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Thread: Shithole Countries

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    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Shithole Countries

    President Trump grew frustrated with lawmakers Thursday in the Oval Office when they floated restoring protections for immigrants from Haiti, El Salvador and African countries as part of a bipartisan immigration deal, according to two people briefed on the meeting.

    “Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?” Trump said, according to these people, referring to African countries and Haiti. He then suggested that the United States should instead bring more people from countries like Norway, whose prime minister he met Wednesday.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.e09cb93e2fa3

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    Turbanator Senior Contributor Double Edge's Avatar
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    A cry of frustration ?

    He can't do anything about it

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    “Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?” Trump said, according to these people,
    Hearsay gossip, with no proof that he actually said it.

    But I would still comfortably bet a couple years salary that he said those exact words, with gusto.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to take rank with those poor, timid spirits who know neither victory nor defeat ~ Theodore Roosevelt

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    Why should illiterate people from corrupt, poverty, disease and war ridden countries who will spend the rest of their lives on welfare be prioritized above those who would add to the national wealth and prosperity? It is a legit question. 20 trillion in debt, stagnant social welfare spending low end wages that haven't kept pace with inflation. Adding more unskilled labor doesn't help anyone here. Government's compact is with its citizens first and foremost.

    Double Edge, actually he can and did. Some in Congress are trying to reverse his decision via rewriting the law. If that is what Congress decides, he's stuck since he said he would sign any bill that also had the 4 pillars. However, its a legit question.

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    joe,

    Hearsay gossip, with no proof that he actually said it.
    WH is not denying it, which is as good as confirmation that he said it.

    z,

    Why should illiterate people from corrupt, poverty, disease and war ridden countries who will spend the rest of their lives on welfare be prioritized above those who would add to the national wealth and prosperity? It is a legit question. 20 trillion in debt, stagnant social welfare spending low end wages that haven't kept pace with inflation. Adding more unskilled labor doesn't help anyone here. Government's compact is with its citizens first and foremost.
    funny how this is the EXACT argument used by people to ban Chinese immigration in the 1880s and later reduce any non-Western Europe immigration in the 1920s.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924

    nothing is new under the sun.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post

    z,



    funny how this is the EXACT argument used by people to ban Chinese immigration in the 1880s and later reduce any non-Western Europe immigration in the 1920s.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924

    nothing is new under the sun.
    We had welfare in the 1880' and 1920's ?

    I made no reference to color or race. Lots of non-white countries with oodles of people who would be an asset to the country. If your reason for moving to America is to suck at the public teat, you are not an asset.

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    I made no reference to color or race. Lots of non-white countries with oodles of people who would be an asset to the country. If your reason for moving to America is to suck at the public teat, you are not an asset.
    plenty of the immigration exclusion arguments didn't, either, focusing on the "illiterate people from corrupt, poverty, disease and war ridden countries" part. people didn't NEED to hate on Irish or Chinese or Polish or Italian immigration because they were outright racists (although usually they were)-- they could easily state truthfully that those immigrants just came from sh*thole countries ready to take jobs from good hard-working Americans.

    all in the noble defense of American labor, too. you know, adding more unskilled labor doesn't help anyone here.

    and wonder why Trump picked Norway, strange, innit?

    having said all this, I am fully aware that a country can pick and choose whom it wishes to accept. however, the US was and is largely powered by immigration from sh*thole countries, because the beating heart of US idealism is the idea that all men are created equal and that anyone can achieve the American dream.

    great job going from "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door." to
    “Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?”

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    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    more detail about it now:

    http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...aitians-report

    “Why do we need more Haitians?” Trump said, according to The Washington Post. “Take them out.”

    seriously, eff this guy.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post

    great job going from "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door." to
    “Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?”
    The tempest tossed (arrived by ship) didn't disembark and say wheres my money. The ones arriving by jet and coyote do. So lets compromise; immigrants and their non-citizen children cant receive public assistance.

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    The tempest tossed (arrived by ship) didn't disembark and say wheres my money. The ones arriving by jet and coyote do. So lets compromise; immigrants and their non-citizen children cant receive public assistance.
    interesting how you assume immigrants coming by jet and coyote say "where's my money". my parents and myself arrived by jet to this country, i don't recall ever saying where's my money. i must have missed that in the manual.

    do you have some sort of magic detector to tell the difference between "lots of non-white countries with oodles of people who would be an asset to the country" and those lazy immigrants you claim just suck off the public teat? and are those immigrants still assets if they're stealing jobs from hard-working Americans? hmm.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    interesting how you assume immigrants coming by jet and coyote say "where's my money". my parents and myself arrived by jet to this country, i don't recall ever saying where's my money. i must have missed that in the manual.
    Different era then. Right now 52% of immigrant families use some form of welfare vs less than 40% for native born families.

    do you have some sort of magic detector to tell the difference between "lots of non-white countries with oodles of people who would be an asset to the country" and those lazy immigrants you claim just suck off the public teat? and are those immigrants still assets if they're stealing jobs from hard-working Americans? hmm.
    A couple of them; literacy, math skills, vaccination records, job skills... Low skilled illegal immigrants steal jobs and depress wages in several industries. Lets not conflate issues.

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    Different era then. Right now 52% of immigrant families use some form of welfare vs less than 40% for native born families.
    "using some form of welfare" is not "let's move to America to suck off the public teat" or saying "where's my money".

    my parents came from 1980s Taiwan, which was a "shithole" back then when compared to the US. they were middle-class/upper-middle class for Taiwan, but came here with hardly any money to begin with. and Taiwan back then was certainly "corrupt" and had plenty of "poverty" in the "corrupt, poverty, disease and war ridden countries" part of your equation.

    while my parents didn't use welfare, i certainly had friends' and relatives' parents who did. one of them later on became a millionaire software developer, one of my uncles became a radiologist. one of my friends became a Marine. but because their families used welfare at a point in time and were gasp, immigrants, they were here to suck off the public teat, right?

    the way you assess immigrant worth is poor, as you're speaking in gross generalities. what's next? shall we only accept immigrants from non-shithole countries whose income levels, net worth, and education exceeds that of your average native-born American?

    Low skilled illegal immigrants steal jobs and depress wages in several industries. Lets not conflate issues.
    if you buy into the idea that a job can be "stolen", then by that definition my parents stole jobs from some native-born electrical engineer, some native-born accountant, and i stole a job from some native-born defense analyst.

    i'm sure my parents depressed wages too, because they increased the labor supply in their respective fields.
    Last edited by astralis; 12 Jan 18, at 03:58.
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    "using some form of welfare" is not "let's move to America to suck off the public teat" or saying "where's my money".

    my parents came from 1980s Taiwan, which was a "shithole" back then when compared to the US. they were middle-class/upper-middle class for Taiwan, but came here with hardly any money to begin with. and Taiwan back then was certainly "corrupt" and had plenty of "poverty" in the "corrupt, poverty, disease and war ridden countries" part of your equation.

    while my parents didn't use welfare, i certainly had friends' and relatives' parents who did. one of them later on became a millionaire software developer, one of my uncles became a radiologist. one of my friends became a Marine. but because their families used welfare at a point in time and were gasp, immigrants, they were here to suck off the public teat, right?

    the way you assess immigrant worth is poor, as you're speaking in gross generalities. what's next? shall we only accept immigrants from non-shithole countries whose income levels, net worth, and education exceeds that of your average native-born American?
    So using personal anecdotes is your answer?

    Immigrants either come here and add to the wealth and culture of the nation or they don't. If they come here and get on welfare they are doing neither. In Minnestota the Somali immigrant community has unemployment 3x the state average and has sent dozens if not hundreds of young men off to jihad. Compare that to the Indian immigrants. Both brown, one is thriving one isn't.



    if you buy into the idea that a job can be "stolen", then by that definition my parents stole jobs from some native-born electrical engineer, some native-born accountant, and i stole a job from some native-born defense analyst.
    Stealing jobs= working for less than the going rate or under the table so the employer can avoid taxes.

    i'm sure my parents depressed wages too, because they increased the labor supply in their respective fields.
    Doubtful, your parents got here before everyone had a college degree. People who are good at math are always needed.

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    Defense ProfessionalSenior Contributor tbm3fan's Avatar
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    I am curious, since Z and I are most likely on opposite ends of the divide, but is "shithole countries" politically incorrect now? I, too have used the term. However, I don't see how Taiwan became a shithole country as it certainly doesn't seem to fit. Besides the fact it wasn't even mentioned. On the other hand North Korea, Yemen, Somalia, Haiti, Sudan and a host of others do fit the bill as they will likely never change in 100 years on their own accord.

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    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbm3fan View Post
    However, I don't see how Taiwan became a shithole country as it certainly doesn't seem to fit.
    It was as poor as some African countries in 1950.

    Besides the fact it wasn't even mentioned. On the other hand North Korea, Yemen, Somalia, Haiti, Sudan and a host of others do fit the bill as they will likely never change in 100 years on their own accord.
    North Korea was richer than South Korea at partition. Yemen was never on the level of a GCC country, but it ran out of oil.

    A lot of people would have said those in Asian NIC countries would likely be peasants mucking around in rice paddies for 100 years. People used to have theories of the "alien" and "impenetrable" mind of the Easterner, impossible to modernize or educate.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 12 Jan 18, at 05:38.

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