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Thread: 2018 American Political Scene

  1. #1771
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    I think we have been through this before.

    My Buick Enclave has sensors and cameras up the wazoo, a great crash test score, its own Wifi network, bluetooth, Carplay, GPS, predictive maintenance capabilities and dozen other technologies that were not dreamt of in 1965. It also runs on unleaded gasoline.

    I have every expectations that all or most of this is going to continue working just fine for a 5-8 years I will keep this car.

    You can keep whatever outdated technology you have under the pretext of servicing it yourself while the rest of the world moves on.
    I take it you don't work on cars. I do happen to work on them as a hobby and have done so since 14 years old. That now makes it 41 years of knowledge gained on them and their systems. Currently have 10 cars from 1965-2018.

    If you are going to keep your car for 5-8 years you should be fine. Now could one keep a newer car for 20 years. Yes, you could from the mechanical point of view. The larger question is how well the electronics, the computer control systems, and other technologies last like touch screens to run your HVAC. I put it to you that they won't last as long as the mechanical parts of the car. When the car gets past 10 years you will have some electrical glitches which will be hard to trace down. Next one of the cars ECUs will fail. It will be replaced but since there is no regression testing done afterwards then one of the older left behind ECUs will fail. If a car has six ECUs, and many do, then you will find the new one not playing well with the old ones. Could replace all six while you hand over your wallet. They will all work then but at what cost? A friend is getting his five year old Ford bought back by Ford for precisely this reason.

    Then how long does a touch screen last? The new Honda Civic uses a touch screen to control the HVAC system. God awful. Now I had to buy my wife a new car because hers was stolen three weeks ago. Super reliable, one ECU, mechanically easy to work on, but could have used a paint job. My requirements were very specific. No touch screen. Standard three dial control of HVAC. No wifi. GPS that can be added by me using a sandisk. Standard size tires with no extra size rims typical and expensive. Easy to work on by me. The dealer was surprised when I didn't take the car out for a test drive but instead tore it apart front to back and top to bottom mechanically.

    Now you said that the Colonel could keep his outdated technology and would probably say the same to me. I put it to you that the you have it backwards. Some technology is truly useful and some is far too much. The newest and greatest in a car truly isn't needed by a capable individual. The fact that the Colonel and I can get by with less is more a reflection on our capabilities and our understanding as to what is really important. Your complete reliance on technology would be indicative of your possible lack of capabilities. I'd rather rely on my skill and capabilities first before relying on technology. Technology is there if we need it but if you don't have any capabilities or skills then what do you do?

  2. #1772
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    I can understand the manufacturer's POV to some extent. They have to make a profit too but I cannot and will tolerate supporting a company that deliberately sabotage perfectly working equipment just to make you buy new stuff.

    Case in point. APPLE deliberately slowing down their IPHONES through their OS just because the battery was getting old.
    Most definitely agree about building in pre-programed obsolescence.

    351? I have a 302 in mine. Really, really, really debated putting a 351 in but couldn't justify the price and the hours needed.
    Being 100% stock it has the standard 289-2V engine. If you have a 302 then that has to be a transplanted engine as the original 65s had only the 289, a few the 260, and then the 200 and 170 six bangers. If a 351W that needed to be rebuilt then I know your point. I just had a 390 rebuilt and that was $2400 with me doing the removal, breakdown, and install.

  3. #1773
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    If you have a 302 then that has to be a transplanted engine
    It was. I bought it that way. Price was too good. $10,000 Cdn in 1982. Think I put in another $20K since then. I know. I know. I will never get my money back out of it but the hours of trying to figure out things tearing it apart and the dreaming about the 351 (like I said, I really, really, really debated with myself).

  4. #1774
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post

    Now you said that the Colonel could keep his outdated technology and would probably say the same to me. I put it to you that the you have it backwards. Some technology is truly useful and some is far too much. The newest and greatest in a car truly isn't needed by a capable individual. The fact that the Colonel and I can get by with less is more a reflection on our capabilities and our understanding as to what is really important. Your complete reliance on technology would be indicative of your possible lack of capabilities. I'd rather rely on my skill and capabilities first before relying on technology. Technology is there if we need it but if you don't have any capabilities or skills then what do you do?
    Gotta disagree, same argument I made with Matt about navigation systems vs maps while traveling.

    Spent my USMC career using maps as a Forward Observer, so no one can accuse me of having a lack of capabilities when it comes to navigation but I wouldn't take a long trip without my cars nav system. Its easier, faster and more efficient.

    Instead of sitting at the table with maps laid out and calculating distance with a compass or string, and trying to figure out the best/fastest/shortest way to reach my destination. I turn the vehicle on type in my destination address and the system automatically gives me the 3 best routs to follow. Pick which one I want and take off. When I start to get hungry, I can have it search for restaurants within 50 miles. When i start to get sleepy It will do the same for hotels. As I approach a large city, ti updates and gives me up to the minute traffic reports and calculates detours on the fly. It tells me when to change lanes to make an upcoming turn. And if I miss the exit for some reason, it calculates how to get back on my route. Worth every penny when driving through places like Huston Tx or Atlanta Ga. As you said its about understanding what is important. To me Time is important and the tech saves a lot of time.

    Other things I like in modern vehicles are the camera systems and most important the zoned a/c.
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  5. #1775
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Versus View Post
    I, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

    Where is the issue?
    DoD Directive 5210.66

    Deadly force is justified only under conditions of necessity and may be used only when lesser means cannot be reasonably employed or have failed and the risk of death or serious bodily harm to innocent persons is not increased by its use
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  6. #1776
    Resident Curmudgeon Military Professional Gun Grape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
    DoD Directive 5210.66

    Deadly force is justified only under conditions of necessity and may be used only when lesser means cannot be reasonably employed or have failed and the risk of death or serious bodily harm to innocent persons is not increased by its use
    falls under "according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice"
    Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?

  7. #1777
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    I take it you don't work on cars. I do happen to work on them as a hobby and have done so since 14 years old. That now makes it 41 years of knowledge gained on them and their systems. Currently have 10 cars from 1965-2018.

    If you are going to keep your car for 5-8 years you should be fine. Now could one keep a newer car for 20 years. Yes, you could from the mechanical point of view. The larger question is how well the electronics, the computer control systems, and other technologies last like touch screens to run your HVAC. I put it to you that they won't last as long as the mechanical parts of the car. When the car gets past 10 years you will have some electrical glitches which will be hard to trace down. Next one of the cars ECUs will fail. It will be replaced but since there is no regression testing done afterwards then one of the older left behind ECUs will fail. If a car has six ECUs, and many do, then you will find the new one not playing well with the old ones. Could replace all six while you hand over your wallet. They will all work then but at what cost? A friend is getting his five year old Ford bought back by Ford for precisely this reason.

    Then how long does a touch screen last? The new Honda Civic uses a touch screen to control the HVAC system. God awful. Now I had to buy my wife a new car because hers was stolen three weeks ago. Super reliable, one ECU, mechanically easy to work on, but could have used a paint job. My requirements were very specific. No touch screen. Standard three dial control of HVAC. No wifi. GPS that can be added by me using a sandisk. Standard size tires with no extra size rims typical and expensive. Easy to work on by me. The dealer was surprised when I didn't take the car out for a test drive but instead tore it apart front to back and top to bottom mechanically.

    Now you said that the Colonel could keep his outdated technology and would probably say the same to me. I put it to you that the you have it backwards. Some technology is truly useful and some is far too much. The newest and greatest in a car truly isn't needed by a capable individual. The fact that the Colonel and I can get by with less is more a reflection on our capabilities and our understanding as to what is really important. Your complete reliance on technology would be indicative of your possible lack of capabilities. I'd rather rely on my skill and capabilities first before relying on technology. Technology is there if we need it but if you don't have any capabilities or skills then what do you do?
    Its awesome that you can make a value judgement of my capabilities while sitting at a computer and looking at my post. Good for you.

    The simple fact is that the world is moving forward. If I go to a new country and have to drive I would not rely on maps and a compass to get around, I would use a GPS. Automotive technoogy is already far behind what is possible. Touchscreens, mobile WIFI and GPS appeared more than a decade ago but only now is making their way into higher end cars. I work hard daily to make technology more easily available to everyone and make their lives better. You are welcome to continue using the archaic systems you have, we will do with better stuff.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  8. #1778
    Senior Contributor Oracle's Avatar
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    Colonel & tbm3fan, I know you guys are muscle car fans and most old products. Those were from a different age, and those products were far better than what we have today. I have a National Panasonic Tape Recorder that still works, but there are no cassettes available. I do not even see shops selling CDs. I think we all are confusing products of the past with technology of today. Your kids, if they're interested, would learn how to fix a car seeing you fix it, but their kids would aim to buy a flying car. Technology and life, both would have moved very far. Both sides are correct from their respective POV as of today, but no one wins this argument. Change is the only constant.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles!

    Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain!

  9. #1779
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    My arguement is I am not going to spend 3 times my purchase price for something I can do myself in 10 minutes. TESLA is demanding $10,000+ to recertify a car for a fender bender and that does not include fixing the fender itself which is well above $5K at an authorized repair shop, something that I could fix for under $2K by picking up a 2nd hand fender in a junk yard. If you're willing to pay $15,000 for a fender bender, be my guest and all the power to you but I am not going to be held hostage to a company's highway robbery repair schemes.

    I have much better ways of spending $15K.

    When I buy something, I am the one who decides to stop using it, not the company forcing me to pay more to upgrade or to pay to continue to use my purchase just because they say so.
    Last edited by WABs_OOE; 09 Nov 18, at 08:47.

  10. #1780
    Senior Contributor Versus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Yes, I do bother to listen to them. They tell me that you are fed bromides each cycle along with some social conservatives scraps, which keeps you hungry for more.
    In regard of your story of technological progress and all that progressive bonanza.

    In 1983, Yugoslavia initiated an advanced fighter program. The future combat aircraft was supposed to be 4th gen aircraft, with all kinds of bells and whistles integrated in it and it included voice commands which was pretty awesome idea at the time. The project was so advanced that it could easily make jobs for the entire country, pushing the best and brightest minds to the limit. It was supposed to have its maiden flight at the beginning of the 90es. The factory that was supposed to make it was located at the city of Mostar in Bosnia.

    This is how Mostar looked at the time of its scheduled maiden flight.

    This program and many others, was destroyed by folks whom “wanted the jerbs”, not by the engineers that had “the jerbs”. Those engineers fled the country as the “jerbs seeking rednecks” were coming from the mountains in order to settle the score from the WW2 and they didn't care about the advancements in technology or high paying “jerbs” that projects like this could make. No, their mindset wasn't like that at all. They are not thinking on that level at all.
    For the Croats, their mind is externally controlled by the Vatican and Vatican has its agenda. That agenda is to destroy Orthodox Christianity and Serbs as Orthodox Christians are the evil itself. The teachings that are poured into their brains are summed up in a saying :” That Croat must hate the Serb more than a Muslim, because Muslim is non christian but the Serb is anti-christian”. That is why the Catholic Croats made the alliance with the Bosnian Muslims against Serbs. Muslims had their own agenda, they were dreaming of the times when the Ottoman Empire was the top dog and they as Muslims were superior beings that ruled the rest of the kufar's. Serbs had a schizophrenic mindset. On one side, they were saddled by guilt for being Serbs (thanks to the containment strategy that was implemented by the UK) and were desperately trying to assume a new identity as Yugoslav's, communists, beavers, rocks, etc anything but the Serbs. On the other hand, the survivors of the WW2 genocide, had a historical memory of that genocide and that memory made them assume the attitude that says “F..ck that, we are not going to be slaughtered like than” so they took the initiative and struck first. That is why the Serbs in Bosnia are labeled as aggressors, not because they were aggressors but because they didn't wanted to comply with the plan ( to simply vanish in one way or another).

    So in that setting, the most advanced and the enlighten, the a-nationalist communists, the ones that were making the advanced fighter, were labeled as enemies from all three sides and were quickly dispatched from the game. That is the story of the Federal Army. It had more guns than all three sides but it was useless, because it had no meaning and no goal.

    Of course, Milosevic and Tudjman took the advantage of that situation and used it as a mean to stay in power, trough most despicable manipulation and shady dealings and were in general using the turmoil to gain wealth. The only difference was that Tudjman, was far more sane than the Milosevic so he actually did something good for Croatia, by finally eliminating the heathen Serbs from it. The fact that now they are having problems with Muslim migrants that are pouring into Croatia trough Bosnia, is a natural consequence of removing Serbs that were placed in Croatia for exactly the same reason, some 500 years ago. To prevent Muslim incursion into Austrian empire and to serve as a human shield. But, Serbs are gone, now the Croats can have all the fun with the Rapestanis.

    The moral of my story is, don't get fooled by the urban progressive bonanza, you are in minority and you are highly dependent on those Americans that want to keep their “jerbs”. Because if you, the city folks, think that the progress is, driving the Tesla's while Tweeting on a Iphone 200 while drinking the soy milk that was produced in the US mainland, by a cheap immigrant workers that replaced the midlander's, you better think again. Because if that is your plan, beware of the pitchforks, they will be coming your way.
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    Last edited by Versus; 09 Nov 18, at 11:14.

  11. #1781
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WABs_OOE View Post
    As per your example of 1000 plants a day. Wonderful. I wholeheartily agree with it. But give the farmer the tools to fix things on the spot. Planting and harvesting seasons don't wait for things to be repair at an authorized depot.
    I understand Canada has a window of just 8 weeks from planting to harvest of wheat.

    Anything that messes with that isn't going to sell or because there is time pressure is it a sellers market ?

    I'm sick of companies seeing us consumers and users as nothing more than cash cows to drain of us every penny we got. I can understand paying something of value that I want but I do not understand you forcing me to pay 3 times my purchase price for a repair I can do myself but then using the software to disable my device because of an unauthorized repair.
    It started the day companies valued shareholders above customers. The customer is taken for granted.

    The best people can do is not buy from companies with such practices. Give it time, if enough people start to do that then companies will realise to keep their share prices up that customers have to play along.

    That is why farmers have resorted to software hacks to get their machines running during planting and harvesting seasons.
    Great maybe Canada does not have any DMCA equivalent that would make that illegal.

    Added: I know how to cook a mean steak and scalopped potatoes. I can tell how long a piece of beef has been aged and I am extremely creative with tobassco sauce and local vegetables. Out in the field, you're forced to be creative if you want any taste in your food. And while at home, you start learning what you can bring with you on deployment to make the MREs tolerable.
    Know anything about jerky ?

    I'd love to be able to make my own.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 09 Nov 18, at 10:51.

  12. #1782
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    My generation, well, there are some who's into your business, but that population is small. The millenials know nothing of that sort, and would happily sell a worn out daddy's Mustang for a new Tesla. The things is, you realise it now or never, automation is creepily reducing human labour with efficiency that just cannot be matched. In the last 5 years of my work-life, I had to let go 10s of people in multiple projects, because upper management wanted productivity @ every dollar spent. Automation replaced repetitive manual labour.
    Earlier things could be maintained, it isn't cost effective to do so these days. We would reuse & recycle then now its throw away and buy. Maintenance is near impossible unless you come from a country where these things are made so there are 3rd party usually ex-factory people with those skills.

    I will give you another example. In my dad's/your time, women here in India used to take care of the household (cooking, cleaning, laundry etc), and men took care of the costs (working). Since my time, things have changed. Men after a day's work, started getting interested in cooking, and would readily cook for their wives and friends. But, women, since they started working, has never ever bothered to peep into the kitchen. I am not trying to give it a men vs women outlook or work etc nor am I sexist. It's how life has changed. I go to the fish market, I see women buying fish, but not the Catla head. I buy the extra head, and cook awesome curry. Women it seems, have forgotten how to cook. I see women surviving on Noodles and bread. Well, I remember calling up my mom to balance the spices that would go into the goat curry. So, based on your arguments with Antimony, your views with respect to the millenials is well......not very correct.
    How many famous women chefs d you know ? i have this impression its dominated by men

    What we see in Sci-Fi movies today is what will become the reality 20 years from now. I know and I am scared what today's generation would do to survive. Particularly because India is the second most populous nation, and I don't see the enthusiasm amongst kids to study and excel.
    It's funny how westerners used to say and still say the same thing.

    There is actually no argument about automation, in every field we know someone or the other is inventing something that makes the job easier.

    Want to transplant 1000 plants in the soil? How much time will it take? 1 whole day? You have the 'paper pot transplanter' for that. It's in human nature to reduce effort and be efficient, one can't wish it away.
    In India this would be an advantage. Get 50% odd off agriculture and into something else. In the west the farmers don't make up more than 2% of the population

  13. #1783
    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snapper View Post
    Those with nothing to hide to not hide it.
    Every time i hear this line i cringe because of the people who say it.

    Let's get something straight. You are innocent until proven guilty. That is how it works in free countries.

    What you are saying here is inverting that principle.

    Presuming guilt a priori

    On what grounds ?

    None! if you have to go to street to shout about it. You ain't got a thing. Not a damn thing. Or he'd be facing the music long ago. Yes ?

    But he can pardon himself so i don't know how this will shake out. Looks like a dead end but it will be good grist for the press.

    Trumpkin has been laundering dirty Muscovite money for years - in 2008 Trumpkin Jnr said "Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets . . . We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia." Trumpkin Snr was first invited to Moscow in the dying days of the USSR. If he has nothing to hide why not make it public? And if you think the Muscovite Mafia launders that much money through your businesses and then you walk away scot free "Nice doing business with you chaps..." you should be at a picnic for Teddy Bears. They own him.
    If its up to him, then he need not do anything

    Now Sessions is gone too... well we all knew it was coming but what did Sessions do wrong? Only this; recused himself from the Muscovite Inquiry oversight. He was not sufficiently 'loyal' to Trumpkin rather than the rule of law - much like Comey strangely. His replacement with this appointee who has had no Congress over view - Whitacker or something who is a former TV pundit spouting pro Trumpkin lines - instead of Rosenstein, the Deputy AG, as would surely be more normal - only shows that Trumpkin is still massively scarred of the Mueller Inquiry - and rightly so with his former henchmen spilling the beans.
    Let me know when they have something actionable. I expect another two more years of this legal gymnastics and still more hot air. Some lawyers are going to make out well here.

    As for the Tesla latest gadget high fix price versus the reliable fix yourself gadget or vehicle I am keen on sailing as a pastime and learned how to weld this year as I bought a steel yacht. When you sail anywhere - apart from out of the harbour for an afternoon or something - you carry spares of everything - from sail repairs kits to ropes, to electictrical bits and engine bits and filters. You have backup systems if possible too - I know we have satnav etc nowadays but a sextant (which I know how to use) is still a good back up. We have electric bilge pumps but still have hand powered pumps. If any one or both of one system that you need and you cannot bodge a temporary repair so it works till you get to port you could potentially lose your yacht - and more. Sure I may not be able fix anything that I may need perfectly - a repaired sail is never as strong as one that has not torn in the first place and pump with an old washer is not as good as one with a new washer but if it does not have to be. Yachts are a continual maintaince job - and every yacht has it's own quirks that you have to learn - it's 'character' - the engine filters always need changing or the heads keeping blocking up - and you learn the knacks and can after a while guess what the problem is. It will probably take me years to fully know Vikki! (short for 'Victory!') as I do not get that much time to sail her. But once I do - well then I would feel confident to take her anywhere and be able to deal with whatever problem she developed. You have to know a yacht almost personally to diagnose and at least half fix what problem she has before she is totally yours. Just my view as a sailing enthusiast.
    Good stuff. We had a women officers team circumnavigate the globe recently. Tarini.
    Last edited by Double Edge; 09 Nov 18, at 12:01.

  14. #1784
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Edge View Post
    Know anything about jerky ?

    I'd love to be able to make my own.
    Quite easy actually. It's best to use a dehydrator but you can use an oven in a pinch.

    I like to use the cut we call a London Broil. It is a cut known as a top round steak. Here is how I make it.

    1. Get 3 to 5 pounds of beef and cut across the grain in thin strips.

    2. Place in a plastic bag or air tight plastic container with marinade in a refrigerator for at least 24 hours. there are a wide range of marinades you can make. Make sure there is some acid in the marinade which will help breakdown/tenderize the meat. i like to make marinades with Worcestershire Sauce, dry mustard, onion powder, garlic powder & brown sugar or Soy sauce, Teriyaki, ginger, garlic powder, onion powder. Its really anything you want to help breakdown and flavor.

    3. After 24 hours remove from bag and pat dry. Discard the marinade.

    4. Place the beef strips on the dehumidifier racks making sure there is no overlap on the pieces.

    5. Set the temperature on dehumidifier or oven to 180 degrees F/83 Celsius.

    6. Let meat rest for at least 8 hours.

    The jerky is ready when it is stiff and can be bent with some resistance.

    Jerky can be place in plastic bags and kept frozen for up to 3 months.

    And with that we all need to return to AMERICAN POLITICS!!!
    “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
    Mark Twain

  15. #1785
    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=antimony;1047172]

    The simple fact is that the world is moving forward. If I go to a new country and have to drive I would not rely on maps and a compass to get around, I would use a GPS. Automotive technoogy is already far behind what is possible. Touchscreens, mobile WIFI and GPS appeared more than a decade ago but only now is making their way into higher end cars. I work hard daily to make technology more easily available to everyone and make their lives better.
    Ah, a claim I have heard many times. We work daily to make tech easier and lives better. Sometimes you do and sometimes you don't.


    You are welcome to continue using the archaic systems you have, we will do with better stuff.
    You know how I was able to judge your capabilities by the sentence highlighted which is the second time you made such a comment. I am very able to handle today's tech if needed, which isn't most of the time necessary for my life or anyone else's life, in the big scheme of things. However, I will state that I have the asset of being far more backwards compatible.

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