led displays of patriotism. That's what "those fireworks we shot off in 2015" were.

    Parading missiles and tanks and fighter jets is not the same thing. It's a display of military might.

  4. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by GVChamp View Post
    Statement: I, GVChamp, think we should have a military parade on the 4th of July. It's cool. Did you see how cool that Bastille Day parade in France is?
    Statement: I, Donald Trump, think we should have a military parade on the 4th of July. It's cool. Did you see how cool that Bastille Day parade in France is?

    These are utterly identical statements. If Trump is obviously doing it for his ego, then I am obviously doing it for my ego. And because I obviously cannot being do it for my ego, the assumption that Trump is doing it for personal ego is wrong. You are asserting something with no evidence, just your gut feeling.
    I agree the statements are identical but the people in who's mouths they are put are not the same. I know little about you - to me you seem generally sensible but that's it but Trump is an egotist President deeply compromised by Moscow. In his mouth the same words mean something different than in yours; it is the context. In the same way the same person can say the same thing but mean something entirely different within different contexts and with body language or facial expressions.

    Would anyone who didn't applaud his military parade or went to their knees be 'traitors'? I am not a fan of Ukrainian military parades - waste of money in my view, though it is perhaps good that the public sees our allies march in it as well. If you are of the view that Trump is a narcissist then his desire for a military parade has to be taken in the context of his narcissism.
    Last edited by snapper; 09 Feb 18, at 18:47.

  5. #320
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    But Trumps not talking about having a military parade on the 4th of July or Veterans day.
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  6. #321
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    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...st-ever-400988

    “This is the stupidest thing to happen to Congress in three weeks,” said one Senate GOP aide. “This is even more stupid than the name of the new Kardashian baby [Stormi]. This is dumber than a screen door on a submarine. This is even stupider than the kid who didn’t recognize Justin Timberlake at the Super Bowl.”

    LOL. The Pelosi Paul clown cart is a great ride.

    A lot of Republicans are empathizing with Rand Paul's neighbor today.

  7. #322
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Paul has a point. Republicans took control of the House in 2011, and eventually the Senate with the mandate of being a responsible steward of the taxpayer's money, to limit the growth of government, practicing fiscal discipline, reining in deficits and trying to balance budgets, etc.

    And he's right. The Republicans are hypocrites, through and through.

  8. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    Paul has a point. Republicans took control of the House in 2011, and eventually the Senate with the mandate of being a responsible steward of the taxpayer's money, to limit the growth of government, practicing fiscal discipline, reining in deficits and trying to balance budgets, etc.

    And he's right. The Republicans are hypocrites, through and through.
    Orrrrrr what is appropriate in 2018 is different than what was appropriate in 2011.

    Oh, and BTW guys, have you noticed that we actually have a budget now? :D

    The main worry for the economy going forward is inflation.
    Last edited by citanon; 09 Feb 18, at 23:55.

  9. #324
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Nah, it's just hypocrisy - a volte face once they had the White House. There are no exigent circumstances that exist to explain such a complete turnaround on a position that was outwardly doggedly maintained right up to that point. The only explanation is hypocrisy.

  10. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by citanon View Post
    Oh, and BTW guys, have you noticed that we actually have a budget now? :D
    That is rather remarkable. I'm still a little stunned by that news.

    What does the board attribute this miracle to?
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to take rank with those poor, timid spirits who know neither victory nor defeat ~ Theodore Roosevelt

  11. #326
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    What does the board attribute this miracle to?
    the only thing that this is attributable to is the fact that (most) Republicans now want to have a budget or they look like fools. unified control of the government and still can't do a budget?

    of course, citanon's comment there is particularly funny to me because back in 2011, when we actually did need significant further stimulus, the GOP screamed about deficits til their ears went blue. now that the economy is going gangbusters, we just injected some more (not particularly effective) stimulus. in short Ironduke is right; GOP only cares about deficits when they want to use it as a political tool to smash Dems with.

    in any case, this budget IS fairly responsible; sequestration was beyond stupid in the first place. it's the poorly-designed tax bill that's not.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  12. #327
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    John Kelly discussed resigning, but no formal offer

    White House chief of staff John Kelly did not formally tender his resignation to President Donald Trump on Friday, but he did make clear that he would resign if the President wanted him to, a source with knowledge of the matter told CNN.

    Talk of Kelly's viability as chief of staff reached a fever pitch on Friday afternoon amid intense scrutiny surrounding the handling of domestic abuse allegations against White House staff secretary Rob Porter, who resigned Wednesday while denying the allegations against him.
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/09/polit...ign/index.html

    Rachel Brand, 3rd ranking official at Justice Dept., is stepping down

    Rachel Brand, the third-ranking official at the Justice Department, is expected to resign Friday.

    A source familiar with Brand's plans said she is going to accept a job with Walmart. A second source said she is leaving DOJ "because she got a great job."
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/09/polit...gns/index.html

  13. #328
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    On the bright side, we're not talking about Rob Porter.
    TH might have to re-think John Kelly's position as one of the few 'non-awful' Trump appointments after this. He should have been telling Porter to quietly walk away rather than dig in & fight.


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  14. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfella View Post
    TH might have to re-think John Kelly's position as one of the few 'non-awful' Trump appointments after this. He should have been telling Porter to quietly walk away rather than dig in & fight.
    I've never been particularly comfortable with Kelly's immigration stance, to be honest. I included him in the 'non-awful' Trump appointments because he seemed to be a responsible adult. Unlike pretty much all the rest.

    Doesn't matter either way, he'll be gone like all the rest. Mattis will probably be the last one standing, for whatever that's worth.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to take rank with those poor, timid spirits who know neither victory nor defeat ~ Theodore Roosevelt

  15. #330
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    I don't particularly care for Kelly's Forever War outlook with regards to foreign and military policy, and his scare/fear-mongering tactics.

    If nobody considered Trump rawdogging a porn star a week after his kid was born a scandal, this will probably blow over too, and it's onto the next scandal.

    Some more details on the Rachel Brand resignation:

    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...gations-402082
    The relentless chaos has prompted some senior officials to leave the administration in recent weeks. The latest is Rachel Brand, the number three official at the Justice Department, who resigned on Friday to join Wal-Mart, telling friends that she was concerned that her association with the Trump administration could hurt her reputation.

    “She is very smart, accomplished, and talented, and wants to protect her career,” said one Brand associate.
    I certainly don't blame her for not wanting anything to do with the drama she'd be forced into if Rosenstein gets fired. Good move on her part to GTFO. At least the next ASG will be walking into that minefield with eyes wide open.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 10 Feb 18, at 02:16.

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