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Thread: Shithole Countries

  1. #61
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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    Was Flake there? It is hard to imagine that he would have been invited.

  2. #62
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    ^ if Trump -didn't- say it, he would have explicitly denied calling Haiti+etc a shithole (which if you carefully read his tweet, he did not do-- "The language used by me at the DACA meeting was tough, but this was not the language used." well, he didn't specify what 'this' was). same with the 2 GOP senators, if it didn't happen then they would simply flatly deny it and call it a falsehood.

    do not recall is a useful out so you're not caught in a lie afterwards if a tape suddenly appears.

    if this really was nothing more than he said, she said, the GOP would be closing ranks around the Prez instead of running away.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    ^ if Trump -didn't- say it, he would have explicitly denied calling Haiti+etc a shithole (which if you carefully read his tweet, he did not do-- "The language used by me at the DACA meeting was tough, but this was not the language used." well, he didn't specify what 'this' was). same with the 2 GOP senators, if it didn't happen then they would simply flatly deny it and call it a falsehood.

    do not recall is a useful out so you're not caught in a lie afterwards if a tape suddenly appears.

    if this really was nothing more than he said, she said, the GOP would be closing ranks around the Prez instead of running away.
    Haiti is a shithole. You wouldn't move there to live, you wouldn't raise your kids there, invest your money there... That doesn't mean Haitians are shitty, but it does mean they are less likely to be a value added immigrant. As for the GOP rallying or not, the open borders crowd doesn't want a secure border and controlled immigration anymore than the Dems do. If you divide it up along pro v anti open borders the anti open borders crowd is rallying round the prez.

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    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    Was Flake there? It is hard to imagine that he would have been invited.
    No Fake was not there

  5. #65
    Senior Contributor surfgun's Avatar
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    It would appear that Dick Durbin has been confused by what may or may not have been said in the past.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j_5Fq5RBgyw

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    This whole thing is a storm in a teacup. The left has been making lots of storms in lots of teacups lately.

    The thing is, is the left winning over America? While During et al have been harping on shitholes and tweets, GOP has tax reform in the bag, the economy is going gang busters, the military is getting revitalized, Russia hacking is becoming a non-story, and more big items are on the agenda. Meanwhile Hollywood has been thoroughly discredited as a moralizing proxy, and half of America are tuning out the media echo chamber circle jerk that is CNN et al.

    Polls seem to show low confidence for Trump, but are they more accurate than last time or even less?

    I know people who have been apolitical for years, who are turning quietly but firmly pro Trump.

    Much bellahoo aside, congressional Democrats have been stunning ineffective at stopping the Trump agenda. What's been stopping legislation has actually been internecine discord in the GOP and picking a bad target in Healthcare. Going forward, is this siege like media environment making the GOP retrench or fracture? It seems the ones who can't stomach Trump are leaving (or dying in poor McCain's case) and the rest is banding together.

    Then you look at the team around Trump. Discipline has kicked in, the adults are in charge, Bannon is crushed, Mulvany has been chastised and fallen in line, the kids have realized they are too soft to play Washington hardball. They are on track for the most drastic and effective and pervasive shift on Federal government policy in decades.

    Compared with what Trump has done in year one Obama looks like a JV team second stringer.

    What I'm getting at is this: while the left has been obsessing about Trump tweets and debating metaphysical unknowable the ground is shifting beneath their feet as team Trump and team GOP are left alone to make seismic, concrete policy changes. Whether by design or accident Trump has created cover and distraction that has resulted in the best window of conservative policy making in decades.

  7. #67
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfgun View Post
    Has anyone actually verified what Dick Durbin claimed? Days have passed with no verification. Dick Durbin historically has not been a credible source of information. I understand the others have stated tough language was used but failed to back up what Dick Durbin has claimed.
    This appears to be an exercise in navel gazing.
    Yeah, I'd say the chance he didn't say "shithole" is really low. Like asty said, "do not recall" is a useful out in politics that isn't a straight denial.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  8. #68
    Senior Contributor Triple C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citanon View Post
    What I'm getting at is this: while the left has been obsessing about Trump tweets and debating metaphysical unknowable the ground is shifting beneath their feet as team Trump and team GOP are left alone to make seismic, concrete policy changes. Whether by design or accident Trump has created cover and distraction that has resulted in the best window of conservative policy making in decades.
    I am going to agree with the passage in bold, and yet add that those policy changes will be the ones that, when their results come to fruition, we will have cause to regret. How long the spree will last the midterms remains to be seen, as Trump has both higher disapproval and lower approval than Obama at that point of his presidency.
    Last edited by Triple C; 15 Jan 18, at 07:18.
    All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
    -Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.

  9. #69
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citanon View Post
    This whole thing is a storm in a teacup. The left has been making lots of storms in lots of teacups lately.

    The thing is, is the left winning over America? While During et al have been harping on shitholes and tweets, GOP has tax reform in the bag, the economy is going gang busters, the military is getting revitalized, Russia hacking is becoming a non-story, and more big items are on the agenda. Meanwhile Hollywood has been thoroughly discredited as a moralizing proxy, and half of America are tuning out the media echo chamber circle jerk that is CNN et al.

    Polls seem to show low confidence for Trump, but are they more accurate than last time or even less?

    I know people who have been apolitical for years, who are turning quietly but firmly pro Trump.

    Much bellahoo aside, congressional Democrats have been stunning ineffective at stopping the Trump agenda. What's been stopping legislation has actually been internecine discord in the GOP and picking a bad target in Healthcare. Going forward, is this siege like media environment making the GOP retrench or fracture? It seems the ones who can't stomach Trump are leaving (or dying in poor McCain's case) and the rest is banding together.

    Then you look at the team around Trump. Discipline has kicked in, the adults are in charge, Bannon is crushed, Mulvany has been chastised and fallen in line, the kids have realized they are too soft to play Washington hardball. They are on track for the most drastic and effective and pervasive shift on Federal government policy in decades.

    Compared with what Trump has done in year one Obama looks like a JV team second stringer.

    What I'm getting at is this: while the left has been obsessing about Trump tweets and debating metaphysical unknowable the ground is shifting beneath their feet as team Trump and team GOP are left alone to make seismic, concrete policy changes. Whether by design or accident Trump has created cover and distraction that has resulted in the best window of conservative policy making in decades.
    citanon,
    Storm in a teacup? When major news magazines question the President’s sanity, call it the worst first-year in history or imply that he’s a big baby (see this week’s The Economist), there’s more than just the hard-right wing’s favorite canard, “liberal bias.”

    The “thing,” as you put is isn’t “is the left winning over America.” Rather, it is, “Can the GOP – and a democratic America – survive Trump?”

    The tax break is no victory for Trump’s base, nor for the typical GOPer. It is very clearly a massive corporate give-away that will add $1.4 trillion to the national debt without producing 1/10th of that in benefits. Typical GOPer tax bill, writ large.

    Are Russia and China laughing behind our backs? That sound you hear when you pull your head, um, I mean “fingers” out isn’t sobbing.

    Did the Hollywood sexual predator scandal arise out of the Trump's pussy grabbing? You betcha.

    When the opinion polls don’t go your way, consider rethinking whether you’re blinded by the right.

    I know people who have been apolitical for years who have finally been motivated to get off their butts and march in protest against Trump. People who had never been to any kinds of demonstration before.

    Much ballyhoo aside, why in the world would Democrats – Congressional or otherwise – do anything to interfere with this historic GOPer implosion? We’re too busy trying to head off the worst disasters.

    What’s been stopping the most poorly thought out, incredibly badly drafted legislation from getting through is a near civil war within the GOP.

    Then you look at Team Trump. Resignation, firing, resignation, firing, indictment … that’s some record.

    What I’m getting at is this: your favorite racist misogynist xenophobe is a disaster, and just about everyone recognizes it but you.
    Trust me?
    I'm an economist!

  10. #70
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    DOR, I think you're exemplifying my point. Look at what you are talking about, and think about what really matters to the average American family. You're so disconnected you can't even see it, so deep in the echochamber it has taken over your reality.
    Last edited by citanon; 15 Jan 18, at 12:27.

  11. #71
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by citanon View Post
    This whole thing is a storm in a teacup.
    By itself, yes. But with so many other things, it's a part of a disturbing pattern of behavior.

    • three times refused to disassociate himself from David Duke, hedging after Duke endorsed him
    • some "very fine people" among the white supremacists at the Charlottesville rally
    • the whole Obama birther bullshit
    • sued and settled twice for discriminating against blacks applying for tenancy
    • fined because his casino managers would remove black card dealers at player request
    • black NFL protestors are "sons of bitches", "fire 'em"
    • Mexicans, "they're rapists"
    • "She probably, maybe she wasn't allowed to have anything to say" on the Muslim Gold Star family at the DNCC
    • saying an American-born judge gave unfair rulings on the Trump University thing because "he’s a Mexican"
    • inciting violence (e.g. 'I'd like to punch him in the face'), then defending supporters of his who assailed black protestors at his rallies

    He's appointed a token black to his Cabinet. But the man is deeply racist, and he's been exploiting some pretty ugly racist undercurrents in society for several years now. He doesn't dog whistle, he just straight up whistles. Racists get the message loud and clear. In particular there was a wave a racist incidents/assaults during the primaries/post-election, and he says "stop it", as if that excuses him, as he clearly incited it. And he goes around with fake backpedals like "the Hispanics/blacks love me" etc., speaking of them as if they're some monolithic group without distinct personalities or characteristics, or individuality.
    Last edited by Ironduke; 15 Jan 18, at 15:09.

  12. #72
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    I see a whole bunch of tempests in teacups. The only actions on that list that would be unquestionably racist would be refusing to rent to black tenants and removing black players, but that's only if you are doing out of personal vendetta: If you are doing out of a customer request, that makes your customers racist, but that doesn't make YOU racist (even if you're committing a crime in trying to discriminate).
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    citanon,
    Storm in a teacup? When major news magazines question the President’s sanity, call it the worst first-year in history or imply that he’s a big baby (see this week’s The Economist), there’s more than just the hard-right wing’s favorite canard, “liberal bias.”

    The “thing,” as you put is isn’t “is the left winning over America.” Rather, it is, “Can the GOP – and a democratic America – survive Trump?”

    The tax break is no victory for Trump’s base, nor for the typical GOPer. It is very clearly a massive corporate give-away that will add $1.4 trillion to the national debt without producing 1/10th of that in benefits. Typical GOPer tax bill, writ large.

    Are Russia and China laughing behind our backs? That sound you hear when you pull your head, um, I mean “fingers” out isn’t sobbing.

    Did the Hollywood sexual predator scandal arise out of the Trump's pussy grabbing? You betcha.

    When the opinion polls don’t go your way, consider rethinking whether you’re blinded by the right.

    .
    you are delusional.

    The 'hard rights favorite canard'.... you exactly proved the point that the main stream media is basically a liberal rag for propaganda. 'Trumps crazy... Trumps got dimensia..... Trumps not fit for office... Trumps a baby' blah blah blah. The political left, thru the main stream media is pushing his removal because they don't like him and trying to cite the fact that he's mentally unstable... and people call the birther movement bull shit? Ya, my candidate lost the election, so lets push a totally made up and bullshit narrative of mental 'fitness' to get him removed because so far we haven't been able to make something up to impeach him with.

    tax break... tell all those employees getting bonus's based on the tax break the companies they work for are giving out that it doesn't help them.

    Russia is laughing alright, at the left and the main stream media who are eating themselves and America whole over this collusion bit. Ya, you really think Putin ever thought he could disrupt American politics and have as much influence as he has??? Not with out the left and the main stream media pushing it beyond hysterics. You bet your ass he's laughing everyday.

    the Hollywood sexual predator scandal..... were did that arise.... from Bill and HRC destroying and burying rape victims... you know, Bill's victims, with zero repercussions.

  14. #74
    Senior Contributor GVChamp's Avatar
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    Russia should be kicking itself in the face right now. The EU is a total freakin' embarrassment. They ran out of bombs attacking Libya. They completely fucked up the financial crisis and put the entire south part of the continent into a decade-long depression, which literally hasn't been seen since the 30s. They let in millions of uneducated refugees, and now are pointlessly trying to sanction Poland over an internal political dispute that affects the other nations not at all.

    Any rational Eastern European nation would be thinking about leaving the EU and NATO...except for Russia is ridiculously corrupt and pointlessly belligerent. If they weren't so god-awful EVIL, Russia would be in a perfect position to reclaim some of its lost prestige. The last decade and a half of Russian policy is a complete own-goal. NATO would be on its last legs if Putin weren't such an idiot.
    "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    Are Russia and China laughing behind our backs? That sound you hear when you pull your head, um, I mean “fingers” out isn’t sobbing.
    Well, then, I guess it's the sound of craping in their pants. A quick google shown that the 38 and 39 GAs are on wartime footing and refugee camps are being prepped. An unhinged Trump bent on war against Kim is not bringing much laughter in both Beijing and Moscow.

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